Dragonflight and TWW

[SL1200]

Dragonflight was one of my favorite expansions, Tww built on top of that with delves, and this new expansion is even better. Big time fan of the modern wow and don't feel nostalgic for any of the crappy in comparison old expansions.

[doledippers]

Dragonflight was one of my favorite expansions, Tww built on top of that with delves, and this new expansion is even better. Big time fan of the modern wow and don't feel nostalgic for any of the crappy in comparison old expansions.

yeah, basically my perspective as well. really enjoyed DF and TWW was essentially DF with more stuff and more refined. though i do miss the waking shores music

[McNeil]

The only thing that sticks out from DF for me is the introduction of dragonriding. Lorewise there was nothing ''cool'' that happened, and I couldn't care for any of the characters. Like who the hell is Scalecommander Sarkareth from the Aberrus raid? I remember him briefly from some quests in the drac'thyr starting area, but nothing about him makes him fit to be the final boss of a big raid. Raszageth and Fyrakk were just alright, just a badshit bird/dragon who really didn't like the aspects and just wanted to kill things.

TWW really felt like a filler expansion with how little things happened. Like you start off with Xal'atath and her Dark Heart, and it ends with............... Xal'atath and her Dark Heart... but at least its a bit stronger now? At least Undermine stood out but it was also contained in its own patch, not that there is anything wrong with it. As for features it didn't introduce anything as good as dragonriding so its hard to look back at this expansion as anything special. I guess they gave us playable earthen... lol.

BFA and SL had insane amounts of attention when it was current. People still cared about the lore and most WoW events could get insane viewers on Twitch, although most of it was by Asmongold when he was still playing. I think one thing that might be the blame is considering how bad SL turned out, people just stopped caring much about WoW altogether which is why you don't see DF and TWW being looked back much as people weren't talking about it nearly as much compared to BFA/SL. Its all speculation but this sounds the most likely to me.

[ArenaDk]

Yeah you really feel how blizzard went full Disney after warcraft 1 beta build 4 :/

[Arikara]

If you're referring to Beledar, the crystal acting as the "sun" of Hallowfall, it was essentially the main source of conflict in the zone's campaign story and is connected to the wider story arc concerning the worldsoul, which is at the heart of the greater narrative of The Worldsoul Saga. Beledar is basically a huge chunk of Azerite that demonstrates the worldsoul's plight after being damaged by Sargeras' stabbing the world itself with his sword at the close of Legion. It ceased radiating holy Light at the moment and began to vacillate between Light and Shadow, indicating that the worldsoul itself had been damaged or changed by the attack.

TL;DR: Beledar is Azeroth's "Check Engine" light, and it's flashing that the worldsoul is in critical need of maintenance.

So you agree with the person you were replying to. It's retcon garbage bullcrap that didn't matter and shouldn't be there.

[Aucald]

So you agree with the person you were replying to. It's retcon garbage bullcrap that didn't matter and shouldn't be there.

No, I'm explaining the significance of Beledar to the greater story of the WSS - which, while it isn't hugely significant in and of itself, it does have a notable place in the ongoing story. As for it being a retcon, you'd have to provide some example of what it is retconning. To my knowledge, it's an entirely heretofore unknown story element we just learned about in TWW, with nothing it would otherwise serve as a retcon for.

[Arikara]

it does have a notable place in the ongoing story.

The problem there is that the ongoing story is an embarassing laughing stock.

As for it being a retcon, you'd have to provide some example of what it is retconning. To my knowledge, it's an entirely heretofore unknown story element we just learned about in TWW, with nothing it would otherwise serve as a retcon for.

The retcon lies in that crappy Chronicle chart of the six cosmic flavors, which retconned the world itself to be centered upon the shallow nonsense that they came up with to characterize that awful chart, and which continues to be a pernicious poison upon the old worldbuilding. It inevitably twists anything and everything touched by it to only become another mouthpiece for these ill-considered cosmic forces. This shiny rock is just another example of this decay in writing quality; instead of having complex characters who are capable of being their own actors in a story that's about people making choices, we have "characters" who are really just the mouthpieces of a given cosmic flavor, with a dynamic that's as predictably played-out as it is eye-rolly. The rock is not the problem, but it sure is laughable.

[Aucald]

The retcon lies in that crappy Chronicle chart of the six cosmic flavors, which retconned the world itself to be centered upon the shallow nonsense that they came up with to characterize that awful chart, and which continues to be a pernicious poison upon the old worldbuilding. It inevitably twists anything and everything touched by it to only become another mouthpiece for these ill-considered cosmic forces. This shiny rock is just another example of this decay in writing quality; instead of having complex characters who are capable of being their own actors in a story that's about people making choices, we have "characters" who are really just the mouthpieces of a given cosmic flavor, with a dynamic that's as predictably played-out as it is eye-rolly. The rock is not the problem, but it sure is laughable.

I'm not really seeing a retcon there. Even if you want to declare the Chronicle cosmology as a retcon, which I'd generally accept, that retcon happened 8 years ago. Beledar also isn't a "character" by any stretch of the term, nor is it a mouthpiece, and it doesn't make any statements. Even in the original cosmology, Beledar could still exist without any actual changes to what it fundamentally is or does - since Light and Void predate Chronicle Vol. 1, even if they didn't have the same relationship to the rest of the metacosm. They were also fundamental opposites in the original cosmology.

[Arikara]

I'm not really seeing a retcon there. Even if you want to declare the Chronicle cosmology as a retcon, which I'd generally accept, that retcon happened 8 years ago.

And I've been complaining about it ever since, and will continue to do so for as long as it continues to wreak damage on the lore and the world.

Beledar also isn't a "character" by any stretch of the term, nor is it a mouthpiece, and it doesn't make any statements.

Are you sure about that? While I must hasten to add that I really do not care about this rock... but were you not just saying that it is a huge chunk of "azerite", the blood of the "worldsoul", and which is corrupted by the interference of at least one cosmic flavor? It is a rock which asks the question, "ooooooh isn't it scawy that the 'worldsoul is maybe possibly being hurt and corrupted, shouldn't we be really concerned about that". But because every bit of that equation is built upon the quicksand of a retcon and the bad writing associated with it, the whole conceit of the "worldsoul saga" falls apart immediately.

since Light and Void predate Chronicle Vol. 1, even if they didn't have the same relationship to the rest of the metacosm. They were also fundamental opposites in the original cosmology.

There was no 'void' as any kind of entity in Wc3. But very well, I'll accept that void/shadow was well-written and characterized at least from Vanilla and up to WotLK, where we have the examples of Ashbringer, M'uru, and Yoggy to look to. These were fine.

The problem that we have is that these cosmic flavors have now been retconned to have a personality and an agenda, and to act as recurring villains. But they're always paper-thin. The void, especially, is over-used nonsense that only wears a skin-deep affectation of mysteriousness that pretends to have a deeper meaning, but in practice really doesn't. And now we have this sickening example of the light being retconned into being 'evil and control-obsessed sometimes actually', with the first hints of that stupidity appearing in WoD and Legion, and now being on full display as the nonsense it is.

You know what's cool about having a power like the light? Using it to have your Wc3 Paladin cast Holy Light and Resurrection to be a genuine protector, and matching it against the encroachments of the Scourge. Like a righteous tool, but one which is at the command of the character - not the other way around. This absolute nonsense that the light has an agenda, a plan, and that using it too much will make you evil actually, is absurd.

And it's the same crap for any of the cosmic flavors. Instead of the Legion being a major entity filled with its own cast of powerful demonic characters who can choose for themselves... really, they're all just slaves of "Chaos", dancing to the same tired tune.

[Schwert]

Boring filler slop.
A few good side quests and a return to former systems does not make a good expansion.

Dragonflight didn't even feel like a Warcraft game and ruined several characters.
TWW was just bland besides Undermine.

The playable races were also hot trash.
No transmog lizard / dragon race? Stupid. The visage form crap could have just gone to existing races.

Earthen are somehow right down there with mechagnomes and noooobody could have seen that coming.

Midnight at least feels somewhat Warcraft.

[Aucald]

Are you sure about that? While I must hasten to add that I really do not care about this rock... but were you not just saying that it is a huge chunk of "azerite", the blood of the "worldsoul", and which is corrupted by the interference of at least one cosmic flavor? It is a rock which asks the question, "ooooooh isn't it scawy that the 'worldsoul is maybe possibly being hurt and corrupted, shouldn't we be really concerned about that". But because every bit of that equation is built upon the quicksand of a retcon and the bad writing associated with it, the whole conceit of the "worldsoul saga" falls apart immediately.

Yes, and generally speaking, a giant rock isn't usually considered to be a "character" unless it has some form of sapience or sentience, and Beledar has neither. Also, in terms of narrative continuity and cohesion, the state of the worldsoul is critical to pretty much everyone in the story's world. The cosmological retcons of Chronicle change nothing of the equation of the wouldsoul's corruption being bad news - it was bad news when the Old Gods were actively corrupting it in the Classic/Vanilla story arc of Ahn'Qiraj, and it's bad news now. In that regard, the continuity of the Worldsoul Saga is unchanged from that of Classic, TBC, WotLK, and Cata, all part of pre-Chronicle lore.

There was no 'void' as any kind of entity in Wc3. But very well, I'll accept that void/shadow was well-written and characterized at least from Vanilla and up to WotLK, where we have the examples of Ashbringer, M'uru, and Yoggy to look to. These were fine.

The Void as a force does appear in WC3, as that's where Voidwalkers come from, as well as several other Void-related entities. The Void wasn't as quantified as it is in the more modern era, of course, but it's still mentioned both as a force and as a location in some cases.

The problem that we have is that these cosmic flavors have now been retconned to have a personality and an agenda, and to act as recurring villains. But they're always paper-thin. The void, especially, is over-used nonsense that only wears a skin-deep affectation of mysteriousness that pretends to have a deeper meaning, but in practice really doesn't. And now we have this sickening example of the light being retconned into being 'evil and control-obsessed sometimes actually', with the first hints of that stupidity appearing in WoD and Legion, and now being on full display as the nonsense it is.

The Void more exemplifies the trope of "power at a price," said price being madness. The Void Lords certainly have an agenda, or multiple agendas as befits the chaotic nature of the Void, but the Void itself doesn't seem to have one outside of granting power and madness in equal measure. The Light, by contrast, seeks to unify and grant clarity of purpose, but at the possibility of zealotry and single-minded obsession, befitting its role as the Void's opposite both philosophically and fundamentally. I'd argue both the Void and the Light function on more of a blue/orange morality than a strict black/white or good/evil dichotomy. Their users impute their own moralities onto them, or are twisted by them, but that's not really an axiomatic quality of either force.

You know what's cool about having a power like the light? Using it to have your Wc3 Paladin cast Holy Light and Resurrection to be a genuine protector, and matching it against the encroachments of the Scourge. Like a righteous tool, but one which is at the command of the character - not the other way around. This absolute nonsense that the light has an agenda, a plan, and that using it too much will make you evil actually, is absurd.

I don't think "using too much" Light makes you evil by any means, but that overindulging in any of the greater powers of the Warcraft metacosm comes with the attendant risk that they reinforce and/or resonate with an individual's baser qualities. Awareness of this relationship grants a degree of control over it - whereas denial of it, well, leaves you open to its influence. This is why characters like Khadgar or Alleria can use massive amounts of such primal powers like Arcane and Void and remain more or less themselves, whereas others aren't as fortunate. The Light, specifically, has been seen as morally dubious for as long as the Scarlet Brotherhood as been around - with the open question as to why people who are objectively hateful and driven by pathological zealotry can still tap into a power that is typically viewed as unambiguously "good." Alonsus Faol basically underscores this in Midnight, positing that far from the Light having an agenda, it's actually incapable of deriving any form of moral imperative from a user's actual intent. Basically put, as long as you have the will and force of character to invoke the Light, it'll respond to you, even if you're a moral black hole.

[Doffen]

Did not care much for Dragonflight, but The War Within was much more fun to me. But I am very influenced of thematic stuff. So while Dragonflight had some zone stuff, it felt just like a waste of time, while in The War Within it had a greater purpose to the story. Like the one in Hallowfall. I really enjoyed those kind of things, not to mention dungeons, music, zones and at least; DELVES were much more to my liking. Raids as well a lot more memorable imo. Fyrakk as OP says felt really dull as an end expansion boss, and the entire dragon thing was kinda boring.

[Aucald]

I'd say my biggest criticism of Dragonflight is that it was ultimately a bottle story with no real impact on the greater story arc of WoW. The story of Dragonflight itself wasn't bad, per se; it just has no real longer-term consequences and no real impact on the stories that followed. Right now, sitting at the culmination of Midnight's first arc, you could gloss over Dragonflight in its entirety without issue - none of its events even needed to happen for TWW or Midnight to be what they are story-wise. Even though Dragonflight is where Iridikron was introduced, Iridikron has such a small footprint in the story so far that you could have Xal'atath claim the Dark Heart without explanation, and it wouldn't really alter much. Same with the newly-reempowered Aspects, they're completely absent in TWW, and thus far in Midnight, so their whole storyline in Dragonflight doesn't mean much. This could, of course, change in TLT if either Iridikron or the Aspects become important in its events (which I fully expect both to), but so far, Dragonflight remains on the same level of diversionary bottle story that WoD ultimately was.

[Velshin]

Some people here think I am shitting and calling Dragonflight and TWW as bad expansions. That is not the case at all I like them both and I do think both of them are much much better than BfA and SL expansions for sure.

However, what I meant by forgetable that both Dragonflight and TWW for personally didnt have something to standout like in BfA we had that bad ass opening cinematic of the expansion (the best WoW opening expansion cinematic imo) and we had that Saurfang duel with Sylvanas. In SL we had the opening cinematic with Bolvar and Sylvanas etcs etcs. We didnt have stuff like that in Dragonflight and TWW.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Out of the last decade of Retail WoW expansions, the only one I stuck around and remained subbed for longer than usual was Dragonflight. For all of the others, I resubbed, got caught up on the story and toured the raids, and then lost interest in playing.

Legion: I remember it being really, really boring. The class order hall storylines were really short, and overall terribly written. You did them and then forgot about them. Dalaran was boring. The launch zones were boring. Couldn't care less about Aszuna, Highmountain, Stormheim, etc. I don't like doing tedious chores, so I never progressed Suramar at the time. Didn't see a reason to care about M+ back then. I did tank normal Antorus PUGs and even a few heroic bosses on my blood DK, and did the tank mage tower challenge. I did get a few vicious saddle mounts from RBGs, and made a frost mage alt and got a saddle mount from doing 3v3 arena PUGs. Never again!

BFA: The War of Thorns questline was AWESOME! Finally, we get to do some WARCRAFT! I liked veering right on the path, invading Ashenvale, massacring nelf villages, rolling into Darkshore, seeing the frontline stretch across a ravine with catapults firing at huge ents on the other side lobbying rocks at us, etc. I was hoping that was what the expansion was going to be like. Unfortunately, launch day happened, I did the Battle for Lordaeron scenario... and then I am running around Zandalar and Kul'tiras doing menial chores and low level pirate investigation quests, instead of fighting in the epic world war. I went to Vol'dun and lost interest at the snake temple. On Alliance, I finished Drustvar and lost interest in the questing, so I just spammed island expeditions to reach 120. Then I found out that I was locked out of doing world quest (not that there is really any motivation to do them). I joined an Uldir normal PUG, and then unsubbed.

Shadowlands: being able to join a new faction with your preexisting character, and learn a brand new school of magic (not one of the preexisting classes we have already seen before) was really cool. Unfortunately, none of the factions or their leaders were really cool or enticing. I was also hoping that they would have added more Covenant abilities over time, rather than just one generic Covenant ability and then a class ability. I quite liked flying on the hyperspace flightpaths to various different dimensions in this space fantasy setting. I liked the fantasy weather conditions like the raining blood or the falling feathers. Unfortunately, there just was not really anything else going for it once I finished the questing and beat the raid.

I did somewhat like Dragonflight. I usually can't be bothered to do world quest chores, but I REALLY REALLY wanted those Dragonriding customizations, so I would farm the world quests, the races, and the Fyrakk invasions to get them. I also quite enjoyed the Dragonriding races (and the 1,000 gold you get for doing something actually fun!), and getting gold on the normal, advanced, and reverse courses. I also tanked M+ PUGs as a prot paladin and felt powerful and able to save my allies with my blessings, lay on hands, word of glory, etc. I had never really cared about M+ before Dragonflight, but the dungeons were neat and the Armordeons looked cool. I also joined some 10vs10 RBG pug groups and got a few Vicious Saddle mounts (the last time I did so was during Legion). I also rejoined the Moon Guard organized RP campaign scene for a few months, but wasn't liking what I was seeing. It seemed like the gripping faction war and guild vs guild narratives of ye old days were gone, replaced by D&D in WoW where a gathering of 200 players is split up into several different 10 to 20 man groups to /roll 20 against raid markers we pretend are rothide gnolls, and nobody dies. I remained subbed for several months this time.

For TWW, I lost interest really fast after I had PUGed Nerubar Palace normal and finished the base story. There just wasn't anything else going for it. There was no reason to grind world quest chores. I did like the dragonriding races (and the 1,000 gold they gave), but there were no more dragonriding customizations to earn so I was losing interest in that. Delves were neat, but not something you want to do over and over. The M+ mounts did not look cool. I did solo RBGs and got the vicious skyflayer in season 1, and that was the extent of my PvP experience. I resubbed for a month when Undermine came out, did the questline, but then couldn't be bothered to grind up my ilevel just to do an Undermine normal PUG, so I didn't finish the story until housing came out.

Midnight: overall mediocre, and the dragonriding races are gone. . But I do like housing, and I want to continue building out and perfecting my castle, so I will stick around to grind endeavor exp and get more build and room budget. I really hope that the devs add Mogu and Throne of Thunder architecture and decor like bricks and those tall gilded doorways, etc.]


Dragonflight >> Shadowlands > BFA > Midnight = Legion

- - - Updated - - -

I dont know why...even bad expansions like BfA and SL were iconic and memorable except these two I mentioned.

BFA and Shadowlands had a lot of cool appeal to me, at least on paper. BFA with it being marketed as the big world war expac (even if that turned out to be false advertising), and Shadowlands with the new factions to join and new schools of magick to learn. Covenant abilities like Soulshape and Death's Due are far more visually memorable than most hero talents in TWW, where the overwhelming vast majority of them are unnoticeable or disappointing. BFA also had an intriguing premise with Teldrassil being wiped off the face of the earth, the idea being that there would be real stakes and real things happening that I cared about.

Dragonflight had some cool appeal with the customizeable dragon, but there were not enough dragon breeds, not enough customizations, and it had no story relevance.

- - - Updated - - -

I think they lack cool hype moments, wod had em, legion had a bunch, bfa also had some good ones, but df and tww still feel like way better expansions from other aspects

Lack of cool cutscenes is a problem in the questing experience yes, but also a lack of there being energy or cool factor once you finish the questing and enter the world quest chore holding pattern for X weeks or months. WoD was the last time this game introduced cool factions for you to grind when doing dailies, with all of the different powermetal orc clans. Bleeding Hollow orcs, Shadowmoon, Bladefist, etc. Starting with Legion, you are grinding on meh or lame fodder I don't remember. Ghost elves in Aszuna, vrkul in stormheim, some snake people, blue angels, primalists, pft whatever don't care about em, not cool.

Nerubians in TWW were kinda cool, but the content design never made it feel like you were in a threatening war with them. The patch event in Hallowfall where you run around mowing down lots of Nerubians feels lame compared to a GW2 meta event like Dragon's Stand or Drizzlewood Coast where it feels like you are narrowly surviving a big, harrowing war or battle.

- - - Updated - - -

Simple answer - these xpacks are indeed just lame.

Correct. Quality really falls off after MoP and WoD.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, the new flying completely kills inmersion and open world design, you can still play on ground mounts for the leveling experience, but it's not the same as having world content (world quests, reps, world pvp) for the first couple of patches where everyone is grounded and you end up knowing the map and inmersing yourself in it. It's specially sad as a grounded prey experience would be very cool.

But the vast majority of players is completely against limited flying as we've seen again and again. Yet, usually the most praised patches/expansions are grounded (Undermine, Full Legion expansion, Timeless Isle...)

There was a blue post not long ago where they say they agree that a grounded experience would be better and they are monitoring it, but they have no plans to limit flying in future expansions for now.

There are ways to make a game world with flying interesting, such as having enemy dragonriders in the sky who can try to intercept and kill you. Enemy airships peppering the sky with flak you have to dodge, incoming missiles you have to barrel roll or snag on the geometry to evade, etc.

[Arikara]

a giant rock isn't usually considered to be a "character" unless it has some form of sapience or sentience

My claim is not that it is a character. My claim is that everything is infected with lore-ruining retcon garbage that devalues the world. It is worst for the characters, who are more pitiful than ever. But even this stupid rock isn't safe from the reach of the bad writing.

Also, in terms of narrative continuity and cohesion, the state of the worldsoul is critical to pretty much everyone in the story's world.

If you accept the premises of their garbage story, that is, which I do not.

The cosmological retcons of Chronicle change nothing of the equation of the wouldsoul's corruption being bad news - it was bad news when the Old Gods were actively corrupting it in the Classic/Vanilla story arc of Ahn'Qiraj, and it's bad news now. In that regard, the continuity of the Worldsoul Saga is unchanged from that of Classic, TBC, WotLK, and Cata, all part of pre-Chronicle lore.

Nonsense. There was no such thing as a 'worldsoul' until they pulled it out of their asses. The first reference to it which we might look at is in MoP, when the traitor Wrathion had a little vision of it, and the whole debacle with Ra-den perhaps. This was alright, at the time. There exists, perhaps, a world in which this sort of story would not have been tasteless garbage. Unfortunately, that is not the world which we live in, on account of the Chronicle retcons and the abject decline in writing quality.

The Void as a force does appear in WC3, as that's where Voidwalkers come from, as well as several other Void-related entities. The Void wasn't as quantified as it is in the more modern era, of course, but it's still mentioned both as a force and as a location in some cases.

Eh... that's hindsight speaking. No—that is nonsense, the Wc3 Voidwalkers had no lore beyond that they were aligned with the Burning Legion, being present in some of the Illidan maps, I believe. Hardly convincing.

The Void more exemplifies the trope of "power at a price," said price being madness. The Void Lords certainly have an agenda, or multiple agendas as befits the chaotic nature of the Void, but the Void itself doesn't seem to have one outside of granting power and madness in equal measure. The Light, by contrast, seeks to unify and grant clarity of purpose, but at the possibility of zealotry and single-minded obsession, befitting its role as the Void's opposite both philosophically and fundamentally. I'd argue both the Void and the Light function on more of a blue/orange morality than a strict black/white or good/evil dichotomy. Their users impute their own moralities onto them, or are twisted by them, but that's not really an axiomatic quality of either force.

I don't think "using too much" Light makes you evil by any means, but that overindulging in any of the greater powers of the Warcraft metacosm comes with the attendant risk that they reinforce and/or resonate with an individual's baser qualities. Awareness of this relationship grants a degree of control over it - whereas denial of it, well, leaves you open to its influence. This is why characters like Khadgar or Alleria can use massive amounts of such primal powers like Arcane and Void and remain more or less themselves, whereas others aren't as fortunate.

Repeating their bland garbage at me will only serve to make me barf, and condemn you as a misled lunatic; but then, I was already going to do that, as you've already been sucking up their garbage writing for years.

I roundly reject every bit of this nonsense—and fervently wish for the death of every Windrunner, besides. An excellent case study of characters ruined by these retcons, really—excepting Vereesa, who was intolerable from her first appearance in Day of the Dragon.

The Light, specifically, has been seen as morally dubious for as long as the Scarlet Brotherhood as been around - with the open question as to why people who are objectively hateful and driven by pathological zealotry can still tap into a power that is typically viewed as unambiguously "good." Alonsus Faol basically underscores this in Midnight, positing that far from the Light having an agenda, it's actually incapable of deriving any form of moral imperative from a user's actual intent. Basically put, as long as you have the will and force of character to invoke the Light, it'll respond to you, even if you're a moral black hole.

The light being only a tool is fine and good. The problem comes from when it is used in the role of a cosmic flavor to ruin characters and poison worldbuilding. X'era was a pathetic regression compared to A'dal; who, while hardly interesting, at least had the good grace to not be ruinous. The whole nonsense with the AU draenei going light crazy is stupid. Everything about this "light blindness" crap is stupid. It's a cheap gimmick, at best, and undermines all that came before... for what?

[Aucald]

My claim is not that it is a character. My claim is that everything is infected with lore-ruining retcon garbage that devalues the world. It is worst for the characters, who are more pitiful than ever. But even this stupid rock isn't safe from the reach of the bad writing.

That's less a claim and more an opinion - one you're welcome to have, but it's not really an argument or anything we can discuss rationally or objectively.

If you accept the premises of their garbage story, that is, which I do not.

If you don't accept the actual premise of the story, you're not going to be able to actually discuss or debate it. It's a non-starter.

Nonsense. There was no such thing as a 'worldsoul' until they pulled it out of their asses. The first reference to it which we might look at is in MoP, when the traitor Wrathion had a little vision of it, and the whole debacle with Ra-den perhaps. This was alright, at the time. There exists, perhaps, a world in which this sort of story would not have been tasteless garbage. Unfortunately, that is not the world which we live in, on account of the Chronicle retcons and the abject decline in writing quality.

Yes, the concept of a worldsoul has been a thing since MoP, which was more than 13 years ago. Again, your opinion of it being "tasteless" is, well, your opinion - but I'm discussing what things are in terms of the story, not my opinion of what I think the story should be or isn't.

Repeating their bland garbage at me will only serve to make me barf, and condemn you as a misled lunatic; but then, I was already going to do that, as you've already been sucking up their garbage writing for years.

Ad hominem attacks on people who say or like things you don't isn't exactly rational behavior, either. Hell, people enjoy things that I think are garbage too, but I don't condemn or call them lunatics because of it - taste is subjective, and so are opinions.

I roundly reject every bit of this nonsense—and fervently wish for the death of every Windrunner, besides. An excellent case study of characters ruined by these retcons, really—excepting Vereesa, who was intolerable from her first appearance in Day of the Dragon.

You can reject it all day long, I suppose. Doesn't make it any less true in terms of the story.

The light being only a tool is fine and good. The problem comes from when it is used in the role of a cosmic flavor to ruin characters and poison worldbuilding. X'era was a pathetic regression compared to A'dal; who, while hardly interesting, at least had the good grace to not be ruinous. The whole nonsense with the AU draenei going light crazy is stupid. Everything about this "light blindness" crap is stupid. It's a cheap gimmick, at best, and undermines all that came before... for what?

Personally, I don't think it ruins anything; it adds nuance and latitude to what was previously an overly simplistic dualistic framework with no real scaffold or definition. I know you disagree with that position, which again is fine. To each their own. If you want to debate subjective opinions, though, I would probably suggest trying to approach a post that actually concerns opinions as opposed to one that is just relating the story as it is being told - in this case, any of several posts here that are people giving their opinions as opposed to someone asking what something is or meant, or the person providing the explanation.

[Flarelaine]

Shadowlands: ... Unfortunately, none of the factions or their leaders were really cool or enticing.

Each to his own. I found the Necrolord NPCs cool. And found, to my surprise, that their ethic isn't that far from Retribution.

Midnight: ... I do like housing, and I want to continue building out and perfecting my castle, so I will stick around to grind endeavor exp and get more build and room budget. I really hope that the devs add Mogu and Throne of Thunder architecture and decor like bricks and those tall gilded doorways, etc.]

I soured on housing when I found that regardless of outside style, the inside remains the same boring cubicle.

[Alanar]

Hey everyone, is it just me or these two expansions specifically felt forgetable for me personally? I dont know why...even bad expansions like BfA and SL were iconic and memorable except these two I mentioned.

Is it because of the lackluster end bosses? (Fyrakk being the lamest most bland expansion last boss ever imo) or is it something else?

Idk maybe cus df and tww felt like some bad cartoon/drama. Cool moments were lacking and we all hugged it out multiple times. The truce between the factions also didnt make for interesting conversations or anything like that. So what exactly the point was of that, idk, but it didnt make things more interesting. It made it more boring.

That being said, I agree that df and tww are kinda forgettable.. I barely remember (cool) moments of the expansions or any of them. Bfa is still fresh in my mind for example.

[Arikara]

That's less a claim and more an opinion - one you're welcome to have, but it's not really an argument or anything we can discuss rationally or objectively.

Oh? You will pretend that this total degradation of a world and a story thirty-two years in the making, taken over by inferior authors and subjected to repeated retcons that disrespect the original material and humiliate and sideline the original authors, to instead tell some simpering flavor of the month 'story' which systematically destroys every character and every piece of lore of the legacy that it is built upon?

"It's just an opinion", is it? Maybe if you're a spineless coward, unwilling to stand up for anything.

Personally, I don't think it ruins anything; it adds nuance and latitude to what was previously an overly simplistic dualistic framework with no real scaffold or definition.

Nuance? Is that what you're getting out of this junk? You are delirious. It is precisely the destruction of nuance that is the problem. How many two-bit characters have been nothing but mindless cultists paying lip-service to the latest cosmic flavor? How many characters fail to actually be a character, when they're too busy being a mouthpiece? What goddamn nuance? You've only empty buzzwords to show, and no point to make. For all your pretended affectation of rationality, you have no actual argument, save your own willingness to roll over for these incompetent writers who have so defaced a world that was once good and pure, now reduced to a laughing stock.