Interview with WoW lead: Warcraft needs to be more than “simply an MMORPG"

[Ghostile]

And you never mention anything about the butchering of Trollbane character by making him passive fuck did you? Or how Floweduin spending half of the main campaign in the first patch whining and crying about something he has done that wasnt in his own control the "maaaaaah feeling" and "nuuuuu baaady UnDeRstand meeeeh"

Admitting you have absolutely no clue what PTSD is explains so much about this.

[Velshin]

You claim I'm leaving out things like Trollbane being made "Passive" (because apparently characters shouldn't develop over literally twenty years of passage in game) by realizing that war is not, in fact, the answer to everything, then somehow make a comment like this, ignoring characters like Faerin and Alleria being front and center in Th War Within, neither of whom I would consider "weak" female characters. Lady Liadrin is also going to likely play a large role in Midnight as well, but I suppose she's not a "strong female character" because Blizzard made her look to "manly" or something?

I'm also not surprised you're slurping at bit for "Manly' characters like Varian and Garrosh, ignoring the fact that Varian was an abusive father who had to literally break his son's arm before realizing he might have an anger problem, then had an entire character arc that saw him learn to control the warrior aspect of him, and become both a loving father as well as the leader the Alliance neededat the time. And Garrosh? Really? There's nothing "Manly" about being a single minded, genocidal, warmongering monster who believed the only beings that belonged on Azeroth were Orcs, and all other races needed to be killed or put into chains. He was one of the most one dimensional evil villains Blizzard has ever written. Atleast Sylvanas had a bit of subtley to her actions, Garrosh was literally a comically over the topic evil villain, and while there's nothing wrong with having one of those every so often, making every single villain like that would not only grow old very fast, but show that the writers truly don't know how to write compelling characters or narratives.

And Thrall? You mean the character who even from his inception in WC3 was opposed to following in Blackhand's footsteps of turning the Horde into a mindless war machine hellbent on conquering everything is somehow now "Pussified" because he stuck to his ideals, and stepped away from the conflict in Azeroth for a time when he realized he was only making things worst? That sounds more to me like Thrall sticking true to the character he was given, rather than turning into something he never was.

As I said in my post, and I'll reiterate here - you're making it abundtly clear the only thing that is "many" to you is a bunch of hulking, sweaty men bashing their brains while scantly clad women (of which there's no coincidence here that Jaina, Sylvanas, and Tyrande are all your favorite female characters in WoW - gee I wonder why that could possibly be) watch on in awe.

You throwing a tantrum and telling everyone to shut the fuck up when we're calling you out on your very obvious bias and insecurities isn't helping matters either. I offered plenty of examples in TWW alone to mature, adult themes that are far from being "Soft pussy" or "Disnified". Your counter argument was crying that characters who have lived in nothing but constant war and bloodshed suddenly getting tired of that and trying to find a way for their children to not have to live the life they did as "whining and becoming super pussy passive" only shows to me, and likely everyone else here, that you're either a twenty year old barely out of their teens, or honest to god believe that the only "Manly" thing in life are men covered in gore slashing one another apart on the battlefield.

Either way - Blizzard isn't the problem here, you are. You clearly haven't grown up out of your teenage mentality, and the prospect of story telling becoming less one dimensional and focusing on more depth and - gasp - human emotion and feelings to try to craft a more believable, organic world scares you. But please, do go on and continue digging a hole for everyone here to see how you just can't gasp that there's more to adult story telling then big burly men covered in blood.

Or don't - and just block me like you're threatening to do to everyone who has a more mature understanding of world building and character development than you do, and continue living in the little echo chamber where everything is woke, "Soft pussy" and "Disnified". Nothing of value will be lost if fewer people can see or respond to your posts - trust me on that one.

I took a moment and saw when did you created this account of yours then I laughed. Yup you pussy fuck is part of the problem.


So FUCKING what if Varian was an impulsive son of the bitch for fuck sake it is a video game! Not real life! See! This is the fucking problem with people like you! You treat everything like some kind of "but it has to deliver a morale lessons to be good" fuck that. I want to play a video game that has entertaining storyline and action. Not some kind of morale compass lessons that we as a players and consumers should learn from!


Trollbane developments? When did that happen? He was basically under utilized for years and years and the last time we saw him do anything at all was in BfA in Warfront where he was one of the Alliance faction leaders and want some blood from the Horde. Yet somehow magically go 3 expansions later suddenly he is all about mercy and being passive? Where is that developments you talk about enlighten me please haha

And before BfA he was in Outland chilling in TBC expansion so yeah where is that developments show me?


So fucking what if Garrosh was racaist bastard the story direction was more fun. We had those racism since The RTS games characters like Garithos from the Alliance but back then people like you were in the minority.


Thrall was a bad ass and back then yes he want peace for his people but at the same time he knows full well when to act and I still like him to this day but even Thrall suffered from the current writing team.

I will not be surprised if they rename the Paladin spell Hammer of Justice to Flower of kindness or something like that.


I guess you are one of those who think the Warcraft name is intimidating eh?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Feels relevant to this conversation: https://www.amazon.com/gp/bestseller...ext/7588730011

Scroll through the top 50 books in Men's Adventure Fiction and reader preferences will be revealed

Damn people are really buying crappy AI boobie books.

[Velshin]

Admitting you have absolutely no clue what PTSD is explains so much about this.

I know what PTSD is but did we ever saw it prolonged in Warcraft 3 when Arthas butchered and culled Stratholme? We briefly saw items in classic called Arthas tears (for the paladin epic mount questline). I dont mind character showing some kind of remorse or PTSD but dont fucking drag it for too long because it will kill the pace of the story and get stale and boring super fast. Thrall showed signs of regrets and sadness when he killed Garrosh in WoD but it was shown briefly thats it. If the current writer did the Thrall killing Garrosh aftermath? Then we would spend half of the WoD quest campaign about Thrall saying "but maaaaah feeling because I haz kill the son of my former friend meeeh sad maaah heart".

[Lorgar Aurelian]

And you didnt mention how the wise dragons who outlive years and years beyond humans age act like some kind of teenagers and just discovered that by standing together they are stronger than being divded and power of friendship always prevail like some kind of shonen anime bullshit in Dragonflight expansion.

To be fair to dragon flight, this is like every dragon story line with all the flights even going back to 2004.

Day of the dragon? They discover they are stronger together and come in at the end to stop deathwing.

WoTA, they spend the first half talking about how they should stand togather to stop the demons, then do it successfully only to be betrayed.

Cata, you guessed it they realize they can stand togather and stop deathwing again for the second time.

[Boomer Thor]

would unironicall love a warcraft arpg

[Throwawayx]

The "coherent identity" of WoW is that we're slaying internet dragons for imaginary loot. The story has always been, and always will be, window dressing. You like the window dressing one color, other people like it a different color.

That doesn't mean identity doesn’t matter. The "window dressing" is what gives context to why people care about killing those dragons in the first place. WoW didn't last 20 years on mechanics alone. Its world, tone, and themes are part of what made it stick. and it's what sets it apart from other settings and games. Coherence isn't about one "correct color", it's about not repainting the house to chase imaginary audiences.

People didn't fall in love with the game because of "slaying dragons" alone - they fell in love with a specific fantasy. If the story truly didn't matter, Blizzard wouldn't spend millions on cinematics, novels, books, and marketing built around it. Clearly they at least believe that identity matters. It's what they marketed their next three expansions on - Warcraft. Wanting it to be coherent isn't asking for one taste - it's asking for internal consistency.

Take your own advice and find a game that has the identity you're seeking. All you're doing here is pretending REAL Warcraft enjoyers (ie, people who think the story should be a certain way) are the only voices worth listening to.

You're again making a strawman. I'm not saying that only one kind of fan matters, but a franchise with an established identity can't just shrug and become whatever's most broadly palatable without losing what made it distinct in the first place.

You're also conflating "having an identity" with "excluding people", which isn't what I'm arguing either. Wanting Warcraft to remain recognizable as Warcraft isn't gatekeeping - it's literally how long-running creative works survive.

Fans didn't invent Warcraft's tone, themes, or world. Blizzard did. Wanting consistency with that foundation isn't claiming ownership, it's simply asking for continuity and consistency as opposed to sanding down the franchise into generic fantasy slop.

By your logic, any criticism of creative direction can be dismissed with "go somewhere else", which conveniently means that a franchise never has to justify its own creative choices. People aren't asking for the story to cater to them specifically, they're asking for it to feel intentional and rooted in what Warcraft has historically been.

And what do you say to the fans of the current direction? Do we just tell them to politely fuck off because REAL Warcraft fans like yourself know better? Remind me again how this isn't anything other than pathetic gatekeeping.

Well, first of all, I'm not seeing many fans of the current direction. Do you see them? Can you point me to the places where these people exist? And I'm not telling anyone to leave or that their enjoyment is invalid, anyway. I'm saying that if Warcraft keeps losing its identity, it stops being Warcraft.

Critiquing that isn't gatekeeping - it's evaluating whether the franchise still has a coherent creative direction.

None of those metrics are qualifiable. View counts on cinematics are fully irrelevant. BfA's cinematic has more than Wrath's because we've got Sylv simps jorkin' it to that travesty five times a day. The memorability of characters is entirely subjective and will vary from player to player. The same with quotability. Community enthusiasm is reliant on factors well outside of the quality of the story. There is still just as much community these days as any other time, and, if anything, it's easier than ever to find people to play with through Discords and twitch communities. I get the generally negative sentiment, but I can't think of a time in WoW's two decades where there wasn't a vocally negative subsection of the playerbase.

I'm not demanding unobtainable evidence. I'm asking you to reckon with the possibility that simply making WoW's story more serious isn't a magical panacea for the game's problems. Cynically, I also feel like people who profess to know better than the people making the game are often the ones who are the last people they should be listening to, but that's just because you guys tend to be the most litigous and annoying about the problems you identify.

Your dismissal of all secondary indicators doesn't make sense. We routinely use them to evaluate whether a piece of media has resonated with the audience. BfA's cinematic is popular because it's quintessential Warcraft - Horde vs Alliance involving popular, likeable characters like Sylvanas, Saurfang, Anduin or Genn.

View counts on cinematics are not "fully irrelevant". They're one measurable proxy for engagement, and when you pair them with other signals - like declining forum activity, fewer community-driven story discussions, weaker lore content traction, and the repeated complaints about the story being bad - a pattern emerges.

Character memorability is subjective, but subjective doesn't mean meaningless. It's pretty easy to tell when a character lands with the audience. You get an influx of fan art, cosplays, discussions etc. If a franchise repeatedly fails to produce characters that resonate, that is a measurable trend in collective response.

Community enthusiasm isn't entirely independent of story. You can't separate the narrative from the emotional investment players have in the world. When the story stops feeling compelling, when the characters are uninteresting, players stop caring as much about the game as a whole. Blizzard knows it too, that's why they have always made big budget CGI cinematics for every expansion (except Midnight, I guess). It's to get people excited and invested.

And no, "there's always been a negative subsection" doesn't invalidate the idea that there has been a notable decline in enthusiasm, particularly around the narrative. Watch some of the older cinematics they presented at Blizzcon or even Gamescom (WoD) - they're full of loud cheers and genuine hype. That kind of response is much harder to manufacture, and it's noticeably less common in the more recent era.

The question isn't whether some people complain - that has always been true - but whether the overall tone of engagement has weakened, and there's plenty of evidence that it has.

I'm also not saying that a "serious story" fixes everything. For many, WoW's narrative appears unsalvageable and they have long given up. I'm saying that a consistent, coherent creative identity rooted in Warcraft matters, and the recent direction has weakened that identity.

And the "people who think they know better than the developers" line is a weird defense. Fans are allowed to critique a product, unless you're a mindless consumer. The issue is whether the critique is valid, not whether it's loud. If a game is trending in a direction that many players find unsatisfying, it's not "litigious" to point it out. Blizzard itself routinely asks for feedback on various aspects of the game, and many times community feedback has led to improvements that have benefited everyone. I don't buy your idea that the only options are "shut up" or "leave". You're starting to resemble the "leave the multibillion corporation alone" guy by having these positions.

[Mecheon]

I took a moment and saw when did you created this account of yours then I laughed. Yup you pussy fuck is part of the problem.


So FUCKING what if Varian was an impulsive son of the bitch for fuck sake it is a video game! Not real life! See! This is the fucking problem with people like you! You treat everything like some kind of "but it has to deliver a morale lessons to be good" fuck that. I want to play a video game that has entertaining storyline and action. Not some kind of morale compass lessons that we as a players and consumers should learn from!

We hated him. That's what. Like, the Alliance players fucking hated Varian when he was introduced. We hated him in WotLK, he did very little of import in Cata and was just sort of there, and we especially hated him during MoP when he was a scene hogger who wouldn't let anyone else have the spotlight and had to leap in at every oppertunity and go "ITS ME, VARIAN, HERE TO STEAL THE SPOTLIGHT FROM SOMEONE MORE INTERESTING!" every chance he got. About the only time we stopped hating him in Legion was when he died

Trollbane developments? When did that happen? He was basically under utilized for years and years and the last time we saw him do anything at all was in BfA in Warfront where he was one of the Alliance faction leaders and want some blood from the Horde. Yet somehow magically go 3 expansions later suddenly he is all about mercy and being passive? Where is that developments you talk about enlighten me please haha

And before BfA he was in Outland chilling in TBC expansion so yeah where is that developments show me?

Trollbane is a fucking non-character who showed up in TBC, did nothing until he got a glorified cameo in BfA. He barely has a personality

Also like. BfA to Dragonflight is 7 years in-game time. man i wonder how years of peace might make someone's outlook change on the world

So fucking what if Garrosh was racaist bastard the story direction was more fun. We had those racism since The RTS games characters like Garithos from the Alliance but back then people like you were in the minority.

No one liked Garithos, who was set up as someone to die and an ineffective villain, and Garrosh' most interesting portrayal of him was the Stonetalon Mountain quests which got a big fat 'oh that didn't happen'. This really isn't a good argument. I'm not sure what your point is here?