Arena Season 3

[Nero Duskwind]

Arlien hit the nail on the head.

Most low and some mid rated teams don't even PvP casually. What you have, that pisses of both semi-casual mid-rated arena players and hardcore arena elitists alike, are the PvE teams that point farm. They just gather a group, put 10 games in per week and farm points until they get the weapon(s) they want, then disband, their sole purpose to collect weapons for use in PvE. A routine that consists of no more than a half hour of half-hearted play (excluding wait downtime) hardly constitutes effort. Arena's about a lot more than just getting your 10 games in and calling it a day.

To bleeding-heart PvPers, arena weapons and gear are more than just items. They're status symbols, and the feeling of accomplishment is significantly diminished when you have point farmers and scrubs running around as decked out as you are. It's really no different than the PvEers who buy their gold in bulk to grab every AH BoE epic they could find for their toon. This rating req on S3 weapons is primarily aimed at stopping this, if nothing else. Unchecked, point farming cheats the system and shits on the efforts of both the middle-ranked teams clawing to be adequately equipped and the high-ranked teams to put in the blood, sweat, and tears to be the best and appropriately rewarded for such.

As for the fear of "rating-scalping," in hindsight, I doubt any high ranked team would willingly sacrifice team chemistry, much less a bounty of points, for a sack of gold to let some lowbie with a cart full of arena points piggyback them for a week and get his S3 weapons. I'd only cycle out for an active teammate who wants in on the action, never for a total stranger.

[Phalen]

All of that makes sense, I have a better idea of why ppl are upset over this issue. I just think that having a rating requirement is a slippery slope. Right now it might be only 1 wpn with it, but if it expands too much all those "casual" teams that are in it for the gear arnt going to do the Arena.

As I read through this, I keep asking myself "How many casual teams did they beat to get their high rating?" If its what I suspect (based on the ppl I know who are in Arena teams) its far more than the "hardcore" Arena teams. Nerfing the casual teams might end up being a case of biting the hand that feeds you.

[Keldoeri29]

Let the lowbies cry all they want. My main concern is that the minimum rate requirement gets set TOO high, creating a glass ceiling for the good teams that, despite their best efforts, just can't seem break through to meet the qualification.

Dammit dusk, again you put into words what i could not. THIS is my concern regarding the Rating Requirement ceiling, Blizzard setting is TOO high.

Simply bacause it is incredibly anoying for someone, that makes a great effort, and use alot of time achieving something, to see other less skilled (if not even noobish) and less dedicated players achieve the same. When you actually spwnd lots of time and efforts to do something you also want to get some reward for it, rather simple to me.

Beautifully answered, and an answer i completely understand. When you read my post, i was speaking as if the ceiling was already set too high, and for that i do apologize, as that is what my fear is..was...still is a bit...

It's not going to happen if Blizzard also implements a minimum lifetime participation percentage requirement on the team also, in order to prevent poor players from exploiting the system by paying high-caliber teams to piggyback their rating for a week.

If this happens, in conjunction with a 'casual friendly' ( so to speak ) rating requirement, then all my gripes in this thread can R.I.P

I really think you should stop whining about this, i dont see why you think that you should get every thing delivered without an effort in this game. Make up what you want with this game, if thats beeing casual and not really using that much time and effort to gain (for eksample) arena raitings, well then dont whine because you dont get all the items in the end. and btw all of this is comming from one of those "casuals", i have never been on a team with more than 1780 rating, and i wear only one a1 piece and 1 a2 piece.

For me its not about getting the items, RIGHT AWAY. Think of the people who can ONLY play a minimum of 10 games a week, who are not guilded, but love to play? I see a lot of un-guilded hunters (for example) that severely lack skill. Even if takes them 2 months to get one piece of uber gear, i still feel they should have the right to get SOMETHING..that's all

I do see what you mean though, about skilled players pouring out body and soul to get a great rating, hey me and dusk bust our butts out there and we have a pretty decent rating for our 3v3 and 5v5 teams along with the rest of team mate, i would hate for the ratings requirement to be so high as to not be able to get any of the great weapons im sure will be up there. Im glad only the weapons,which are by far some bigger upgrades have a requirement, i too worked hard for my Merciless Gladiator's Crossbow of the Phoenix I just would like everything to be fair to all INCLUDING those that work hard for their rating

[vonholck]

I do see what you mean though, about skilled players pouring out body and soul to get a great rating, hey me and dusk bust our butts out there and we have a pretty decent rating for our 3v3 and 5v5 teams along with the rest of team mate, i would hate for the ratings requirement to be so high as to not be able to get any of the great weapons im sure will be up there.

well i guess this just ends up with a discussion about wether 1900 is to high or not, a discussion i personally wouldnt take too far, as this is purelly decided by your way of playing :P though i must say that i personally think 1900 i quite fair, as it should be optainable for almost everyone. Also you gotta considder the quality of these items, prolly being close to TK/MH loot, so even if you gotta get to 1900 first, it still seem easier than clearing those instances to me

[Keldoeri29]

well i guess this just ends up with a discussion about wether 1900 is to high or not, a discussion i personally wouldnt take too far, as this is purelly decided by your way of playing though i must say that i personally think 1900 i quite fair, as it should be optainable for almost everyone. Also you gotta considder the quality of these items, prolly being close to TK/MH loot, so even if you gotta get to 1900 first, it still seem easier than clearing those instances to me

Ok, not to start yet another discussion, i do think 1900 is WAY too high. BUT there is not easy way to figure out a 'fair' rating. I think the best way to see what rating it could be at, is too look at any team below 1500 and see what gear they have. If the majority of the teams under 1500 have like 3/5 A2 and maybe 1-3 A2 weapons, then that means they dont give a crap about their rating. 1500 is the easiest rating to get because you start at that rating. If im right, then i believe the cap should be probably MINIMUM 1575. If you can't even keep your 'starting' rating, then thats where i join with the pvpers voices and say no, you don't get uber weapons. Even when you start at 1500, if the team is no good then that rating will drop pretty quickly i would think. Now, im wrong about sub 1500 teams having gear then the rating could be moved up a lil higher, probably to 1625 and so forth until we find a happy medium

Anywhoo, i guess i would say i would put the rating at 1575, not because my rating is around there, but because i think that would be a good 'starting' point for blizzard to work with anywhoo again when it comes to this discussion about minimum rating, there really is no 'right' or 'wrong' answer but bring your ideas

[Arlièn]

As I read through this, I keep asking myself "How many casual teams did they beat to get their high rating?" If its what I suspect (based on the ppl I know who are in Arena teams) its far more than the "hardcore" Arena teams. Nerfing the casual teams might end up being a case of biting the hand that feeds you.

shouldnt the rating system prevent this? i know it aint perfect, but does matter in this case.

[Phalen]

As I read through this, I keep asking myself "How many casual teams did they beat to get their high rating?" If its what I suspect (based on the ppl I know who are in Arena teams) its far more than the "hardcore" Arena teams. Nerfing the casual teams might end up being a case of biting the hand that feeds you.

shouldnt the rating system prevent this? i know it aint perfect, but does matter in this case.

It may be that I have a limited understanding of it . . . .but, from what i can tell, alot of the high ranking teams points come from beating casual teams. If you nerf/devalue the Arena play of casual teams, many will drop out, narrowing down the competition. While I am sure that many of the hardcore pvpers want this, i dont think they realize this would (possibly) take them out of the "high rating" category . . . and the rating required gear.

I just think that too many "hardcore" players (pve and pvp) dont realize how dependant they are on the "casual" players. There are far more casual players than hardcore players and those players are the ones who fill out the Arena circut so there are more than 10 teams, or go into the BGs so the wait times are not horrible. Thats what i meant by "biting the hand that feeds you". Of course, I think that the casual players are dependant on hardcore players too, it takes both kinds to make a game great.

[Legionn]

What it looks like to me is that alot of the posts are forgetting the fact that all these high end players are getting their equipment significantly faster than any of the casual players. It'll take a casual player months to get a new piece where a hardcore player will get each piece in a few weeks. That right there, being the first or getting it faster is all you deserve. Just because a casual, if they even are really casual, takes longer to get the same gear is no reason why they shouldn't get it.

[Juju]

I have a question.
What do you all think would happen if you could not buy arena gear without a minimum of 1900 rating?
Here's my answer, and I do want yours after it if you care to spend a minute or two writing it: Top teams would rule the world and no one or nothing could come challengze them due to the huge gear gap that would be created. I was for this change too at first, but I see more flaws in it than I would like to admit. Think about alts or new comers doing arenas with little squishy gear and not being able to get s2 (since s1 will be available through honor, but that still will take people a freaking long time to get the gear to reach a 1900 rating to get s2, not even talking about s3...). Arenas would just become the dullest thing ingame, it would remove the wholme challenge of it. Now, I'm not saying the idea is entirely bad, and I do think that the more points u have the highest rewards you should be getting (since, well, you simply deserve it). So?
Well, so, what if you needed different rating for different things (yea yea yea it's been said and re-said and re-re-resaid etc. but here's where I go further).
2 first peaces of S2 (when s3 comes out) would take 1650+ you would need 1750+to get the extra 2 pieces, 1850+to get 2 S3 peices and 2000get 4/4 s3 and 2100 get the S3 weapons.
For s2 weapons you could simply need to break 1950
Good? Bad? Tell me what you think

[bishop13]

To make my comment...

I think, any skilled player who is wearing AS1 gear is able to beat a less skilled player wearing AS3. We don't actually have the AS3 stats, but i assume AS3 will be a slightly improved AS2, as is AS2 compared to AS1. AS1 offers you resilience and pretty much stam and these gear will be avaiable as bg rewards once Season 3 starts.
Every player will then be able to get Arena Gear by playing bg, their Arena rating will not matter for that point...

So every team should be able to beat every other team in terms of gear. If you then loose a match, it will be rather a prob of team balance or your lack of playing skill! And therefore, I think its pretty much "fair" to do the "1900 rating-thing"!

In pve, I'm already happy to wear t4 level gear. Higher quality gear is not in reach for me because I'm not able to spend that much time in the game. But that doesn't depress me! I'm glad for the people wearing t6 and for me wearing t4 level^^.
I cannot demand wearing t5 or t6 for no work and the same is for pvp!

[Keldoeri29]

What do you all think would happen if you could not buy arena gear without a minimum of 1900 rating?

Ok, well as for Arena Weapons requirement thats all good and dandy, but again you can't set it too high or players would just find a way to get weapons elsewhere.

Now if you put a ratings requirement for Arena Gear and i believe there will be a few problems namely this one:

Top teams would rule the world and no one or nothing could come challengze them due to the huge gear gap that would be created.

Thats exactly what would happen if GEAR required a rating as well.

[Naburi]

in my opinion, i think that iff they put also a rating on armor that most of the low rating players will quit arena, i will (have about 1500/1600= sometimes i go over 1600 but lose again a few matches) maybe when i'll have better gear i'll be able to have a rating above 1600/1700, but i don't think 1800/1900 or even more = not as a casual player. iff all low rating player quit, then arena is FU because you'll have very long queues.

you know for low lev rating you need about 6/8 weeks for 1 item, and i don't talk about the weapons.

[Juju]

What do you all think would happen if you could not buy arena gear without a minimum of 1900 rating?

Ok, well as for Arena Weapons requirement thats all good and dandy, but again you can't set it too high or players would just find a way to get weapons elsewhere.

Now if you put a ratings requirement for Arena Gear and i believe there will be a few problems namely this one:

Top teams would rule the world and no one or nothing could come challengze them due to the huge gear gap that would be created.

Thats exactly what would happen if GEAR required a rating as well.

That's why I thought f this system, it would make it chalenging for newcomers, and old timers would still have an advantage, but the gear wouldn't be closed to starting arena players (even if it would take them a bit to get up top) whereas it seems to me that if u just say under 1900 rating u get nothing, no new players will get their hands on it, simply because they'll keep getting their ass kicked every time (only games won by newcomers woulld be becuase of an extrimely good set up or sheer luck, but in the end, they would still lose more than they'd win). This system would still leave a gap, but it could be crossed by players motivated enough (therefore the ones deserving the gear).

[Nero Duskwind]

I don't know what the final deal will be, but here's how I could see it working:

Season 3 Launch
Season 2 reward prices remain the same
Season 3 reward prices are significantly higher
Season 3 weaponry will have an 1800-1900 minimum rating requirement

Season 4 Launch
Season 2 will be cycled out and purchased by Honor points through BG vendors
Season 3 reward prices be slightly reduced
Season 3 weapons will have a slightly reduced minimum rating requirement (1700-1750)
Season 4 equipment pricing and prerequisites will be set at about what Season 3 was during the prior season.

Blizzard lowering S1 prices at the launch of S2 backfired. Cheaper gear did not deter players from point farming to the 5K cap and maxing out on as much S2 gear as they could buy. Raising the prices for S3 will hit the players where it counts and encourage undergeared players not to overlook the less expensive gear just because it's a season behind.

[ethraax]

I really can't stand it when people are like "this casual doesnt deserve x weapon or x gear" why? WHY don't they deserve it and you do?

maybe because the persons with 1900+ rating actually made an effort to gain these items? pvp looting should work the same way as pve, if you cant manage to kill a boss or atain a certain rank, well then its a nogo and you do not deserve to wear that piece of equipment.

You're an idiot. That's EXACTLY how PvE works.

Let's say you're running... Karazhan, a low tier raid. You can't down Curator (yea, I know, you're a noob, but whatever). So you keep clearing to Curator week after week. You get gear for doing this. Eventually you kill Curator out of the gear that you got from prev. bosses.

Now, look at PvP, esp arenas. Your team is two feral druids, let's say, or some other weird combo, with a 1400 rating. You don't farm up Honor gear - you're casual (like that guy stuck on Curator probably doesn't farm heroic gear). Eventually, week after week of points, you get the weapon you wanted.

Same deal - you get a little bit every week, whether it be 237 arena points a week, or maybe a small upgrade from early Karazhan bosses, you're creeping your way up casually, without much effort.

Also, as you get better in PvE, start clearing Kara/Gruul/Mag, you get more epics/week. Same with PvP - as you start getting better, with a 2000+ rating, you start getting more points/week, which means more epics/week (although probably a fraction of an epic every week, but after all, you don't get a raiding upgrade every single week anyway .


The big issue I have with the 1900 req is that all it takes to get that high is a right class makeup in a 2v2 and maybe one night of games. Really. It's pathetic how class-based 2v2 is. I think they should focus on fixing balance issues BEFORE trying to lock out casual players from enjoying their ONE shiney new weapon from months of grinding arena points.

[Keldoeri29]

The big issue I have with the 1900 req is that all it takes to get that high is a right class makeup in a 2v2 and maybe one night of games. Really. It's pathetic how class-based 2v2 is. I think they should focus on fixing balance issues BEFORE trying to lock out casual players from enjoying their ONE shiney new weapon from months of grinding arena points.

I didn't even think about that one, not only would a high rating requirement ( i ll not put a number as everyone's opinion of what 'high' is different, and only a high rating would hurt not a fair one) hurt Arena's pretty bad BUT it would also make 'cookie-cutter' class combo's even more prevalent, and thats something that i really can't stand, and is a completely different issue altogether

[Keldoeri29]

Season 3 Launch
Season 2 reward prices remain the same
Season 3 reward prices are significantly higher
Season 3 weaponry will have an(1575-1650)rating requirement

Season 4 Launch
Season 2 will be cycled out and purchased by Honor points through BG vendors
Season 3 reward prices be slightly reduced
Season 3 weapons will have a slightly reduced minimum rating requirement (1500-1600)
Season 4 equipment pricing and prerequisites will be set at about what Season 3 was during the prior season.

Blizzard lowering S1 prices at the launch of S2 backfired. Cheaper gear did not deter players from point farming to the 5K cap and maxing out on as much S2 gear as they could buy. Raising the prices for S3 will hit the players where it counts and encourage undergeared players not to overlook the less expensive gear just because it's a season behind.

Fixed :P

But as usual, i agree with this statement

[Nero Duskwind]

1600 is too lenient that it trivializes the intent. 1900 is too high so as to create a glass ceiling. IMO 1800 is a good place to start, with a drop to 1700 or 1750 the following season to be rather reasonable.

And yes, classes need to be re-evaluated and balanced for 2v2 in order to stop the trend of noobs powerleveling their 2v2 ratings just because they can't hack it in 3v3 or 5v5.

[Juju]

Season 3 Launch
Season 2 reward prices remain the same
Season 3 reward prices are significantly higher
Season 3 weaponry will have an(1575-1650)rating requirement

Season 4 Launch
Season 2 will be cycled out and purchased by Honor points through BG vendors
Season 3 reward prices be slightly reduced
Season 3 weapons will have a slightly reduced minimum rating requirement (1500-1600)
Season 4 equipment pricing and prerequisites will be set at about what Season 3 was during the prior season.

Blizzard lowering S1 prices at the launch of S2 backfired. Cheaper gear did not deter players from point farming to the 5K cap and maxing out on as much S2 gear as they could buy. Raising the prices for S3 will hit the players where it counts and encourage undergeared players not to overlook the less expensive gear just because it's a season behind.

Fixed :P

But as usual, i agree with this statement

Then you might as well leave the S1 gear in it... I still don't see why honor should get arena gear...

[Phalen]

Season 3 Launch
Season 2 reward prices remain the same
Season 3 reward prices are significantly higher
Season 3 weaponry will have an(1575-1650)rating requirement

Season 4 Launch
Season 2 will be cycled out and purchased by Honor points through BG vendors
Season 3 reward prices be slightly reduced
Season 3 weapons will have a slightly reduced minimum rating requirement (1500-1600)
Season 4 equipment pricing and prerequisites will be set at about what Season 3 was during the prior season.

Blizzard lowering S1 prices at the launch of S2 backfired. Cheaper gear did not deter players from point farming to the 5K cap and maxing out on as much S2 gear as they could buy. Raising the prices for S3 will hit the players where it counts and encourage undergeared players not to overlook the less expensive gear just because it's a season behind.

Fixed :P

But as usual, i agree with this statement

Then you might as well leave the S1 gear in it... I still don't see why honor should get arena gear...

It will give newcomers to the Arena half a chance to compete, which (like ive said before) will keep the interest in Arena play up.