Am I crazy or are spells uglier in Retail?

[Aucald]

Gul'dan is literally covered head to toe in skulls and bones

https://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/scree...142-guldan.jpg

Which is still a weird choice, IMO. It kind of works for Gul'dan given the givens, but that's more a unique Gul'dan aesthetic as opposed to a generalized Warlock one. I kind of prefer OG Gul'dan from the earlier depictions because he looked more like an actual spellcaster, which was an anomaly given the more brutish and savage aesthetics of the orcish clans - he looked dignified and somehow regal, which is how I Imagine he sees himself:

[username993720]

Skulls are more of a Death Knight thing to be honest, but even still, the old Shadowbolt skull is dumb-looking - it looks like it's giving a toothless and somehow gormless smile.

You do realize Warlocks were quite close to a Death Knight in their deathly themes. And, besides, demonic has a lot of skull associated aspects.

It's a hard thing to provide examples for, sound effects aren't really named. I know monks had a big gong sound.

Really? Didn't know that. I wonder of what abilities.

But the cat sound sticks out to me because I enjoyed hearing it. But these can be added easily with macros as I have done with wild charge to play the pissed off jungle cat sound effect.

I enjoyed that, too.
Helped to convey the badass feline fantasy.

[Aucald]

You do realize Warlocks were quite close to a Death Knight in their deathly themes. And, besides, demonic has a lot of skull associated aspects.

I feel Warlocks as a whole are better suited to having demonic and Fel motifs, especially with the more recent focus on the Legion and their general aesthetic depicted in Legion. Leave the bones and skulls to Death Knights and hone in on green flame, black stone, and demonic corruption.

[username993720]

I feel Warlocks as a whole are better suited to having demonic and Fel motifs, especially with the more recent focus on the Legion and their general aesthetic depicted in Legion. Leave the bones and skulls to Death Knights and hone in on green flame, black stone, and demonic corruption.

Is affliction not a spec within the Warlock?

[Lytrwths]

The spell effects and weapon animations have never been more fluid, smooth and eye pleasing than of how they are in retail. But maybe it is a matter of preference.

[Al Gorefiend]

I feel Warlocks as a whole are better suited to having demonic and Fel motifs, especially with the more recent focus on the Legion and their general aesthetic depicted in Legion. Leave the bones and skulls to Death Knights and hone in on green flame, black stone, and demonic corruption.

Skulls are just the universal symbolism for edgy. Worgen have skulls in their artwork, druids and hunters have (animal) skulls. Shaman get some skulls, you know warriors love their skulls too!

And of course the skulls and jolly rogers of Rogues

[Aucald]

Is affliction not a spec within the Warlock?

It is, but when I think "Warlock" it isn't the Affliction that comes to mind - it's generally a mix of Destruction and Demonology. You know, spewing out Fel fire and summoning demons to wreak havoc. I've always felt the Affliction spec was a bit tacked on to the Warlock kit, which may be part and parcel of why it has been overhauled and changed so many times in WoW's history.

[loras]

It is, but when I think "Warlock" it isn't the Affliction that comes to mind - it's generally a mix of Destruction and Demonology. You know, spewing out Fel fire and summoning demons to wreak havoc. I've always felt the Affliction spec was a bit tacked on to the Warlock kit, which may be part and parcel of why it has been overhauled and changed so many times in WoW's history.

They used to be much more varied though, eith voidwalkers representing shadow and fire delving inti the elemental (fires of Ragnaros), rather than it all being redirected to demons.

And they notably have an overlap with death knights too, being the source of the first death knights.

So i would say death, darkness, shadow and fire are as much part of the warlock aesthetic as the fel is.
Warlocks are about power from any source, and while demons are readily available, "easy" and prominent the decline of the Legion might make it beyond fitting to explore other "patrons", to reference D&D.

I for one would greatly enjoy warlock reskins featuring bluntly coerced void creatures, enslaved and twisted elementals or even creatures of life, light and order, bound unwillingly to the will of the warlock.

[Aucald]

They used to be much more varied though, eith voidwalkers representing shadow and fire delving inti the elemental (fires of Ragnaros), rather than it all being redirected to demons.

And they notably have an overlap with death knights too, being the source of the first death knights.

So i would say death, darkness, shadow and fire are as much part of the warlick aesthetic as the fel is.

Back in the day, yes. But in the modern era, I think that portfolio has been made much more distinct and discrete, with Warlocks cleaving more toward demonic and Fel aesthetics and Death Knights focusing more on Scourge and death-related motifs. The first generation of Death Knights is also a completely different thing compared to the later generations created by the Scourge, as they are more akin to spellcasting liches as opposed to the melee-oriented combat monsters that represent playable Death Knights created by the Scourge.

I'd agree darkness and shadow are part of the Warlock aesthetic, though. Death, though, is less of an aesthetic and more of an imperative for Warlocks - it's more the outcome of their craft as opposed to an element of its mystique.

[loras]

Back in the day, yes. But in the modern era, I think that portfolio has been made much more distinct and discrete, with Warlocks cleaving more toward demonic and Fel aesthetics and Death Knights focusing more on Scourge and death-related motifs. The first generation of Death Knights is also a completely different thing compared to the later generations created by the Scourge, as they are more akin to spellcasting liches as opposed to the melee-oriented combat monsters that represent playable Death Knights created by the Scourge.

I'd agree darkness and shadow are part of the Warlock aesthetic, though. Death, though, is less of an aesthetic and more of an imperative for Warlocks - it's more the outcome of their craft as opposed to an element of its mystique.

I respectfully disagree on the latter, especially in the light of Ner'zhul's "ascension" from warlock to lich king and thus progenitor of the scourge, by Kil'jaeden's design (who is considered a warlock himself i recall).

But you are right that they refocused to fel and demons, and while it was fitting at the time i'd argue destruction especially needs some refocussing - chaos bolt looks and feels underwhelming to name but one.

I'd be strongly in favor of either hellfire or a rebroadening of the aesthetic.

[username993720]

Which is still a weird choice, IMO. It kind of works for Gul'dan given the givens, but that's more a unique Gul'dan aesthetic as opposed to a generalized Warlock one. I kind of prefer OG Gul'dan from the earlier depictions because he looked more like an actual spellcaster, which was an anomaly given the more brutish and savage aesthetics of the orcish clans - he looked dignified and somehow regal, which is how I Imagine he sees himself:

It evokes that necromancer vibes.

It is, but when I think "Warlock" it isn't the Affliction that comes to mind - it's generally a mix of Destruction and Demonology. You know, spewing out Fel fire and summoning demons to wreak havoc. I've always felt the Affliction spec was a bit tacked on to the Warlock kit, which may be part and parcel of why it has been overhauled and changed so many times in WoW's history.

Then, that's your own subjective feeling.
I can say that, for me, affliction has always been what a warlock is about.

I'd agree darkness and shadow are part of the Warlock aesthetic, though. Death, though, is less of an aesthetic and more of an imperative for Warlocks - it's more the outcome of their craft as opposed to an element of its mystique.

Creeping Death, Haunt, Siphon Life, Drain Soul, Contagion, Soul Rot, Withering Bolt, Death's Embrace, Essence Drain, Rot and Decay, Soul Rip, Drain Life.

[Aucald]

I respectfully disagree on the latter, especially in the light of Ner'zhul's "ascension" from warlock to lich king and thus progenitor of the scourge, by Kil'jaeden's design (who is considered a warlock himself i recall).

Ner'zhul himself was never a Warlock - Ner'zhul was a Shaman who was sent to the Twisting Nether following the collapse of Draenor via out-of-control portal magic, and was subsequently distorted into the Lich King by Kil'jaeden. Kil'jaeden is a Warlock, for all intents and purposes, but both the Lich King and Ner'zhul are something else entirely.

- - - Updated - - -

Then, that's your own subjective feeling.
I can say that, for me, affliction has always been what a warlock is about.

This entire thread is essentially founded on subjectivity, so yes, my opinions stated here are also entirely subjective. Continual use of phrases like "I think," or "I've always felt," or "personally speaking" should've been a dead giveaway insofar as that goes. You and anyone else who disagree are entitled to your opinions, as I am concerning mine.

Creeping Death, Haunt, Siphon Life, Drain Soul, Contagion, Soul Rot, Withering Bolt, Death's Embrace, Essence Drain, Rot and Decay, Soul Rip, Drain Life.

The vast majority of these are just Shadow-based abilities that have nothing to do with the aesthetic of Death or Necromancy. A few of them are Talents that have no aesthetic whatsoever.

[Puri]

Since you're all so fixated on the shadowbolt you also need to consider the gameplay changes.
In classic a single shadowbolt crit could onehit people. It was the embodiment of death, often the last thing people saw before they died.
In retail it's a filler spell thats around rank 10 in the rotation. It barely tickles.

Those changes also need to be reflected in their presentation.

[Daedius]

Power Word: Shield has been the same since vanilla... 20 years on.

Fucking spell is beyond overdue for an update, it's so low res!!!

[SpaceMistakes]

I feel like the spell effects (or whatever they're called) are not nearly as nice as in Classic.

Be that melee skills or spells like chaos bolt. They look just fine in Classic, but on Retail I'm always thinking that something's off.

On retail their resolution is probably much higher than what ever was in Classic, so how come they kinda look lower res or something. I can't explain it.

Idk maybe I'm crazy, I just can't shake the feeling, hard to make a thread about it. It just doesn't look right.

You're crazy. Spell effects have come so far from classic that going back to them physically hurts me.

[Itisamuh]

There are a few exceptions, but for the most part I think pretty much every aspect of the graphics is better in retail than classic.

[Aucald]

Since you're all so fixated on the shadowbolt you also need to consider the gameplay changes.
In classic a single shadowbolt crit could onehit people. It was the embodiment of death, often the last thing people saw before they died.
In retail it's a filler spell thats around rank 10 in the rotation. It barely tickles.

Those changes also need to be reflected in their presentation.

Nah, luring Kazzak to Stormwind was the trope codifier for Shadowbolt back in Classic, as his Shadowbolt Volleys could decimate scores of players when he was enraged. I know there were some interesting quirks of mechanics you could get up in BWL concerning Shadow-vulnerable mobs and interactions with CoE that could net some truly huge crits, but I don't think they worked in PvP. I agree that Shadowbolt is no longer the workhorse of the Warlock kit, though, as it has long been superseded by other damaging abilities.

[Puri]

Nah, luring Kazzak to Stormwind was the trope codifier for Shadowbolt back in Classic, as his Shadowbolt Volleys could decimate scores of players when he was enraged. I know there were some interesting quirks of mechanics you could get up in BWL concerning Shadow-vulnerable mobs and interactions with CoE that could net some truly huge crits, but I don't think they worked in PvP. I

I am not sure what you want to tell me here, are you arguing that a 4k shadowbolt crit (which is easily reachable in MC gear) is not able to onehit people with less life than 4k (which you also have with around MC gear)?

[Kalisandra]

The spell effects and weapon animations have never been more fluid, smooth and eye pleasing than of how they are in retail. But maybe it is a matter of preference.

I miss the original Female Human Hand of Justice animation. Otherwise, I think the visual and animations are generally (but not universally) improved. I like the new Shaman Lightning Bolt. I beats all hell out of the original 'lightning coloured Wrath'. And Chain Lightning remains Chain Lightning, which is the important thing for Elemental, really.

[Aucald]

I am not sure what you want to tell me here, are you arguing that a 4k shadowbolt crit (which is easily reachable in MC gear) is not able to onehit people with less life than 4k (which you also have with around MC gear)?

In my experience, you needed some pretty significant setup to reach one-hit levels with Shadowbolts, such as layering ZHC on top of other trinkets and so on. This isn't to say one-hit Shadowbolts were impossible, but they were rather rare, and it doesn't account for Resistances and so on, which were equally prevalent back in Classic. To say it was "often the last thing people saw before they died" would be an exaggeration, IMO.