What pisses you off greatly in WoW?

[Zardas]

The orginal analogy still holds true, let me just modify:
That's going to the movies, just to eat popcorn and play with your phone(but only candycrush and not socializing).

The analogy doesn't hold. It would hold if movie theaters were the only place where you could eat popcorn.

[Illuminance]

Not that being niche is necessarily a disqualification. WoW's player base is so diverse now, there's really no choice but to segment, because unified appeal is becoming increasingly unfeasible. It's just a question of how niche of a content, and how much it costs to make.

Yeah, if we use niche to disqualify content, it wouldn't be delve hard mode bosses on the chopping block. Mythic raiding and PVP altogether would be the first to go.

Unified appeal was never there in the first place. Blizzard realized this back in 2004-2006 when hardly anyone entered Naxx, and most players were somewhere between leveling and 5/10-mans. That's why we got heroic dungeons in BC and a subsequent assortment of small group content. Of course some players would argue the game was better off when casual players had very little to do, but I don't think the majority of players today would feel that way.

[Biomega]

The analogy doesn't hold. It would hold if movie theaters were the only place where you could eat popcorn.

Ooooh I love analogies!

Let's go with...

It's a movie theater that sells a flavor of popcorn you can't really get anywhere else, and you like having lots of people around and a movie going in the background while you play on your phone. You don't really want to talk to anyone or watch the movie, except the occasional glance over when you feel like it, but it's nice to be around people even so and you're really into this popcorn flavor, like holy shit it's so good and nothing else hits like it.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with someone going to that theater doing those things. And I can absolutely understand if they go what do you mean you're discontinuing this flavor of popcorn, or what do you mean I can't have a seat unless I share it with someone else and talk to them for 15 minutes, or whatever else. Any number of things that could impact your experience there.

HOWEVER!

Even for someone who enjoys this particular experience and has that particular preference - and again, nothing wrong with liking it that way - there has to be awareness that a movie theater isn't designed for that kind of preference. And that if they make changes intended for the benefit of everyone else and you happen to be impacted, well, sucks to be you I guess. Like what if that flavor of popcorn you can't do without happens to be salmon and tabasco flavor, and everyone else is like... yeah how about no we'd like something edible please. So they discontinue it and give everyone else a different flavor, and now you're out of salmon and tabasco and that sucks for you but your particular tastes aren't dispositive here and the experience is meant for a whole bunch of people, not just you. And they just kinda matter more than you do, sorry to say.

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Yeah, if we use niche to disqualify content, it wouldn't be delve hard mode bosses on the chopping block. Mythic raiding and PVP altogether would be the first to go.

Unified appeal was never there in the first place. Blizzard realized this back in 2004-2006 when hardly anyone entered Naxx, and most players were somewhere between leveling and 5/10-mans. That's why we got heroic dungeons in BC and a subsequent assortment of small group content. Of course some players would argue the game was better off when casual players had very little to do, but I don't the majority of players today would feel that way.

For sure, but once things become a matter of degrees, people start arguing about degrees, too.

Like the whole "game is designed for the 1%" meme, as if the existence of mythic raiding meant the entirety of WoW space and time bends around it. You can extend that at will and argue for the zero-sum game of dev resources, and that's true to an extent - obviously an art team is not going to take away from a quest team, but overall, there is only so much dev time to go around. And some allocation does happen at the expense of certain things.

It's tricky to decide what segment is "worth" doing and what isn't. But the fact that there is segmentation and should be absolutely is not up for debate.

[Big Thanks]

Ooooh I love analogies!

I used to love analogies too...but in time i realized they are NEVER 1 to 1 scenarios most of the time...and they suck i hate them now

[Brostin]

People that join raid guilds but flake when it comes to raid sign ups all the time and still fell entitled to a raid spot when they do decide to show up.

Players that hold themselves to a different standard(none at all) than other players and think they should be vocal about everyones shortcomings.

Raids where fighting the camera when tanking near walls is really the most challenging part of encounters.

[Ielenia]

Maybe he just chose to play a third-person tab-target rpg with a lot of quests, not a multiplayer game.

Look at their join date to this website: circa 2015. Which means they've played WoW for at least 10 years. That's quite a lot of time to be playing "the wrong game". If they joined WoW because there's no "single-player third person tab-target RPG with lots of quests" game around, and then they should either learn to suck it up and deal with the multiplayer core of the game, or leave. To change the game into something it's not to fit them and only them is arrogant and egotistical at the most generous interpretation.

Maybe he just had to settle for an mmorpg because, for some reasons, they are the only one providing such an experience. In this case, he very much as something to complain about.

And this "something" they have to complain about is themselves, not the game. They're blaming the game for their own faults.

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You have to hate this.

Except that is not a "WoW thing", though. That exists in every game where you can have multiple accounts.

[WowIsDead64]

Ooooh I love analogies!

Let's go with...

It's a movie theater that sells a flavor of popcorn you can't really get anywhere else, and you like having lots of people around and a movie going in the background while you play on your phone. You don't really want to talk to anyone or watch the movie, except the occasional glance over when you feel like it, but it's nice to be around people even so and you're really into this popcorn flavor, like holy shit it's so good and nothing else hits like it.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with someone going to that theater doing those things. And I can absolutely understand if they go what do you mean you're discontinuing this flavor of popcorn, or what do you mean I can't have a seat unless I share it with someone else and talk to them for 15 minutes, or whatever else. Any number of things that could impact your experience there.

HOWEVER!

Even for someone who enjoys this particular experience and has that particular preference - and again, nothing wrong with liking it that way - there has to be awareness that a movie theater isn't designed for that kind of preference. And that if they make changes intended for the benefit of everyone else and you happen to be impacted, well, sucks to be you I guess. Like what if that flavor of popcorn you can't do without happens to be salmon and tabasco flavor, and everyone else is like... yeah how about no we'd like something edible please. So they discontinue it and give everyone else a different flavor, and now you're out of salmon and tabasco and that sucks for you but your particular tastes aren't dispositive here and the experience is meant for a whole bunch of people, not just you. And they just kinda matter more than you do, sorry to say.

Funny thing, but sometimes businesses become successful exactly because they do something like this. Becoming smart and providing extra service. Some even realize, that selling food is more profitable than showing movies and open restaurants. In this case Blizzard are that strange guys, who are stubborn and obsessed about idea, that movie theater should be about movies only, refuse to sell pop-corn there and lose half of their profit as result, while other businesses do exactly this.

Again. What was discussed before - market saturation as reason, why Wow failed back in Cata. Making game experience more diverse - is obvious way to overcome this problem. But for some reason they chose to stay niche, while increasing efficiency of money milking instead.

[HanziePanzie]

Funny thing, but sometimes businesses become successful exactly because they do something like this. Becoming smart and providing extra service. Some even realize, that selling food is more profitable than showing movies and open restaurants. In this case Blizzard are that strange guys, who are stubborn and obsessed about idea, that movie theater should be about movies only, refuse to sell pop-corn there and lose half of their profit as result, while other businesses do exactly this.

Again. What was discussed before - market saturation as reason, why Wow failed back in Cata. Making game experience more diverse - is obvious way to overcome this problem. But for some reason they chose to stay niche, while increasing efficiency of money milking instead.

The problem is that you are lonely, isn’t it? Most of us are - and that’s okay.

Old grumpy men would complain about the weather, or how Christmas isn’t the same anymore. You’re complaining about WoW. What a privilege in this current world situation.

That’s the point. You’re not here to solve anything - you’re here to talk for the sake of talking. Your gaming habits don’t align with a genuine interest in WoW. Maybe the community is what you are enjoying - even though nobody is sharing interest with you.

Again, that’s completely fine. We’re all here to talk to someone. But please stop this nonsense and reflect on what you’ve been saying for years now.

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The analogy doesn't hold. It would hold if movie theaters were the only place where you could eat popcorn.

So, you mean that WoW is not the only game he can play?

Interesting.

[WowIsDead64]

The problem is that you are lonely, isn’t it? Most of us are - and that’s okay.

Old grumpy men would complain about the weather, or how Christmas isn’t the same anymore. You’re complaining about WoW. What a privilege in this current world situation.

That’s the point. You’re not here to solve anything - you’re here to talk for the sake of talking. Your gaming habits don’t align with a genuine interest in WoW. Maybe the community is what you are enjoying - even though nobody is sharing interest with you.

Again, that’s completely fine. We’re all here to talk to someone. But please stop this nonsense and reflect on what you’ve been saying for years now.

It's good thing, when opponent switches to personal attacks, cuz he has run out of arguments and it means you're right. There are obvious things, that can only be rejected via weak excuses. What we talk about - is thing, that is well known in business. Diversification. It was obvious move for Blizzard since Cata. It has been asked by players since then. Yet Blizzard still refuse to do it. Yeah, big expensive games are good. But they're risky. Cuz they're still hit or miss. But miss costs much more in this case. Obvious strategy - is to simply make smaller but more games. But it isn't even what we ask for. It's the same problem, as with asking for Wow 2.0. At the end - it's big risk, it isn't needed. We already have Wow, that is flexible enough platform to implement anything on it's base. It has 22 years of content, that can be reused. Many parts of this content were friendly enough and therefore require little to no modifications. Having corner in Wow, that would be guaranteed to ALWAYS have solo-friendly design and wouldn't be affected by needs of group content players - isn't so much to ask. Yeah. For now problem of returning to Wow is in completely different plane. It's about stopping relying on pure luck and having guarantees. And guarantees mean explicit design. Delves are example of such design, but they're still about doing things Blizzards' way, i.e. not giving players what they actually want.

[Biomega]

Funny thing, but sometimes businesses become successful exactly because they do something like this. Becoming smart and providing extra service. Some even realize, that selling food is more profitable than showing movies and open restaurants. In this case Blizzard are that strange guys, who are stubborn and obsessed about idea, that movie theater should be about movies only, refuse to sell pop-corn there and lose half of their profit as result, while other businesses do exactly this.

No, the funny thing is people who go from "sometimes it's like this" to "it's like this for sure here, and they're losing HALF THEIR PROFIT!" - without a shred of evidence, data, or informed reasoning, purely based on I say so therefore it must be so.

You go around making all these wild claims, but any time anyone asks you to back them up, you either stop responding or actively say nonono you don't understand I don't need evidence I know.

Yeah.

Funny. Thing.

[Relapses]

It's good thing, when opponent switches to personal attacks, cuz he has run out of arguments and it means you're right. There are obvious things, that can only be rejected via weak excuses. What we talk about - is thing, that is well known in business. Diversification. It was obvious move for Blizzard since Cata. It has been asked by players since then. Yet Blizzard still refuse to do it. Yeah, big expensive games are good. But they're risky. Cuz they're still hit or miss. But miss costs much more in this case. Obvious strategy - is to simply make smaller but more games. But it isn't even what we ask for. It's the same problem, as with asking for Wow 2.0. At the end - it's big risk, it isn't needed. We already have Wow, that is flexible enough platform to implement anything on it's base. It has 22 years of content, that can be reused. Many parts of this content were friendly enough and therefore require little to no modifications. Having corner in Wow, that would be guaranteed to ALWAYS have solo-friendly design and wouldn't be affected by needs of group content players - isn't so much to ask. Yeah. For now problem of returning to Wow is in completely different plane. It's about stopping relying on pure luck and having guarantees. And guarantees mean explicit design. Delves are example of such design, but they're still about doing things Blizzards' way, i.e. not giving players what they actually want.

My man, I earnestly think you should just play Cookie Clicker instead of WoW. Infinite determinism!

[Ghostile]

Raids where fighting the camera when tanking near walls is really the most challenging part of encounters.

Fucking dimensius and his hands. Jesus fucking christ.

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But for some reason they chose to stay niche, while increasing efficiency of money milking instead.

They literally made content more spread between different types of players than ever before. Id almost even say more than any other game.

You really need to understand that you arent any more important than any other player.

[Mysterymask]

Fucking dimensius and his hands. Jesus fucking christ.

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They literally made content more spread between different types of players than ever before. Id almost even say more than any other game.

You really need to understand that you arent any more important than any other player.

No you'd don't get it.

$15 from wowisdead64 is blessed by the gods. Like yeah $15 from literally everyone else is nice but his $15 is like Scrooge McDucks #1 dime it's sacred and important or something

[WowIsDead64]

They literally made content more spread between different types of players than ever before. Id almost even say more than any other game.

You really need to understand that you arent any more important than any other player.

I've got tired of explaining, why "Content is more spread than even before" is nothing more than populism and sophism. If it would be true, DF would have more friendly content than SL. It isn't true. What content Blizzard push - isn't what is needed. What they push - is so called "illusion of group content", that is on par with pugging and suffers from exactly the same problems. "Illusion of group content" - is when it's enough for other players to just exist to make it playable. Like rares for example, that aren't soloable, but at the same time don't pose any threat. It implies, that players still need to at least see other players around to be happy. But this content still suffers from exactly the same problems. Like scheduled nature for example. You still can't play this content when and how you want. DF was as bad, as waiting for hour to play 10 minutes of content. I.e. core concept of content hasn't changed. It's still solo-unfriendly. I mean, being able to complete content without explicit grouping doesn't make it solo-friendly.

Overall what TWW was about - damage control. It was about moving solo players to some sort of ghetto, so they wouldn't interfere with group content. It sounds as "having own corner in game" I ask for, but it isn't. Overall it's about thing, Blizzard have been trying to do since MOP - to take outdoor away from solo players and turn it to just another affiliate of group content. And you should already know one simple truth about me. For me NO FLY = NO BUY. As simple, as that. Therefore outdoor content - is mandatory requirement for me.

[Ghostile]

For me NO FLY = NO BUY. As simple, as that. Therefore outdoor content - is mandatory requirement for me.

This line alone proves you're in the wrong game and should just move on.
World of warcraft never was and probably never will be for you.

[CaptainV]

FOMO fatigue, that's what honestly pisses me off, the thing is while I understand they want to give us more content to do making that content time demanding instead of time consuming at ones own leisure is abysmal, and lately since TWW and Midnight it seems they are going the same road they went with BFA which imho will lead to a second fatigue.

[WowIsDead64]

This line alone proves you're in the wrong game and should just move on.
World of warcraft never was and probably never will be for you.

Flying problem - is purely about excessive overhead. It's similar to "You should assemble group manually and get to dungeon on feet". Sounds great in theory. If only chatting would be real content. But in reality it's about 40m of time wasted to complete 10m content. 300% overhead, yeah. And at the same time in PVP games even 50/50 overhead is considered to be unacceptable and causes loss of players.

You know. It's pure psychology. It's known fact, that fun = time goes faster, idling = time slows down. That's why people hate idling and wasting time. That's why time killers should be fun. Content with high overhead ratio - is mostly about idling and wasting time. No wonder, that players hate such content.

[LordVargK]

How did we go from this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6LIty6Uea4


A dead mom with her baby. and dead kids, Blood etc


To this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZtedjN1JXY&t


Where did the RAW warcarft go ?

Lost in the Shadowlands.

Also, just as a side note, I strongly dislike the artstyle of those "character trailers". Those feel like Guild wars cinematics.

[Ghostile]

But in reality it's about 40m of time wasted to complete 10m content.

You should probably at least play the content you write about, so you don't have to come up with the dumbest shit in attempt to describe a game you don't play.

[Al Gorefiend]

Ooooh I love analogies!

I have to come to learn that analogies, correlating examples and comparisons are the single worst way to communicate information on a forum. Even when they are 1:1 examples or entrenched in historical accuracy. 50% of the time they will fly over people's heads and the other 50% the argument just shifts toward breaking down the analogy you used to personal interpretation.