DoTs and Resilience

[Byrnie]

I don't think 10% resistance is too much at all considering warlocks can in cast most of their DoTs. I think this is a great balance for warlocks in a pvp setting.

[Juju]

I agree with the previous, locks are just not used to getting a little nerfed and are going to whine for years about it.
Suck it up, I play a lock, and I'm sure i'll still own the people I was owning before.
Destruction lock get so little dmg from their dots it's cute to hear them whine, but not of any relevance.

[Falgorn]

I agree with the previous, locks are just not used to getting a little nerfed and are going to whine for years about it.
Suck it up, I play a lock, and I'm sure i'll still own the people I was owning before.
Destruction lock get so little dmg from their dots it's cute to hear them whine, but not of any relevance.

I find it hard to believe that you are a warlock when you make statements as above. Destruction Warlocks get a lot of damage from Immolate debuf before the conflag and also most Destruction locks have enough shadow damage to make Corruption tick hard. You can have empowered corruption as a destruction Warlock also. If you do play a lock you should be ashamed of your ignorance.

Warlocks have had numerous nerfs in the recent past to all aspects of their play style and to all three trees. Applying resillience to a dispellable form of damage is stupidity beyond comprehension.

[Barbon]

Warlocks have had numerous nerfs in the recent past to all aspects of their play style and to all three trees. Applying resillience to a dispellable form of damage is stupidity beyond comprehension.

Yes yes, warlocks have been nerfed to the obvilion and will get now even deeper, we´ve heard this all before. Last time i checked the stats of.. was it Europe´s top teams, most of best top 2v2 teams had a warlock, in 3v3 warlock´s position was between best and average, and in 5v5 it was in the middle. This alone shows to me that something is not right, plus if you have really played 2v2, you really know the long fights with pillars etc etc blaa blaa favor dots and running around, playing Benny Hill in the background. I don´t understand why it is so fu.. freaking hard to accept that also the dots are actually BEING AFFECTED by resilience. Yes exactly, dots were the damage type not affected by it before, direct damage was. And yes "dots can be dispelled, it takes a lot of time for dots to do their damage, dots do too little damage anyway", we´ve heard it. Blizzard changes things the way they think is the best, accept it, think if the change really is reasonable, or then don´t play at all.

Excuse me for this wall of text, I had pretty frustrating day at work

[Falgorn]

Warlocks have had numerous nerfs in the recent past to all aspects of their play style and to all three trees. Applying resillience to a dispellable form of damage is stupidity beyond comprehension.

Yes yes, warlocks have been nerfed to the obvilion and will get now even deeper, we´ve heard this all before. Last time i checked the stats of.. was it Europe´s top teams, most of best top 2v2 teams had a warlock, in 3v3 warlock´s position was between best and average, and in 5v5 it was in the middle. This alone shows to me that something is not right, plus if you have really played 2v2, you really know the long fights with pillars etc etc blaa blaa favor dots and running around, playing Benny Hill in the background. I don´t understand why it is so fu.. freaking hard to accept that also the dots are actually BEING AFFECTED by resilience. Yes exactly, dots were the damage type not affected by it before, direct damage was. And yes "dots can be dispelled, it takes a lot of time for dots to do their damage, dots do too little damage anyway", we´ve heard it. Blizzard changes things the way they think is the best, accept it, think if the change really is reasonable, or then don´t play at all.

Excuse me for this wall of text, I had pretty frustrating day at work

The wall of txt would almost be excused if you gave some indication that you have read anything posted above. Warlocks have not been nerfed to oblivion, they have simply been nerfed into balance, and most of the nerfs I agree with. I'd like to see greater balancing in PvP like WoTF having no duration to match the reduction in fear duration etc, but nerfs I can handle.

Despite this I refuse to switch off my own thought process when I see something that is clearly wrong, and just because Blizzard are implementing it, does not mean they do so with papal infallibility. Applying resilience to Dots is like applying resilience to spell damage or AP for other classes and it is a double nerf for non affliction Warlocks, but an poorly Conceived nerf non the less. For this to be balanced, then resilience should reduce all damage from everything by a %, and not just crits and crit damage.

I 100% Guarantee this will need further change in the future if it is implemented as planned.

[Barbon]

For this to be balanced, then resilience should reduce all damage from everything by a %, and not just crits and crit damage.

Why is that so? DoT´s do nice damage every time (excluding resists) you toss them, DD has a decent % chance to do nice damage, and bigger chance to do half of it (not saying DD crits and dots would do exactly same amount of damage of course).

[Falgorn]

For this to be balanced, then resilience should reduce all damage from everything by a %, and not just crits and crit damage.

Why is that so? DoT´s do nice damage every time (excluding resists) you toss them, DD has a decent % chance to do nice damage, and bigger chance to do half of it (not saying DD crits and dots would do exactly same amount of damage of course).

Dots can be resisted every tick, dots can be partially resisted every tick and dots can be mitigated and removed. DD does the damage or does not but it does it instantly, and a DD crit at level 70 from a primary spell does more than a full run of a dot (18 - 30 seconds)

[xritta]

i simple way of explaining this is....when they came out w/ reslilence it nerfed everyone...everyone but the few afilcion locks and shadowpreists that blizzard must have *forgot about* while adding items w/ resilience to TBC, so in a way this is hardly a nerf, for your only being taken down to the same lvl as every else was a few mounths ago...........and the resilince will lower the % of dmg delt by dots by the same % resilience lowers the dmg of crits from all other sources of damage

i agree

i dont think warlocks are OP i think their dots are OP
i wasin a BG and was fully doted by 2 warlocks and a shodow prices by their macro's and died i have 10k+ hp on my rogue and my 10kHP was all gone by the second tick of all the dots.
it thats not being one shotted by dots i dunno what is...

i was not even able to CoS them off in time... i normaly dont CoS tell im half life and the dots are about to be recycles on me.


resilience should nurf the effect of every thing CC SPELL DMG DOTS MELEE all of it
resilience should make you resilient to all effects.

[Shaka]

Well, the main reason why resilience will affect dots (this is even mentioned in the blue post about it) is because with the improvement in gear (season 2, and season 3 in the future) warlocks and shadowpriests will get more and more +damage wich will make you dots tick harder. This would make warlocks/SP scale alot more then all the other classes wich will make get their damage reduced by armor/resillience. In the end this would make warlocks/SP way to overpowered. Who knows, maybe the top 5vs5 teams would maybe only consist of warlocks/SPs in the worst case.

Warlocks/SPs are already to overpowered as it is now in Arenas. There is noway you can dispell/cleanse (or wathever you will call it) all of thoose dots, you cant even heal trough them if they are enough (for example with teams consisting of warlocks+SP in a total of 3)
with my resillience in a total of 355, it will reduce your dots damage with 9%. And tbh that aint so much of a difference. It is balancing, not a nerf.
When i am in berzerker stance and gets dotted i gets a 10% penalty to all damage inc on me, so with resilience this would make my damage penalty in berzerker with dots inc to 1% instead.

You cant imagin how resillience is affecting warriors, it's abit of a pain in the arse. If your team would just ignore me, you would make me starve rage, since my rage is alot critt dependant, so id u had same reslillience as me, you would lower my critt chance with 9% and make my critts do 18% less damage. And that i guess nerfes my damage alot more then yours.

[Falgorn]

i simple way of explaining this is....when they came out w/ reslilence it nerfed everyone...everyone but the few afilcion locks and shadowpreists that blizzard must have *forgot about* while adding items w/ resilience to TBC, so in a way this is hardly a nerf, for your only being taken down to the same lvl as every else was a few mounths ago...........and the resilince will lower the % of dmg delt by dots by the same % resilience lowers the dmg of crits from all other sources of damage

i agree

i dont think warlocks are OP i think their dots are OP
i wasin a BG and was fully doted by 2 warlocks and a shodow prices by their macro's and died i have 10k+ hp on my rogue and my 10kHP was all gone by the second tick of all the dots.
it thats not being one shotted by dots i dunno what is...

i was not even able to CoS them off in time... i normaly dont CoS tell im half life and the dots are about to be recycles on me.


resilience should nurf the effect of every thing CC SPELL DMG DOTS MELEE all of it
resilience should make you resilient to all effects.

If you had *ANY* 3 classes attacking you at once you would die just as fast, but I call BS in anycase as by neither of the Warlocks would have all their dots up by the time the first one ticked twice, so you had around 8 seconds to clos. As I said, in 8 seconds, any 3 DPS classes will wipe the floor with you.

If resillience effected everything people would wear it to SSC.

Well, the main reason why resilience will affect dots (this is even mentioned in the blue post about it) is because with the improvement in gear (season 2, and season 3 in the future) warlocks and shadowpriests will get more and more +damage wich will make you dots tick harder. This would make warlocks/SP scale alot more then all the other classes wich will make get their damage reduced by armor/resillience. In the end this would make warlocks/SP way to overpowered. Who knows, maybe the top 5vs5 teams would maybe only consist of warlocks/SPs in the worst case.

Warlocks/SPs are already to overpowered as it is now in Arenas. There is noway you can dispell/cleanse (or wathever you will call it) all of thoose dots, you cant even heal trough them if they are enough (for example with teams consisting of warlocks+SP in a total of 3)
with my resillience in a total of 355, it will reduce your dots damage with 9%. And tbh that aint so much of a difference. It is balancing, not a nerf.
When i am in berzerker stance and gets dotted i gets a 10% penalty to all damage inc on me, so with resilience this would make my damage penalty in berzerker with dots inc to 1% instead.

You cant imagin how resillience is affecting warriors, it's abit of a pain in the arse. If your team would just ignore me, you would make me starve rage, since my rage is alot critt dependant, so id u had same reslillience as me, you would lower my critt chance with 9% and make my critts do 18% less damage. And that i guess nerfes my damage alot more then yours.

Warlocks are clearly not OP in arenas, and are hitting mid table in the US.

The reason why locks are not troubled by Resillience is because they stack spell damage instead of spell crit. I have a level 70 holy Paladin and I can easily keep 2 players and a third somewhat fully cleansed against a number of Warlock opponents simply because I'm a dedicated healer and I know what to prioritise. If you have a problem with cleansing and there is a healer in your group, get a better one, or best yet, just point your nearest priest to the mass dispell key.

If other classes simply did what warlocks have done, and spec for pvp in a way that doesn't rely on CRit, then you will find resillience a passive annoyance more than anything. I know of frost mages and rogues who have stacked spl dmg and AP instead of crit to great success. People not knowing how to play is no reason to nerf warlocks in such a backward way.

[Juju]

I find it hard to believe that you are a warlock when you make statements as above. Destruction Warlocks get a lot of damage from Immolate debuf before the conflag and also most Destruction locks have enough shadow damage to make Corruption tick hard. You can have empowered corruption as a destruction Warlock also. If you do play a lock you should be ashamed of your ignorance.

Warlocks have had numerous nerfs in the recent past to all aspects of their play style and to all three trees. Applying resillience to a dispellable form of damage is stupidity beyond comprehension.
[/quote]

immolation DoT is not the main dmg from immolate... It's the start dmg, it helps boost the dmg from incinerate (which won't suffer from this change) and conflag (doesn't suffer from this nerf either). Locks are OP not so much because of their dmg but because of the way they're designed (fear, Deathcoil etc.) a good lock could have 0+dmg, just ****** of stamina and if platyed well still beat anyone.
Peharps you're the one who needs to learn more about the class. I still wear my t1 for fun and kick people's asses at 70 some of them in full t4 or equivalent

[Falgorn]

immolation DoT is not the main dmg from immolate... It's the start dmg, it helps boost the dmg from incinerate (which won't suffer from this change) and conflag (doesn't suffer from this nerf either). Locks are OP not so much because of their dmg but because of the way they're designed (fear, Deathcoil etc.) a good lock could have 0+dmg, just ****** of stamina and if platyed well still beat anyone.
Peharps you're the one who needs to learn more about the class. I still wear my t1 for fun and kick people's asses at 70 some of them in full t4 or equivalent

Again, I'm sorry but your attitude and perception beg me to call BS on what you are saying. Immolate debuff does considerable damage during its duration, regardless of whether you use it to boost incinerate or not. Conflag is already afflicted by resilience as an ability you hope to see crit. You are still avoiding the issues I am raising and answering with silly little tirades about how "leet" you are, and that being sufficient to justify a nerf. Try engaging with facts and numbers. Perception is never a valid yardstick. I choose to believe that it is my skill as a player that represents me well in PvP and not the class I play. I choose to believe this because I have similar results with my other characters, and I favour my Warlock for his versatility as opposed to outright damage or over poweredness.

[Juju]

i m not saying it doesn't play, and u're missing my point. Immolate does dmg as a dot, but it's not the main source of dmg from that spell in pvp, and indeed the rest was already affected by resilience and therefore it doesn't change anything for it. What I mean to say, and I'll just say it for you as I believe others have understood alread is that resilience aftecting dots is aimed at affliction secondly demon spec locks mainly (and of course SP's). I also wasn't implying that I was anymore leet than anyone else but quite simply that the reason locks tend to have a certain facility against other classes is they're amazing cc ability (fear doesn't break all that often if you know what you're doing) more than they're dmg which can be equaled by other classes (although in different ways).

[xritta]

woot!!! nurf the lock thank god... i mean i just wish resilience just effected fear like it should.

screw the dots i kill faster then their dots its the fact that they can fear me 20 yards away and then the cool down of fear is up by the time i get back to them...


oh well it just makes their fear kiteing last long )

GG

[Falgorn]

i m not saying it doesn't play, and u're missing my point. Immolate does dmg as a dot, but it's not the main source of dmg from that spell in pvp, and indeed the rest was already affected by resilience and therefore it doesn't change anything for it. What I mean to say, and I'll just say it for you as I believe others have understood alread is that resilience aftecting dots is aimed at affliction secondly demon spec locks mainly (and of course SP's). I also wasn't implying that I was anymore leet than anyone else but quite simply that the reason locks tend to have a certain facility against other classes is they're amazing cc ability (fear doesn't break all that often if you know what you're doing) more than they're dmg which can be equaled by other classes (although in different ways).

Destruction lock get so little dmg from their dots it's cute to hear them whine, but not of any relevance.

It's not a lack of understanding or comprehension on my part that’s at issue here. You made the statement above that Destruction locks get so little damage from dots that its a joke to complain about. Whereas I pointed out that in multi target PvP combat and otherwise, dots are a powerful ally even to Destruction Warlocks, yet this stable non crit based form of damage which is akin to AP and SPldmg on other classes, is being unnecessarily nerfed and from that point of view, there is very little that can be said in favour of the nerf.

Beyond that, my original points still stand, the nature of dot damage does not apply well to the resilience mechanic. I'm not saying that things should be left as they are, I think Affliction warlocks have an upper hand in PvP, however I think a more specific change is needed, rather than just applying resilience to dots.

As for fear in PvP... as an alliance Warlock, all I can say is 'lol'. I seldom if ever cast it anymore with the intention of having it run. It's a spell interrupt and nothing more, esp when 74% of Horde in EU are Undead.

@Xritta ... Official forums are that way ---------->

[Sheyz]

Falgorn,

I am sorry to say, but you are using intellectual dishonesty.

It is perfectly logical for DoTs to finally be affected by resilience. All what you have described in your previous post (That DoT don't crit as opposed to DDs, can be dispelled, etc, etc) all that ALREADY EXISTED BEFORE resilience was introduced into the game!!

DoTs have the disadvantages your told about... but also great advantages. Better damage per mana, lower cast time, being the greatest.

Now back to resilience: that new stats has been decreasing the damage of all sources of damages, excpt for DoTs, giving an increasing advantage to that form of attack as we progress into PvP. Blizzard is simply now correctin that mistake.

[Falgorn]

If you are going to speak about intellectual dishonesty, then please avoid making statements like this:

Now back to resilience: that new stats has been decreasing the damage of all sources of damages, excpt for DoTs, giving an increasing advantage to that form of attack as we progress into PvP. Blizzard is simply now correctin that mistake.

Resilience reduces crit damage and chance to be crit, a Mage that stacks spell damage instead of Crit is the same as a Warlock that stacks Spell damage instead of crit. The difference is, Warlocks are doing this and Mages are not. Same goes for AP v Crit. The bigger issue, is that Warlocks have a tree which lends itself to focusing on spell damage whilst other classes tend to go for more Crit as the best choice for PvP, though consistant non crit based damage is available to all who choose to spec that way.

As for lower cast time on dots... Curse of Agony is instant by default. Corruption is 5 talent points to be instant, and Unstable affliction is not instant. How many instant cast does an arcane / (frost / fire) mage have? How many instants does a Rogue or an Arms warrior have? What about Paladins with 4 instant attacks at the beginning of a fight?

Intellectual dishonesty? I think not. Not on my part in anycase.

[Sheyz]

"As for lower cast time on dots... Curse of Agony is instant by default. Corruption is 5 talent points to be instant, and Unstable affliction is not instant. How many instant cast does an arcane / (frost / fire) mage have? How many instants does a Rogue or an Arms warrior have? What about Paladins with 4 instant attacks at the beginning of a fight? "

Again: nonwithstanding he "rightness" of the comparaisons you make above...All of this was true before the resilience appeared!! so yes, you are dishonest.

Seems to me you're problem is with DoTs, not with resilience I guess you should simply reroll mage, paladin rogue or warrior, seeing they are so superior to warlock, according to what you just said.

[Falgorn]

Again: nonwithstanding he "rightness" of the comparaisons you make above...All of this was true before the resilience appeared!! so yes, you are dishonest.

Seems to me you're problem is with DoTs, not with resilience I guess you should simply reroll mage, paladin rogue or warrior, seeing they are so superior to warlock, according to what you just said.

Actually I don't have any problems at all with the Warlock class, I just think the logic behind applying resilience to dots is inherenly flawed, and calling me 'dishonest' does not change the fact that I am right. Resilience still affects the Warlocks ability to output high instant burst damage, as it does with all classes. Dots are not High Instant burst damage, and the ability to mitigate resilience by focusing on non crit damage is available to every class.

Any class can stack spell damage / Attack power to maximise damage output in PvP. Warlocks are the only ones that seem to have picked up on this fact. Maybe the warlock player base is just much smarter than everyone else?

If resilience is going to affect Warlock Spell Damage based attacks, then it should equally apply to Everyone, and just be a flat damage reduction in PvP, applying it to ALL forms of warlock damage, and not just crit damage is farsicle and illogical.

[Mantisen]

Actually I don't have any problems at all with the Warlock class, I just think the logic behind applying resilience to dots is inherenly flawed, and calling me 'dishonest' does not change the fact that I am right. Resilience still affects the Warlocks ability to output high instant burst damage, as it does with all classes. Dots are not High Instant burst damage, and the ability to mitigate resilience by focusing on non crit damage is available to every class.

Any class can stack spell damage / Attack power to maximise damage output in PvP. Warlocks are the only ones that seem to have picked up on this fact. Maybe the warlock player base is just much smarter than everyone else?

If resilience is going to affect Warlock Spell Damage based attacks, then it should equally apply to Everyone, and just be a flat damage reduction in PvP, applying it to ALL forms of warlock damage, and not just crit damage is farsicle and illogical.

I must agree, applying resilience to attacks that are non-burst damage is the wrong approach. The resilience gear was introduced to lower the chances of getting 2-3 shotted by classes with high criticalstrike rating and high critts (spell and non -spell such) whilst DoT's never can do the same kind of burst damage against any kind of character. I do agree (being a healing shaman) the DoT's from warlocks and Shadow oriented priests are a pain, in and out of the arena floor, but I still do not agree with resilience applying to the one great output of damage Afflication / Demonology warlocks have. As mentioned above resilience allready apply to Shadowbolts / Soulfire / Incinerate, etc.. Suggestivly resilience can apply to DoT's but to a lower degree (not lowering DoT damage as much as it does critt chance / dmg). But thats just my idea...

Sincerely
Mantisen.