DoTs and Resilience

[overneathe]

shadowclaim dude are u some kind of wow class-lore-skill major lead designer guy? I like you. XD

[Mantisen]

My question would be, is your point in this argument to attempt to convince us that we should rally together to remove the recent change to DOTs? or to just have fun debating it?

And as was said earlier in the forums by Tigole, the reason the change was made was that in high end gear, Dots were scaling MUCH better than their direct damage counterparts, and this was partially in fact because of Resillience.

I for one am against DOTs altogether.. seeing as both my classes I play can't cleanse DOTs (save curses), if I'm fully dotted up, I'm screwed period, I can't do anything but bandage/drink a pot, even if I'm out of range of the Warlock, his DOTs do enough damage to take out my full health, then some.

For example..
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=30405 - Unstable Affliction - 1050 damage over 18 seconds (58.3 DPS)
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=27216 - Corruption - 900 damage over 18 seconds (50 DPS)
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=27218 - Curse of Agony - 1356 damage over 24 seconds (56.5 DPS, might be off seeing as it does more as duration goes on)
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=30911 - Siphon Life - 63 damage every 3 seconds, for 30 seconds. (630 damage total) (21 DPS)

If all of these were up on someone, they will take 185.8 Damage per Second, this is without spell damage added in (Which accounts for a lot) and without them and their pet hitting you.

with Resillience added this would be ~10%-15% less.. still 150 DPS a second without spell damage, them, or their pet hitting you.

Nicely put; I've been opposed to the resilience dot reduction; but when you put it like that it does acctually make alot of sense :P (Seeing how those damn dots kill me aswell )

[Falgorn]

My question would be, is your point in this argument to attempt to convince us that we should rally together to remove the recent change to DOTs? or to just have fun debating it?

And as was said earlier in the forums by Tigole, the reason the change was made was that in high end gear, Dots were scaling MUCH better than their direct damage counterparts, and this was partially in fact because of Resillience.

I for one am against DOTs altogether.. seeing as both my classes I play can't cleanse DOTs (save curses), if I'm fully dotted up, I'm screwed period, I can't do anything but bandage/drink a pot, even if I'm out of range of the Warlock, his DOTs do enough damage to take out my full health, then some.

For example..
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=30405 - Unstable Affliction - 1050 damage over 18 seconds (58.3 DPS)
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=27216 - Corruption - 900 damage over 18 seconds (50 DPS)
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=27218 - Curse of Agony - 1356 damage over 24 seconds (56.5 DPS, might be off seeing as it does more as duration goes on)
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=30911 - Siphon Life - 63 damage every 3 seconds, for 30 seconds. (630 damage total) (21 DPS)

If all of these were up on someone, they will take 185.8 Damage per Second, this is without spell damage added in (Which accounts for a lot) and without them and their pet hitting you.

with Resillience added this would be ~10%-15% less.. still 150 DPS a second without spell damage, them, or their pet hitting you.

Let's look at this then. Thats 150 dps without spell damage with a collective cast time of around 7 - 8 seconds.

Just to point out, each and every tick has a chance to be resisted, and ofc, all can be cleansed and none will ever crit. This is also a full affliction warlock just to point out.

Lets look at a Fire mage and what he can do in 8 seconds without spell damage, not to mention the (upto 30 seconds) it takes for all remaining dots to tick out full damage.

(I'm in work so no links I'm afraid.)

Fireball - 803 damage 3sec
Fire blas - 780 instant +1s GC
Blast Wave - 720 instant +1s GC
Dragons Breathe - 790 instant +1s GC

So in 6 seconds (whilst the Warlock is still finishing off his dots) the Mage will be throwing out
515.6 DPS (going all out ofc) each of which can crit, all of which do their damage instantly and only have 1 chance to resist per cast as opposed to 57 overall chances the dots mentioned above will have a chance to resist.

The Mages dps drops after this ofc, but I think it highlights how dot damage may be hard to get away from, and frustrating to fight against but it's the the way it works more than the damage it does that annoys people.

Like I said.. fix affliction in PvP, but don't nerf dots as a way to do it. OR

Apply resilience to ALL damage done in PvP.

[Mantisen]

Whilst you might put out some good points in your post Falgorn there are some fundamental issues, for example the 3 second Fireball can be countered out with kick/stun/fireresistance (nerfing the damage)/silence/charge/grounding totem / earth shock / silencing shot, etc.. If the fireball gets counterspelled / silenced / kicked the mage won't be able to put out any fire damage for about 8 seconds. This, if anything is a nerf to the dps. A Shaman with rebeveration should be able to almost completly take away a mages damage due to earthshock sets the spellcasts back with a second or two + they have grounding. There are numerous ways for most classes to defend themselves from most highdps classes.

Meanwhile Warlocks have the ability to put the dots (all but unstable affl. and maybe some more) running and kiting with help from teammates using totes / shocks / poison / stuns, etc - thus making them hard to silence and putting them of getting any shadow dmg out. On top of this the warlock have good CC abilities and an instant cast shadowbolt at nightfall procc if they are specced affli, charge from felguard if demon and instant cast shadowbolt / incinerate if destruction. Im not saying all of them allways works, but thats kinda the beauty with pvp, you will have to adapt to the opposing teams actions and abilities.

I have most certainly forgotten some things, but feel free to correct me. Whilst this implementation might lower the damage output of a warlock it won't make it impossible to win.

Sincerely.
Mantisen.

[Falgorn]

Whilst you might put out some good points in your post Falgorn there are some fundamental issues, for example the 3 second Fireball can be countered out with kick/stun/fireresistance (nerfing the damage)/silence/charge/grounding totem / earth shock / silencing shot, etc.. If the fireball gets counterspelled / silenced / kicked the mage won't be able to put out any fire damage for about 8 seconds. This, if anything is a nerf to the dps. A Shaman with rebeveration should be able to almost completly take away a mages damage due to earthshock sets the spellcasts back with a second or two + they have grounding. There are numerous ways for most classes to defend themselves from most highdps classes.

Meanwhile Warlocks have the ability to put the dots (all but unstable affl. and maybe some more) running and kiting with help from teammates using totes / shocks / poison / stuns, etc - thus making them hard to silence and putting them of getting any shadow dmg out. On top of this the warlock have good CC abilities and an instant cast shadowbolt at nightfall procc if they are specced affli, charge from felguard if demon and instant cast shadowbolt / incinerate if destruction. Im not saying all of them allways works, but thats kinda the beauty with pvp, you will have to adapt to the opposing teams actions and abilities.

I have most certainly forgotten some things, but feel free to correct me. Whilst this implementation might lower the damage output of a warlock it won't make it impossible to win.

Sincerely.
Mantisen.

Talented Firebolt is 2.5 seconds (marginally longer than UA)

Everything that can be done to fireball can be done to UA and then the shadow tree (all dots) is also cancelled. Grounding totem also absorbes dots and more to the point, there are a lot more options in the game to remove a dot than there are to stop a mage instant cast.

I didn't speak about specific Mage talents as the above poster kept it simple, but lets not forget about P.O.M. Pyro and clearcasting. Lots of tricks for both classes.

[Rae Rae]

Falgorn, I dont really understand where you are coming from here; you sound like you're probably a demo or detro warlock and hence arguing for an adjustment to afflication and not to resilience. You're probably correct that afflication spec is causing some issues regarding the damage they put out and this piecemeal fix to resi is a little "off the cuff".

I'll hasten to add though 2 things to your last couple of posts, first fireblast, blastwave and dragonbreath have a 1,5s GCD; they also have considerable less range than all your DoTs. The post you were replying to, did not include pet damage - I know pets do fairly decent damage, felguard obviously does more, but as we are talking Afflication this isnt available; but also, water elemental isnt available as you are comparing Fire mage, so lets add another 50dps (at least) to the warlocks dmg from felpuppy.

quote: there are a lot more options in the game to remove a dot than there are to stop a mage instant cast.

True, but whats the CD and mana cost of those casts? Extremely prohibiting you'll find. There are lot more options to stop a fire mage doing his bread and butter dmg (fireball) than there are to remove DoTs.


Warlocks of any spec have a lot more survivability than fire mages, during these "8 seconds", even if the mage does more dmg - chances are that the warlock is still at a higher absolute value of hp's and as likely a higher % of hp's.


Oh and lets not forget the amount of "points" spent on mages crit chance, which is largely wasted by resilience. I dont see this happening for any non-destro locks.


Im not a mage, so im not arguing in their favour, but i genuinely believe warlocks are currently the "top dogs" in 1v1 pvp. Sure, some classes will have the upper hand, but when I ask my 5v5 team mate (a soul-link, Syphon Life Lock - Why is this spec even allowed?) who he fears the most in 1v1, and he replies no class, something is a little wrong. Ok this might not apply across the board to all spec'd of lock, and fixing the OP aspects of certain builds would definitely be a better course of action than this knee-jerk response, but personally - im glad something is being done.


Finally, you mention these rigorous and intelligent spreadsheets showing how lock damage is ripped up more through resilience than a crit based class (well you only say "others" so that was open to interpretation); would you mind sharing these with us? Or directing me to where these are shown, so I can take a peek at the maths behind them?
I see you said on other posts you were a lawyer, in my experience lawyers can talk the talk, but their maths skills are usually a little below-par. Im an accountant btw.

[crankmonkey]

Talented Firebolt is 2.5 seconds (marginally longer than UA)

what is this talented firebolt that you speak off? is itl ike a new spell that we mages are getting from a book in ZA or is that a cross between fireball and frostbolt? either way there is no such things as firebolt. if you are atlking about fireball then talented it is 3 second cast, talented frostbolt is 2.5

[Shadowclaimer]

My question would be, is your point in this argument to attempt to convince us that we should rally together to remove the recent change to DOTs? or to just have fun debating it?

And as was said earlier in the forums by Tigole, the reason the change was made was that in high end gear, Dots were scaling MUCH better than their direct damage counterparts, and this was partially in fact because of Resillience.

I for one am against DOTs altogether.. seeing as both my classes I play can't cleanse DOTs (save curses), if I'm fully dotted up, I'm screwed period, I can't do anything but bandage/drink a pot, even if I'm out of range of the Warlock, his DOTs do enough damage to take out my full health, then some.

For example..
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=30405 - Unstable Affliction - 1050 damage over 18 seconds (58.3 DPS)
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=27216 - Corruption - 900 damage over 18 seconds (50 DPS)
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=27218 - Curse of Agony - 1356 damage over 24 seconds (56.5 DPS, might be off seeing as it does more as duration goes on)
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=30911 - Siphon Life - 63 damage every 3 seconds, for 30 seconds. (630 damage total) (21 DPS)

If all of these were up on someone, they will take 185.8 Damage per Second, this is without spell damage added in (Which accounts for a lot) and without them and their pet hitting you.

with Resillience added this would be ~10%-15% less.. still 150 DPS a second without spell damage, them, or their pet hitting you.

Let's look at this then. Thats 150 dps without spell damage with a collective cast time of around 7 - 8 seconds.

Just to point out, each and every tick has a chance to be resisted, and ofc, all can be cleansed and none will ever crit. This is also a full affliction warlock just to point out.

Lets look at a Fire mage and what he can do in 8 seconds without spell damage, not to mention the (upto 30 seconds) it takes for all remaining dots to tick out full damage.

(I'm in work so no links I'm afraid.)

Fireball - 803 damage 3sec
Fire blas - 780 instant +1s GC
Blast Wave - 720 instant +1s GC
Dragons Breathe - 790 instant +1s GC

So in 6 seconds (whilst the Warlock is still finishing off his dots) the Mage will be throwing out
515.6 DPS (going all out ofc) each of which can crit, all of which do their damage instantly and only have 1 chance to resist per cast as opposed to 57 overall chances the dots mentioned above will have a chance to resist.

The Mages dps drops after this ofc, but I think it highlights how dot damage may be hard to get away from, and frustrating to fight against but it's the the way it works more than the damage it does that annoys people.

Like I said.. fix affliction in PvP, but don't nerf dots as a way to do it. OR

Apply resilience to ALL damage done in PvP.

Warlocks are not meant to be a .. well to put it "balls to the walls" DPS class, when mages get twice our health to get us on par with you, then you may have an argument, but seeing as the combination you mentioned would be a massive waste to a mage's mana pool I'm not seeing the point here.

You also get a free potion for you and your whole arena team ~2000 health for everyone.. you are partial utility, partial DPS, and mainly Damage Over Time with the Affliction build.

Attempt the same combo comparing a fire mage and a destro lock (with full free shadowbolts) and then you may have a comparison, but as an affliction lock, you are suppose to be an anti-healer/dispeller and DOT, not a full out DD class.

Btw: I'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure DOTs can not be on tick resisted.. I'm 90% sure that only the first application (just like a DD spell) has a chance.

[Durahal]

Talented Firebolt is 2.5 seconds (marginally longer than UA)

Everything that can be done to fireball can be done to UA and then the shadow tree (all dots) is also cancelled. Grounding totem also absorbes dots and more to the point, there are a lot more options in the game to remove a dot than there are to stop a mage instant cast.

I didn't speak about specific Mage talents as the above poster kept it simple, but lets not forget about P.O.M. Pyro and clearcasting. Lots of tricks for both classes.

WowowowowwowowowowowowowoW

You should of walked away from this thread like you said you were going to do a couple posts back.

You just single-handed decimated your credibility.

You say people QQ about locks because they have never played one, while you complaining about mages - obviously you haven't played one.

Your complaining about fire mages now... for a fire mage to do mass damage he either has to be standing still and/or near you (blastwave + dragons Breath), each spec of warlock can easiely counter with an array of spells (deathcoil, instant howl of terror, felguard charge, felpup spell lock, procing nether protection, etc....).

As for your point about having 57 chances for one of the DoTs to be resisted - consider this, if the even one of those mage spells is resisted the DPS will drop significantly where as even if you resist several of the DoT ticks the DPS will be roughly the same, not to mention you can constantly re-apply these DoTs with only the GD stopping you. Where as all those mage spells you listed have long CD's - minus fireball.

Even if this so called "talent fire bolt" at 2.5sec cast existed... Your clain that it is only marginally longer than the 1.5sec UA is completely wrong.
2.5sec vs. 1.5sec = 40% faster, which is hardly marginally longer. But in reality it is 50% faster.

Oh ya... incase you didnt know... PoM and clearcast aren't in the fire talent tree, you can't get PoM and Dragons breath. As for clearcast... all it does it make the next sepll cast take zero mana unless you talent for Arcane Potency (3/3 increase spell critical by 30% while clearcasting), but as deep fire spec you cant get that talent.

And you say apply resilience to all damage, DoT damage is the only MAIN form of damage not being affected right now, so your getting what you want, stop QQing. Now before you call me a moron, I know there is many things not affected from resilience (poison damage, etc..) but these classes that have these abilities already have thier main forms of DPS being affected by resilience.

GG, Do more research then come back. Flame On.


EDIT: My definition of ignorant remains unchanged tyvm.

[Shadowclaimer]

Agreed, when I posted a bit ago I noticed the issues with his fire idea.. then I saw the firebolt thing after posting.. and just lost all respect for it right there.

You sir are not a fire mage, you are a warlock, you have survivability, fire mages do not, fire mages do not have arcane talents and blast wave + Dragon's Breath, they get 10% reduced damage on top of -.5 casting time on fireball (still a 2.5 I believe with that)

[Falgorn]

Talented Firebolt is 2.5 seconds (marginally longer than UA)

Everything that can be done to fireball can be done to UA and then the shadow tree (all dots) is also cancelled. Grounding totem also absorbes dots and more to the point, there are a lot more options in the game to remove a dot than there are to stop a mage instant cast.

I didn't speak about specific Mage talents as the above poster kept it simple, but lets not forget about P.O.M. Pyro and clearcasting. Lots of tricks for both classes.

WowowowowwowowowowowowowoW

You should of walked away from this thread like you said you were going to do a couple posts back.

You just single-handed decimated your credibility.

You say people QQ about locks because they have never played one, while you complaining about mages - obviously you haven't played one.

Your complaining about fire mages now... for a fire mage to do mass damage he either has to be standing still and/or near you (blastwave + dragons Breath), each spec of warlock can easiely counter with an array of spells (deathcoil, instant howl of terror, felguard charge, felpup spell lock, procing nether protection, etc....).

As for your point about having 57 chances for one of the DoTs to be resisted - consider this, if the even one of those mage spells is resisted the DPS will drop significantly where as even if you resist several of the DoT ticks the DPS will be roughly the same, not to mention you can constantly re-apply these DoTs with only the GD stopping you. Where as all those mage spells you listed have long CD's - minus fireball.

Even if this so called "talent fire bolt" at 2.5sec cast existed... Your clain that it is only marginally longer than the 1.5sec UA is completely wrong.
2.5sec vs. 1.5sec = 40% faster, which is hardly marginally longer. But in reality it is 50% faster.

Oh ya... incase you didnt know... PoM and clearcast aren't in the fire talent tree, you can't get PoM and Dragons breath. As for clearcast... all it does it make the next sepll cast take zero mana unless you talent for Arcane Potency (3/3 increase spell critical by 30% while clearcasting), but as deep fire spec you cant get that talent.

And you say apply resilience to all damage, DoT damage is the only MAIN form of damage not being affected right now, so your getting what you want, stop QQing. Now before you call me a moron, I know there is many things not affected from resilience (poison damage, etc..) but these classes that have these abilities already have thier main forms of DPS being affected by resilience.

GG, Do more research then come back. Flame On.


EDIT: My definition of ignorant remains unchanged tyvm.

Oh noes, I called fireball a firebolt. bye bye credibility.

I brought non spec fire talents into the equaition as someone above brought non affliciton talents into the equation and I thought I would point out it works both ways. I'm not suggesting that Fire mages automatically have POM, I'm simply pointing out like a previous poster that a Warlock who has backlash is not going to have Unstable affliction. Part of the problem people have with Warlocks is that three specs make for three different fights. Even more frustrating is that every whine you see about warlocks these days it's made out that were all 41-41-41 spec with three pets out at once.

I never said I had an issue with Mages whatsoever, I'm simply using them as a similar yardstick.

I'm not compairing the type of damage a warlock can do v a mage im just pointing out that in pure dps, affliction locks take about 14 seconds before it really gets going.


And I said that people QQ about locks because they don't like the method of damage, not the damage itself which I still believe to be true.

The main issue I have with dots + resillience is that non affliction locks take a damage hit in regards to direct damage because its expected that their dots are ticking away. This is why its harder to stack to a high crit rate as a destro lock. Applying resillience to these non affliction spec dots really takes away the consistent base damage of destruction locks and weakens them significantly. For affliction locks it reduces their ENTIRE damage output by 10%, not just crit damage. I think affliction locks are OP in certain circumstances as I have said, but I think a smarter approach needs to be taken when fixing them.

As for mages and survivability. I die most often to melee classes, what I wouldn't give for frost nova and blink, I have to make do with netherweave bandages.. and free action potions!

[Juju]

[quote=Falgorn ]

As for mages and survivability. I die most often to melee classes, what I wouldn't give for frost nova and blink!

If u die to melee classes, u'd die just as much if u had blink, feign death, and you'd probably die still if you had divine shield (which i'm surprised you haven't cried about yet). You losing is probably cause you play like my cat when he's drunk, or worse... Srsly, you've got the most imba class ingam atm, and you cry more than rogues ever did. Go play on the highway blinfolded and rid us of your whining already please.

[Falgorn]

If u die to melee classes, u'd die just as much if u had blink, feign death, and you'd probably die still if you had divine shield (which i'm surprised you haven't cried about yet). You losing is probably cause you play like my cat when he's drunk, or worse... Srsly, you've got the most imba class ingam atm, and you cry more than rogues ever did. Go play on the highway blinfolded and rid us of your whining already please.

Honestly mate, I have a point of view which differs to yours and others but at least I can point it out without being a jerk or flaming. I'm not whineing or crying about anything, just suggesting that incoming changes could be done better. I've been civil and polite the entire time and your reaction above speaks volumes about the type of person you are.

[Shadowclaimer]

I'd rather have 16k health then 6k health and frost nova and blink.

They aren't as helpful as you everyone thinks once you have them... Ice block and Ice Barrier .. maybe.. mana shield is absolutely worthless, and Ice Ward/Fire Ward are the only decent survivability abilities outside the Ice tree.

Everyone is picking at mainly the fact that you threw out a fire mage's stats as a counter to an affliction locks, when they play absolutely different.

Here let me try the Fire Mage stats real fast without spell damage or talents..

Fireball (opener) 717 to 913 + 84 over 3 seconds 3.5 second cast time. (815 average) (232 DPS) http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=38692 (465 mana cost)
Fireblast 664 to 786 insta-cast (725 average) (725 DPS) http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=27079 (465 mana cost)

What you fail to realize is, add in cooldowns to these (since I cannot spam them every second, unlike your DOTs which essentially last forever)

Fireball has no cooldown, but still has its 3.5 second cast time, 232 DPS.
Fireblast however has an 8 second cooldown, effectively reducing its DPS by a factor of 8, making it 90 DPS

This brings a fire mage to a grand total of 332 DPS, but that one fireball (3.5 second cast time) makes up for the entirety of the cast time on all your dots and then some.

If this were talented the fireball would actually get LESS DPS from the Improved Fireball, because of the hidden 10% damage nerf that comes with it.

I leave out Dragon's Breath and Blast Wave because those are essentially melee range skills, they are nearly worthless in a confrontation with another caster unless you are absolutely stupid enough to waste blink to reach them instead of using it to get out of a stun, They are also HORRIBLE for mana efficiency.. and are mainly used only in crowd control situations. (620 and 700 mana effectively, for about half the damage of their fireball and fireblast counterparts, unlike warlocks, mages have to worry about their mana pools, we can't just slit our wrists and get mana)

Fire Mage DPS: 332
Affliction Lock: 185.8

But what you fail to realize is, fire mages do not have pets wailing on their opponent every second making cast times longer, you can still cast drain life (+20% I believe if all dots are up), you can cast Shadowbolt, you have Backlash for a free instacast every few seconds essentially.

We are balanced out DPS wise, if it was possible to add in all the variables for DPS coming from a lock's pet and damage I would, but that would be essentially hours more of number crunching for each pet type etc.

The difference is, your dots actually recieve the same flat sum of a percentage of your spell damage as it goes up, whereas my fireballs and fireblasts actually get less of my spell damage the more I get, and Blizzard is discovering, Resilience balances that issue out at the top end of the game (tier 6 v tier 6)

The 10% damage nerf hurts the higher end players more than the lower end Karazhan/Gruul's player.

[Juju]

Which makes me wonder why shadowbolt and immolation didn't get a 10% dmg nerf from the -0.5sec cast time talent..., lock don't have blink, but they have Deathcoil and fear which highly compensate for it (or iceblock even especially since u get a debuff for using it now...). Oh yea, and u know what sheep that doesn't get broken while taking dmg is called? FEAR! Srsly, don't even compare mages and locks, locks are better off by far in everyaspect of the game (conjuring water in a raid is not essential as water can be bought), the only advantage a mage rly has is CC for PvE, Fear is better for pvp. U say you're not complaning? You keep crying on different posts about the good idea Blizz had to make resilience affect DoTs since it already affected all other classes they simply thought it should affected locks as well.
This changes is a good thing, u'll still get to kill whoever u were able to kill before, (like I said, locks' imbalance comes from the way they're built more than their dmg) and to some degree shadow priests (who yopu don't rly hear complaints from surpringly enough). Again, only people in arenas will see a change, u won't cause the only pvp you do is kill lvl 65 players in Halaa... and in bg's not that many people have enough resilience for u to see the difference.
As for the way I express myself showing the person that I am? lol, well, first, you're in no position to judge me, and after all, so what if I get annoyed at people who simply don't understand they're wrong even though numerous people tried to explain it to them through multiple posts. if u don't like what I say, then don't read it.
Locks are imba, dots are imba and it was about time Blizz did something about it, even if it's not all that much.

[Falgorn]

Which makes me wonder why shadowbolt and immolation didn't get a 10% dmg nerf from the -0.5sec cast time talent..., lock don't have blink, but they have Deathcoil and fear which highly compensate for it (or iceblock even especially since u get a debuff for using it now...). Oh yea, and u know what sheep that doesn't get broken while taking dmg is called? FEAR! Srsly, don't even compare mages and locks, locks are better off by far in everyaspect of the game (conjuring water in a raid is not essential as water can be bought), the only advantage a mage rly has is CC for PvE, Fear is better for pvp. U say you're not complaning? You keep crying on different posts about the good idea Blizz had to make resilience affect DoTs since it already affected all other classes they simply thought it should affected locks as well.
This changes is a good thing, u'll still get to kill whoever u were able to kill before, (like I said, locks' imbalance comes from the way they're built more than their dmg) and to some degree shadow priests (who yopu don't rly hear complaints from surpringly enough). Again, only people in arenas will see a change, u won't cause the only pvp you do is kill lvl 65 players in Halaa... and in bg's not that many people have enough resilience for u to see the difference.
As for the way I express myself showing the person that I am? lol, well, first, you're in no position to judge me, and after all, so what if I get annoyed at people who simply don't understand they're wrong even though numerous people tried to explain it to them through multiple posts. if u don't like what I say, then don't read it.
Locks are imba, dots are imba and it was about time Blizz did something about it, even if it's not all that much.

You sound pretty angry and it leads me to believe you simply don't like the Warlock class for reasons I'll leave others to speculate. I also didn't judge you, I pointed out that your agressive insulting attitude over a debate relating to a game leaves a distinct impression.

As for me being wrong and lot's of people telling me that, there are 9 classes in WoW, 8 of which are not Warlocks so the majority of people are going to be happy another class is getting nerfed, regardless of the shape or form that nerf takes. Go to any lock forum and you will see the vocal majority swing the other way. It doesn't make me right or wrong, it just means that I have a differnt perspective which I'm happy to debate. I am as open to anyone to a change of attitude, It's just I am yet to read anything or see anything that has changed my mind about this. Unlike others, I do admit that certain spec Warlocks in PvP have certain advantages that seem unreasonable. I do admit that it should be balanced and I've said so all along. The fact that I don't arena whilst a good source of mockery for you (and I congratulate you on being so witty) does not detract from the fact that this nerf has the capability of shifting the imbalance in the other direction, especially for the specs which are not seen as OP.

So JuJu I hope you can see that it's you who is being judgemental and incredibly childish to boot. I hope you can grow up so that this discussion can continue to be informative without the hate.

[Sheyz]

And as usual, falgorn refers to some maths he has seen on some other forums.

And in his bizzaro world, he can't even give the web site adress, even the link. (yeah he can writes hundreads of pages on a gaming forum at work, but can't write a web site adress. I guess his boss plays a rogue and he is controling the information Falgorn puts around)

For the 76353th he only refers to his sense of rightness as hard facts. *laughs*

Warlocks are not imba, and the new application of resilience will not change that much for the class mechanics.
It will change the end of some very close fights, as at most it will reduce the damage of 10% on a full PvP character.
Welcome back in the fold of regular players, Mr Warlock (yeah, must be tough)

[Rae Rae]

Falgorn, please could you reply to my previous post (on page 6)? If you cant be bothered to read it all, ill summarise as best as possible:

What class/build do you play? (I was guessing destro lock)
Can we see these spreadsheets that prove your claims?
Mages have to stand still to cast those spells, the others have short range and long CD's
Mages have "wasted" stats in crit for pvp, compared with most locks who go for just dmg

[Juju]

I've probably been a lock for longer than you have my dear falgorn (hit 60 with mine a week after I did with my mage 2months after game came out and I tried one in beta). And I'm not insulting, I simply grow tired of your lack of understanding and I express it in a maner you can understand, which I believe you did, no?
Now, before you go further in you how-so-ridiculous idea of making resilience affect ALL dmg... did you think before writing this? I mean seriously? There are many ways in the game to reduce dmg, Armor for physical, resilience for crit (and soon DoTs), resist for magical dmg, +defense for crushing blows etc.
Do you really think after doing all that Blizzy would be dumb enough to make one stat make all the others obsolete? I mean, if we go by what you say, soon, just about anyclass with enough resillience will be able to tank, and that would affect PvE just way too much. As for your silly comments on mages dealing all that dmg... well, if the guy they kill is dumb enough to let them do all that in 6 sec, then they deserver to lose... This is pvp, this is not a mage throwing spell at some critter with 10k hp who can't do anything about it, all classes have ways of countering most of this stuff, same goes for all classes against all classes (of course I recognise that some classes have less difficulty against others, e.g. Locks VS mages, almost regardless of what pet they're using... locks are caster killers, but the problem is they're killing too many classes, hence the welcomed nerf).
Don't forget, I play a lock as well, the nerf is affecting me too, and I'm affliction so it's affecting me fully (I believe you had said you were destro at some point...), but this is a very good way to nerf locks in arenas (and secondly in bg's I guess) without nerfing their dmg in PvE in the least. Also don't forget u need 400 resil to reduce dots by 10% which not that many people have: aka: it's for arenas!
This was my last post in thsi thread, if you still don't get it, well too bad...
Less QQ more PewPew

[Durahal]

Falgorn, please could you reply to my previous post (on page 6)? If you cant be bothered to read it all, ill summarise as best as possible:

What class/build do you play? (I was guessing destro lock)
Can we see these spreadsheets that prove your claims?
Mages have to stand still to cast those spells, the others have short range and long CD's
Mages have "wasted" stats in crit for pvp, compared with most locks who go for just dmg

Give him to time has to find forum posts and theorycrafted statistics to prove his point, which seems like an utter failure. Or he can do the alternative (what hes doing right now) and just make up statistics that don't even exist.

You lost lost this argument a few pages back.

On a side note: I saw a forum post with all the math saying you QQ 81.31% more than anyother lock atm, I don't have link tho :