Interview with WoW lead: Warcraft needs to be more than “simply an MMORPG"

[Hitei]

Metzen saying this show to me he is already dead inside and drank the soy milk, all the people who hoped he would put wow back in trails can throw the dream in the trashcan.

he really seems to have changed his outlook.

Metzen didn't drink anything.

As was continually pointed out to you people for years, he was never "your heckin' guy". The dude wrote the first short story for Warcraft and it's a story about how a human paladin learns he's actually racist and has been living in privilege. He was openly the one who spearheaded walking back sexualization of female characters because he's a father with two daughters. He is the person who wrote MoP, an expansion about how war is bad and you should listen to your effeminate son about peace being worthwhile and violence not being the answer. He is the guy who wrote a Warcraft children's book about bullying. He is the guy who lead the narrative of Overwatch, the very deliberately diverse, multicultural hero organization that is first and foremost made up of scientists and activists and people trying to help, not those seeking violence.

Your inability to realize he's been hitting you over the head with the same "war is not good, you should work together" stick since WC3 and refusal to acknowledge it being the same guy who wholesale approved Overwatch being advertised via pixar-styled cinematics about baby gorillas, robots with bird friends and interracial robot-human couples, and who wrote silly drunk, food-loving pandas who abhor violence in MoP, and who retconned the Eredar into actually having been peaceful light-worshipping good guys who were corrupted by the Legion--doesn't change that he was always that person.

[tromage2]

‘Chris Metzen has sometimes thought they shouldn't have called it Warcraft, believing the name may sound too intimidating’

(…) no words, this confirms it when even a title is triggering the guy that needs to put the soul back into this franchise then its pretty mutch a done deal we will never get a serieus tone back and can i ask Metzen what (metally stable) player did he ever encounter that was intimidated by the word: warcraft… I would really laugh if we soon get a name change into world of peacecraft but maybe the word ‘world’ or ‘peace’ might be intimidating for some people LOL.

[Kathranis]

It all seems very vague.

The descriptions of Warcraft being more than an MMORPG, or wanting it to be more approachable, is understandable. The issue isn't the tone, but rather the decades of haphazardly bolted-together narratives and gameplay systems.

I'm not one of those "Blizzard is making the game too Disney" guys, but I think every time they release a project like Hearthstone or Warcraft Rumble, they blunt the appeal of the franchise. Hearthstone is fine, Warcraft has always had a comical side, but we don't need multiple silly reimaginings of Warcraft.

I want more projects that hit the same tone of the main games, where they can actually tell stories that fit into the canon.

A new entry point for the franchise that can ease players into the story and setting would probably help a lot.


As for the "third space" stuff, that basically sounds like the approach they're taking to Housing, by having neighborhoods be an area for players to hang out and do things that aren't directly tied to playing the main game. My guess is that the Housing team might keep growing features that are self-contained and focused on socializing, in addition to the elements that hook into the rest of the game. I could see them wanting to make Housing more accessible to new players and then perhaps trying to convert them into the main game from there.

[elderu]

-snip-

Your inability to realize he's been hitting you over the head with the same "war is not good, you should work together" stick since WC3
-snip-

Look you're not wrong, Metzen has always been a big softy at heart. But this 'one or the other' arguement you're forming isn't going to gel or have the impact you want.

You have to show war to show that war is wrong. If the name can't even have War, and if the narrative can't have War, then nobody will learn anything.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Look you're not wrong, Metzen has always been a big softy at heart. But this 'one or the other' arguement you're forming isn't going to gel or have the impact you want.

You have to show war to show that war is wrong. If the name can't even have War, and if the narrative can't have War, then nobody will learn anything.

It’s not like they ever stopped showing the war though TWW has us at war with the Nurbians while also reinforcing that just being a gross bug doesn’t make you bad and it’s corrupt individuals that are the problem just like every other wow story.

And midnight is set to have both the war with the Amani and the void lead to various “war bad” story’s with the over zealousness of some of light users leading to us fighting them and then Liadrin coming to terms with the Amani as people not just enemies.

Milage may vary with how it’s written but we’re still getting the core Metzen esc war bad story’s.

[McNeil]

Warcraft would do well on the big screen if they made a show or a movie trilogy centered around Arthas. Lots of other video game franchises are doing it, they can’t seem to keep up the trend.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

I can understand where they are coming from when they say they should have probably not called the franchise "Warcraft" as they probably feel they've backed themselves into a corner narratively. That makes sense. It does not help that people continuously cry that the "war" in "Warcraft" is missing.

That does not necessarily mean they should regret using "war" in their name. The term "Warcraft" is very identifiable and does not have to reflect narratives of constant bloodshed, as well as all the tropes that come it.

Maybe they could have used "Lands of Conflict" or whatever cool naming convention they once used in their older RPG media... and even then people would criticize them for forgetting the "conflict" in the name.

[username993720]

Spoiler: 

I have a bad feeling for whatever she plans for the game. I believe her intentions are to make it as less warcraft as it can be (supported by that baffling quote someone posted of the name being intimidating )

[mbit2]

It's a corporation so they want to future-proof the brand as much as possible, this isn't that wild. The same way that 25-year-olds in 2005 are nothing like 25-year-olds in 2025, stuff is obviously going to have to change.

Personal feelings aside, it would be idiotic of them to assume that the current batch of OG 40-50 year-olds are going to keep invested in this IP much longer.

Full correct on issue, however doubt their proposal will work.
Their examples sound like they think copying vrchat/ gta rp server next is the way which seems misguided. Who is gonna pay for a knockoff of a free game? Especially not kids without money.

[Cheezits]

Full correct on issue, however doubt their proposal will work.
Their examples sound like they think copying vrchat/ gta rp server next is the way which seems misguided. Who is gonna pay for a knockoff of a free game? Especially not kids without money.

Very likely World of Warcraft will become F2P if they truly want it to be a Fortnite expy.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Spoiler: 

I have a bad feeling for whatever she plans for the game. I believe her intentions are to make it as less warcraft as it can be (supported by that baffling quote someone posted of the name being intimidating )

The quote is apparently from Metzen with Holly’s response being that warhammer doesn’t have that problem.

So it’s the dirty girl who’s holding up the validity of darker warhammer esc themes some people pretend wow had.

[SpaceMistakes]

They should expand the IP in other genres. Make a Skyrim style WoW game with a customizable protagonist, a souls-like, etc. Or a BG3-style WoW game with deep, turn-based gameplay and a reactive story.

[Mecheon]

You have to show war to show that war is wrong. If the name can't even have War, and if the narrative can't have War, then nobody will learn anything.

We had that in BfA. It was one of the most mediocre expansions in the game's history and directly lead into the worst. We don't need to retread old concepts every few expansions like we're a Saturday morning cartoon where Skeletor has forgotten the meaning of Christmas.


Also like, in terms of the 'more than simply an MMORPG', I do feel it necessary to point out that a lot of WoW's success back in the day was due to it being, in effect, a social space. It was that third space they're talking about

[Illuminance]

As was continually pointed out to you people for years, he was never "your heckin' guy".

Of course he was. He was the creative director. He had to create, or at least sign off on, the conflict, the dark themes, the character designs, and the narrative.

Your notion that all of these players, each with potentially tens of thousands of hours invested in the franchise, are somehow experiencing a collective hallucination just makes you sound like you are out in left field.

Even in this thread, multiple people immediately had the same reaction to the Metzen quote, but you seem to think you are doing everyone a service by swooping in to explain that Warcraft was always supposed to be Overwatch Friendship Simulator.

We are still talking about the game where the opening cutscene is a showcase of members of various races beating each other to smithereens. Warcraft has a lot going on. There are morals to the story. The overarching message is not war=good, but war and conflict are central to the franchise. Or at least that's how it used to be.

[Biomega]

WoW's biggest problem is that it's all about WoW - a 20+ year-old dinosaur game. The IP will never expand and evolve as long as that's the core product. But making a new core product is monumentally difficult. They're basically selling they want more stuff to orbit WoW and drawn in people - but how many new people can you really draw in with a legacy product?

This seems like a nice corpo-speak dream, "we want to do more" yada yada... But the reality is, they're on a sinking ship. It's sinking slowly, to be sure, and it's still got plenty of ship left in it - but it's never going to be a sleek super-yacht. It's a rusting hulk. That's just what it is.

I don't think ancillary products are going to make a dent. They might bump things momentarily here and there, but they will never be game changers.

[Polybius]

54830716[/URL]]It's very hard to understand what she is getting at, because it seems unclear what parts of this are about World of Warcraft and what parts are about doing wholly separate things with the IP. As far as WoW goes, the increasingly seasonal and proscriptive nature of the game is in stark contrast to what she is saying. The game tells you exactly when, how, and why to do anything in it. It's become aggressively anti-emergent-gameplay.

By the sound of it, they want to expand on game modes and potentially other games outside the core MMO. Similar to what Fortnite and other multiplayer games have been doing.

I think Plunderstorm, Remix and Prop Hunt were just the beginning.

[elderu]

We had that in BfA. It was one of the most mediocre expansions in the game's history and directly lead into the worst. We don't need to retread old concepts every few expansions like we're a Saturday morning cartoon where Skeletor has forgotten the meaning of Christmas.

Zones Count:
BFA: 6 at launch, 2 in patches. (Zuldazar, Nazmir, Vol'dun, Tirigarde, Stormsong, Drustvar. + Mechagon and Nazjatar (not counting island expeditions or revamped Arathi Highlands/Darkshore)
TWW: 4 at launch, 2 in patches. (Isle of Dorn, Ringing Deeps, Hallowfall, Azj-Kahet. + (Not counting Siren Isle, an island expedition.)

Race Count:
BFA: 6 (Dark Irons, Maghar, Kul'Tiran, Zandalari, Mechagnome, Vulpera) (Not even counting the first 4 allied races from pre-order.)
TWW: 1 (Earthen)

Raid Count:
BFA: 5 (Uldir, Crucible of the Storms, Dazar'alor, Eternal Palace, Nya'lotha)
TWW: 3 (Nerub'ar Palace, Liberation of Undermine, Manaforge Omega)

Dungeon Count:
BFA: 10 at launch, 1 megadungeon in patches.
TWW: 8 at launch, 2 in patches.

Character Utilization:
BFA: Saurfang, Sylvanas, Thrall, Anduin, Genn, Tyrande, Malfurion, Shandris, Nathanos, Baine, Jaina & the Proudmoore family, Rastakhan, Vol'jin, Rohkan, Rexxar, Calia Menethil, Eitrigg, Lor'themar, Magni, Gallywix, Gazlowe, Mekkatorque, Wrathion,

TWW: Magni, Moira, Dagran, Alleria, Locus Walker, Anduin, (Faerin new), Danath, Gazlowe, Gallywix, (Turalyon minorly), Noggenfogger/Revilgaz

Cinematic Count:
BFA: 4 (Lordaeron + Old Soldier episodes)
TWW: 2 (Thrall/Anduin and Launch character showcase cinematic.)

Features:
BFA: Island Expeditions (11), Warfronts (2), Visions of N'zoth (2)
TWW: Delves (16)

yea.. BFA is just so mediocre, and TWW is a massive turnaround /s

[Wilian]

This may be a polarizing topic for this website.

https://frvr.com/blog/news/world-of-...ply-an-mmorpg/



(In my opinion) WoW should definitely expand out of the MMORPG genre solely, but still retain the core MMORPG elements. This notion, of course, is highly debated with a majority voice saying that WoW has long since lost its MMORPG identity. There is much truth to that, yes.

I think the direction they have been going in the last 4 expansions is the right one, but perhaps they are too focused on moving in that direction. The advent of many different Classic WoW releases going on at the same time, I feel, is Blizzard's way of allowing people to play those more distinct MMORPG oriented versions of the game for those who decry the current state of retail.

I guess we'll see in another 20 years.

I mean they could make another one of those games that made Warcraft a thing.. Sort of massively popular thing... Like one of them RTS games.

[Mecheon]

Zones Count:
BFA: 6 at launch, 2 in patches. (Zuldazar, Nazmir, Vol'dun, Tirigarde, Stormsong, Drustvar. + Mechagon and Nazjatar (not counting island expeditions or revamped Arathi Highlands/Darkshore)
TWW: 4 at launch, 2 in patches. (Isle of Dorn, Ringing Deeps, Hallowfall, Azj-Kahet. + (Not counting Siren Isle, an island expedition.)

Race Count:
BFA: 6 (Dark Irons, Maghar, Kul'Tiran, Zandalari, Mechagnome, Vulpera) (Not even counting the first 4 allied races from pre-order.)
TWW: 1 (Earthen)

Raid Count:
BFA: 5 (Uldir, Crucible of the Storms, Dazar'alor, Eternal Palace, Nya'lotha)
TWW: 3 (Nerub'ar Palace, Liberation of Undermine, Manaforge Omega)

Dungeon Count:
BFA: 10 at launch, 1 megadungeon in patches.
TWW: 8 at launch, 2 in patches.

Character Utilization:
BFA: Saurfang, Sylvanas, Thrall, Anduin, Genn, Tyrande, Malfurion, Shandris, Nathanos, Baine, Jaina & the Proudmoore family, Rastakhan, Vol'jin, Rohkan, Rexxar, Calia Menethil, Eitrigg, Lor'themar, Magni, Gallywix, Gazlowe, Mekkatorque, Wrathion,

TWW: Magni, Moira, Dagran, Alleria, Locus Walker, Anduin, (Faerin new), Danath, Gazlowe, Gallywix, (Turalyon minorly), Noggenfogger/Revilgaz

Cinematic Count:
BFA: 4 (Lordaeron + Old Soldier episodes)
TWW: 2 (Thrall/Anduin and Launch character showcase cinematic.)

Features:
BFA: Island Expeditions (11), Warfronts (2), Visions of N'zoth (2)
TWW: Delves (16)

yea.. BFA is just so mediocre, and TWW is a massive turnaround /s

Yes, BfA was mediocre. This is, not a rare or unusual opinion, its the general consensus. Like, the only reason its not in the worst expansions is because Shadowlands happened directly afterwards and took some of the worst parts from BfA and just went spiralling directly into the ground with them. The points you've brought up didn't suddenly make BfA a good expansion, erase the generally disliked plot, even mention the disliked mechanics like azerite traits (lol at acting like warfronts were a major feature rather than crashing and burning) or bring up this was the expansion that finally broke the faction divide to the point where they haven't developed faction specific content since, and had to open raids up to both factions due to how dead the Alliance was during the time

If you're trying to convince me the "Let's give one faction the highly requested little fox guys and the other faction can get diaper gnomes" expansion was actually decent, then. Lol. lmao.

[Just Passing through]

This interview should basically kill off MMOC's interest in the game as it confirms they aren't changing the quality of minor patches and they aren't returning to the vibes of classic wow.

You mean the forum that has 2666 active members of which now 89 members are online and 7506 guests?

I kinda think the devs get their input from somewhere else and we are just taking us waaaaaay to seriously. Also maybe I am watching to many youtube videos about MMOs shitting the bed that I think WoW doesn't really have major quality problems. At least not as long as the alternatives aren't picking up the ball in a significant way.

Why else would we have like at least 10 years of "Hoping for a new MMO that will breath in a fresh wind and "save" the genre" - but mostly getting New World and Ashes of Creation catastrophies.

But meh...apparently Aion 2 is kinda nice