Interview with WoW lead: Warcraft needs to be more than “simply an MMORPG"

[KOUNTERPARTS]

This may be a polarizing topic for this website.

https://frvr.com/blog/news/world-of-...ply-an-mmorpg/

World of Warcraft lead says Warcraft needs to be more than “simply an MMORPG” as the IP is “underutilized” and needs “broader” appeal

In a new interview, World of Warcraft executive producer and vice president Holly Longdale claimed that the Warcraft IP is “underutilised” and needs “evolving” to become more “approachable” to the masses.

Speaking to The Game Business, Longdale claimed that Blizzard needs to work to make sure that the Warcraft IP is more than an MMORPG, but a brand that has something for everyone. (Blizzard did recently kill a Warcraft mobile game, just saying.)

“It’s a fantastic IP. In my humble opinion, it’s been underutilized and I just want to bring it to as many people as possible,” Longdale said. “And that means evolving what Warcraft means, what it is, and where it’s going. We want it to be approachable.”

Longdale explained that Blizzard is trying to come up with a “third space” for Warcraft in an almost metaverse-like way. The Blizzard executive explained they “can’t define what this means exactly” but they want “people to come in, hang out and have birthdays, weddings, raids, grand adventures, play with their friends, meet new friends … all the things that World of Warcraft has been good at for over 20 years.”

The executive explained that Blizzard won’t stop doing what fans love about World of Warcraft “but at the same time, we have a bigger vision than simply being an MMORPG.” However, explained the goal for the future is to give the game more “broader” appeal.

(In my opinion) WoW should definitely expand out of the MMORPG genre solely, but still retain the core MMORPG elements. This notion, of course, is highly debated with a majority voice saying that WoW has long since lost its MMORPG identity. There is much truth to that, yes.

I think the direction they have been going in the last 4 expansions is the right one, but perhaps they are too focused on moving in that direction. The advent of many different Classic WoW releases going on at the same time, I feel, is Blizzard's way of allowing people to play those more distinct MMORPG oriented versions of the game for those who decry the current state of retail.

I guess we'll see in another 20 years.

[Just Passing through]

This may be a polarizing topic for this website.

https://frvr.com/blog/news/world-of-...ply-an-mmorpg/



(In my opinion) WoW should definitely expand out of the MMORPG genre solely, but still retain the core MMORPG elements. This notion, of course, is highly debated with a majority voice saying that WoW has long since lost its MMORPG identity. There is much truth to that, yes.

I think the direction they have been going in the last 4 expansions is the right one, but perhaps they are too focused on moving in that direction. The advent of many different Classic WoW releases going on at the same time, I feel, is Blizzard's way of allowing people to play those more distinct MMORPG oriented versions of the game for those who decry the current state of retail.

I guess we'll see in another 20 years.

Anything is polarizing for MMO C

Not surprised by that article - in my opinion, they have been trying / doing things like that for a long time - implement things that are not necessary "typical" of an MMO. Like...adding the Pokemon element with pet battles. (even if they apparently changing that big time in Midnight?)

Also while you could always solo dungeons in some MMOs, I think they have been adding options that are definitely not "multiplayer" - like solo delves or Follower Dungeons. And now from what I understand pvp against NPCs (alsthough we had that in Legion, I think?)

Maybe housing will go more the route of "The sims". Maybe Hearthstone becomes integrated into WoW? I expect to see a big change around 2029 - 2030, when the current trilogy is over.

Though my prediction is that this thread will mostly be us arguing about what an MMORPG is...if WoW ever was one...if WoW has lost its soul...how everything was better in the past...how the game needs to be saved etc etc.

[NineSpine]

It's very hard to understand what she is getting at, because it seems unclear what parts of this are about World of Warcraft and what parts are about doing wholly separate things with the IP. As far as WoW goes, the increasingly seasonal and proscriptive nature of the game is in stark contrast to what she is saying. The game tells you exactly when, how, and why to do anything in it. It's become aggressively anti-emergent-gameplay.

[Kharli]

Anything is polarizing for MMO C

Not surprised by that article - in my opinion, they have been trying / doing things like that for a long time - implement things that are not necessary "typical" of an MMO. Like...adding the Pokemon element with pet battles. (even if they apparently changing that big time in Midnight?)

Also while you could always solo dungeons in some MMOs, I think they have been adding options that are definitely not "multiplayer" - like solo delves or Follower Dungeons. And now from what I understand pvp against NPCs (alsthough we had that in Legion, I think?)

Maybe housing will go more the route of "The sims". Maybe Hearthstone becomes integrated into WoW? I expect to see a big change around 2029 - 2030, when the current trilogy is over.

Though my prediction is that this thread will mostly be us arguing about what an MMORPG is...if WoW ever was one...if WoW has lost its soul...how everything was better in the past...how the game needs to be saved etc etc.

The solo delves thing and follower dungeons are fine as they exist for players to learn a class without punishing others and also grant some kind of gear or do dungeon quests for story or simply try out a new spec/class without ruining someone else's day.

the pvp against bots we have had since whenever they added the brawl, this is just a more permament feature with three diffrent maps for the pvp, silvershard mines, battle for gilneas and Arathi Basin (this was the brawl map).

Honestly? i'm all with holly on this, bring more people into the game and I do agree with her that the IP is underutalized but like Ninespine does say it's a lot of waffle.. and uh there is no source to that interview, so i will take that blog with a massive pile of salt.

[Just Passing through]

The solo delves thing and follower dungeons are fine as they exist for players to learn a class without punishing others and also grant some kind of gear or do dungeon quests for story or simply try out a new spec/class without ruining someone else's day.

the pvp against bots we have had since whenever they added the brawl, this is just a more permament feature with three diffrent maps for the pvp, silvershard mines, battle for gilneas and Arathi Basin (this was the brawl map).

Honestly? i'm all with holly on this, bring more people into the game and I do agree with her that the IP is underutalized but like Ninespine does say it's a lot of waffle.. and uh there is no source to that interview, so i will take that blog with a massive pile of salt.

First time I heard "... and I just want to bring it to as many people as possible," was in an Interview with Rob Pardo..years..years..years agon. And at least he said "... WE just want to bring it to as many people as possible...." That was in regards to bringing raids (that he and other devs loved in EQ) to more people, basically making an accessible MMORPG instead of the hardcore one that the older MMOs were.

So they did their thing and it worked - and reflected later...unlike what is happening here. Agree with Ninespine - it is all very vague. Which is no surprise after the recent "State of Azeroth" video which was like 20 minutes of sucking up to players and telling us how passionate the team is and like 3 minutes of actual info.

[NineSpine]

The solo delves thing and follower dungeons are fine as they exist for players to learn a class without punishing others and also grant some kind of gear or do dungeon quests for story or simply try out a new spec/class without ruining someone else's day.

the pvp against bots we have had since whenever they added the brawl, this is just a more permament feature with three diffrent maps for the pvp, silvershard mines, battle for gilneas and Arathi Basin (this was the brawl map).

Honestly? i'm all with holly on this, bring more people into the game and I do agree with her that the IP is underutalized but like Ninespine does say it's a lot of waffle.. and uh there is no source to that interview, so i will take that blog with a massive pile of salt.

Yeah, it's a bit odd. The game seems quite happy with its direction right now, which rejects being a big online world in favor of being a seasonal loot grinder. But everything she is saying here leans toward wanting the game to be a big online world again. I just don't see that materializing in the retail game, because the audience for the retail is the one that wants a seasonal loot grinder.

On the other hand, maybe this reflects why they are so happy to have so many versions of Classic with their own communities and cultures.

[Illuminance]

The full interview is worth a watch/listen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p12F5la-yPo

There are some eyebrow raising moments. In one (timestamp 29:01), Holly Longdale quotes Metzen:

"We want [Warcraft] to be approachable. Even with Chris Metzen, sometimes he's like: 'Man, I wish we hadn't called it Warcraft. Sounds kind of intimidating.'"

There are also one or two times when Ion insists that Blizzard has accelerated the pace of development while "maintaining quality," which is laughable given the state of 12.0.

everything she is saying here leans toward wanting the game to be a big online world again. I just don't see that materializing in the retail game, because the audience for the retail is the one that wants a seasonal loot grinder.

The interview is full of references to how Blizzard is analyzing player behavior, "reacting to the community," players getting older, players wanting to play with their kids/spouse, accessibility, content being released that is overwhelmingly popular despite the initial backlash (delves/housing), etc., and it all kind of points in the same direction.

Blizzard seems to have determined that the path forward (i.e. where the $ is) for retail is to take a 90 degree turn and devote the bulk of their resources to the casual player base, regardless of their long history of neglecting casuals in favor of the M+/raids/e-sports loot grinder.

The players Blizzard is suddenly catering to now aren't really interested in the seasonal loot grinds of the past, particularly the ilvl-chasing PVE modes that have been the focus for the past 10 years, yet Blizzard can't stop themselves from implementing every new feature as a seasonal loot grind, including delves and housing. Blizz is too attached to any system that they think drives engagement and that mindset will prevent them from delivering any other experience.

[Ghostile]

The full interview is worth a watch/listen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p12F5la-yPo

There are some eyebrow raising moments. In one (timestamp 29:01), Holly Longdale quotes Metzen:



There are also one or two times when Ion insists that Blizzard has accelerated the pace of development while "maintaining quality," which is laughable given the state of 12.0.



The interview is full of references to how Blizzard is analyzing player behavior, "reacting to the community," players getting older, players wanting to play with their kids/spouse, accessibility, content being released that is overwhelmingly popular despite the initial backlash (delves/housing), etc., and it all kind of points in the same direction.

Blizzard seems to have determined that the path forward (i.e. where the $ is) for retail is to take a 90 degree turn and devote the bulk of their resources to the casual player base, regardless of their long history of neglecting casuals in favor of the M+/raids/e-sports loot grinder.

The players Blizzard is suddenly catering to now aren't really interested in the seasonal loot grinds of the past, particularly the ilvl-chasing PVE modes that have been the focus for the past 10 years, yet Blizzard can't stop themselves from implementing every new feature as a seasonal loot grind, including delves and housing. Blizz is too attached to any system that they think drives engagement and that mindset will prevent them from delivering any other experience.

This here is a perfect example of how blizzard just cannot be right in the eyes of this forum.
First you get people crying how blizzard is putting too much attention to the "1%" of the game, now that they announce a shift someone complains about that, lol.

[Ashana Darkmoon]

To be honest that doesn't really say anything, it's just vague corpo speak

[Illuminance]

This here is a perfect example of how blizzard just cannot be right in the eyes of this forum.
First you get people crying how blizzard is putting too much attention to the "1%" of the game, now that they announce a shift someone complains about that, lol.

Nowhere in my post did I complain about the shift itself. I'm just stating how I interpret the change in direction and saying that I don't think they should impose seasonal mechanics on literally everything.

I'm not sure how you even got that impression. I play on a RP server, haven't raided in at least 10 years, and barely participate in M+. Delves and housing are great for me and my playstyle.

[Triceron]

Well when the latest use of the IP is a mobile game that they're no longer supporting and before that a MOBA that they pushed to Esports prematurely, I don't think it's a problem with the IP as much as they don't know what to do with it. Hearthstone stands as the only successful (profitable) use of the franchise outside of WoW.

I get that RTS isn't really in the cards to return, but I do think they should make a standalone SP focused campaign game, something that really pushes the boundaries for their storytelling as a mainline entry. It doesn't even need to compete with WoW's modern plot, they could literally make bank on an anthology series covering the biggest Warcraft moments in history.


But the wording in the interview and 'broader appeal' just seems like code for more cutesy side stuff that hasn't hit the mark since Hearthstone.

[Redwyrm]

Speaking of Blizzard IPs, what happened to Warcraft Rumble? That thing should be on a milk carton for how fast it disappeared from any news

And for those who forgot what Rumble is/was

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Speaking of Blizzard IPs, what happened to Warcraft Rumble? That thing should be on a milk carton for how fast it disappeared from any news

And for those who forgot what Rumble is/was

Warcraft Rumble is set within the Warcraft universe. It was released for iOS and Android on November 3, 2023 and for Windows on December 10, 2024.

It's also worth noting that in July 2025, Blizzard announced that they ceased developing new content for the game and laid off a majority of the development team.

[Syegfryed]

Warcraft as a IP should be used more yes and it was dumb from blizzard for not doing so. They tried one movie, shat the bed and gave up

WoW should have movies, series, animations, more different games. A single player game like skyrim/God of war in the warcraft universe would be dope. They have good stories, before the current shit team who did interesting and enjoyable stories, even if they werent that complex

now, the problem is here:

'Man, I wish we hadn't called it Warcraft. Sounds kind of intimidating.'"

Metzen saying this show to me he is already dead inside and drank the soy milk, all the people who hoped he would put wow back in trails can throw the dream in the trashcan.

WoW is doing exactly like other ips that failed did, trying to get too broad of audience, but alienating their own playerbase, pushing them off, and in the end not managing to get a new audience anyway, because they are twitter fans, they dont play, they dont pay

[Cheezits]

This interview should basically kill off MMOC's interest in the game as it confirms they aren't changing the quality of minor patches and they aren't returning to the vibes of classic wow.

[Illuminance]

WoW should definitely expand out of the MMORPG genre solely, but still retain the core MMORPG elements.

There's a lot to unpack with what they've been saying/doing. I'm going to give my interpretation which could be way off base, but this is just how I see it, so big IMO/IMV disclaimer here.

When they talk about "MMORPG," they probably mean: what retail WoW has been from ~2010-2022.
When they talk about moving past that, I think it's a combination of:

1) (-MMO): Solo player content, such as delves, housing, finding secrets, follower dungeons, story mode raids, all developed recently, where you never have to interact with another person.
2) (-RPG): Turning the game into a 3D chat room for people who want to socialize.

For that second point, that includes more whimsical events/mini-games, the neighborhood aspect of housing, likely greater customization of avatars, and probably new game modes. Some of this is prediction -- I think they haven't advanced much in this particular category -- but they are indicating that they want to amp up the metaverse aspects of the game.

It could involve more breaking the 4th wall and eliminating some RP components -- i.e., the emphasis will "be/express yourself" rather than be/express a character in Azeroth. One recent example is how they just handed out replicas of the Dark Portal for players to place on their lawns -- totally unrealistic but fits with the goal of expressing the player's sense of humor/aesthetics. I also believe this is in part why the story has veered towards a feel good, friendship is magic vibe, and why every culture has been converging towards "humans but green," "humans but long ears," etc., so that surface-level self-inserting is accommodated and the player can be unconcerned about an exotic, unfamiliar, or troubled world.

I've been playing a few games recently that are highly successful solo/multiplayer hybrids, and that model I think better capture the interests of a larger swath of gamers than MMOs. WoW has both the reputation and core design of being a boomer dungeon grinder and I think Blizz wants to disrupt that to grow their player base, even if the near future of the game will be a quite different version than what we had the first 20 years.

Longdale explained that Blizzard is trying to come up with a “third space” for Warcraft in an almost metaverse-like way. The Blizzard executive explained they “can’t define what this means exactly” but they want “people to come in, hang out and have birthdays, weddings, raids, grand adventures, play with their friends, meet new friends … all the things that World of Warcraft has been good at for over 20 years.”

This is such a funny/interesting statement to me for a few reasons.

WoW has not been good at these things for over 20 years. That statement is laughably out of touch on her part. In the same interview, Ion said that players are doing these sorts of social things "in spite of" Blizzard's efforts, which is 100% correct.

Also, I've been seeing this pattern where Blizzard is essentially disregarding the RP element of the game. This notion that WoW is a place to celebrate birthdays and meet friends is much more akin to social media than it is an RPG. The latest housing trailer, with orcs carrying pink flamingos, stood out to me as an example where being quirky and expressive supersedes immersion and world building.

It'll be interesting to see how the game is reshaped as they continue divert resources in that direction. None of this is necessarily a bad direction but I do think that there will be significant whiplash in the community. I can adapt, or move on, as the game continues to change.

[Cheezits]

Also, I've been seeing this pattern where Blizzard is essentially disregarding the RP element of the game. This notion that WoW is a place to celebrate birthdays and meet friends is much more akin to social media than it is an RPG. The latest housing trailer, with orcs carrying pink flamingos, stood out to me as an example where being quirky and expressive supersedes immersion and world building.

It'll be interesting to see how the game is reshaped as they continue divert resources in that direction. None of this is necessarily a bad direction but I do think that there will be significant whiplash in the community. I can adapt, or move on, as the game continues to change.

Maybe the idea is that Retail WoW will turn into Metaverse/Fortnite and Classic+ will essentially be the "RP version" of Warcraft. I could see them changing Classic+'s name to "Warcraft" to reflect that.

[Illuminance]

Metzen saying this show to me he is already dead inside and drank the soy milk, all the people who hoped he would put wow back in trails can throw the dream in the trashcan.

100% - when Metzen had that early interview talking about the "democratization" of the writing process, I think many were still holding out hope that he was adjusting to the environment. Much of the discussion around the story for the next year or two afterwards was how "just wait until X and then you'll see Metzen's influence," but he really seems to have changed his outlook.

The statement is so shocking to me that if I hadn't heard how Holly delivered it, I'd think there was some kind of mistake in how he was quoted.

WoW is doing exactly like other ips that failed did, trying to get too broad of audience, but alienating their own playerbase, pushing them off, and in the end not managing to get a new audience anyway, because they are twitter fans, they dont play, they dont pay

Yeah I think there are a lot of parallels to other IPs as well as other forms of media.

The only part I have some doubt about is whether they'll be able to benefit from the new direction. In many cases, a sudden shift in target audience drives the product into the ground. In WoW, I do think that the casual, non-PVE, non-RP audience has been paying the bills. That segment is usually among the last to cancel subs during a content drought, they probably stuck around during the SL debacle, and they don't often have major demands of the developers. I also think in terms of sheer number they probably eclipse any RWF/MDI/e-sports/M+ rating climbing/raiding/etc. population that Blizzard has historically catered to.

The sheer amount of resources they spent on housing, including acquiring a new studio specifically to develop the feature, makes me think the data are loud and clear.

- - - Updated - - -

Maybe the idea is that Retail WoW will turn into Metaverse/Fortnite and Classic+ will essentially be the "RP version" of Warcraft. I could see them changing Classic+'s name to "Warcraft" to reflect that.

Possibly - they clearly seem to be gearing up for some kind of classic+ development and that might be the refuge for a lot of the players who prefer the older/standard forms of WoW.

The challenge would be somehow satisfying classic players, retail players who want nothing but a dungeon simulator, and the casual third population that they are pivoting to.

[Ashana Darkmoon]

It's a corporation so they want to future-proof the brand as much as possible, this isn't that wild. The same way that 25-year-olds in 2005 are nothing like 25-year-olds in 2025, stuff is obviously going to have to change.

Personal feelings aside, it would be idiotic of them to assume that the current batch of OG 40-50 year-olds are going to keep invested in this IP much longer.

[loras]

This may be a polarizing topic for this website.

https://frvr.com/blog/news/world-of-...ply-an-mmorpg/



(In my opinion) WoW should definitely expand out of the MMORPG genre solely, but still retain the core MMORPG elements. This notion, of course, is highly debated with a majority voice saying that WoW has long since lost its MMORPG identity. There is much truth to that, yes.

I think the direction they have been going in the last 4 expansions is the right one, but perhaps they are too focused on moving in that direction. The advent of many different Classic WoW releases going on at the same time, I feel, is Blizzard's way of allowing people to play those more distinct MMORPG oriented versions of the game for those who decry the current state of retail.

I guess we'll see in another 20 years.

He ain't wrong, but they have been clumsily trying to do this for roughly a decade now by imitating others.
That despicable market research oriented approach rather than letting the inspired and capable do their thing, and i do believe that despite their degenerated culture they still have such people, if given the space and genuine freedom.
It seems obvious that they can focus on rpgs and rts, but it seems to me they most of all need to work on whatever they think they can get to work.

I think it'd make sense for them to expand into other audiovisual formats too, but they need to find both a format and a style of their own that really works, rather than trying to borrow from others as shortsighted corporates are wont to do.
Practically an episodic series following the expansions one-behind seems like an obvious choice, including all auxiliary materials most don't ever see anyway. So as a sort of summary of sorts, to allow people to get a grip on the massive body of works in an a fluid, "tasty" bite-sized and sensible manner.