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  1. #301

    Re: Again PvE items getting close to being better than PvP for PvP

    Quote Originally Posted by Narzania
    What ?? Its not insane if you have to spent 35 entire talents in Arms to go to +5% MS dmg more? Have you ever been 41/20 latelly? Well I have and I can tell you how much insane dmg I do. Added an extra 5% dmg on MS its just amazing and coupled with Improved MS u have +10% which scales with gear its just out of any imagination how dmg you can make. In a 1200 normal MS hit a 5% would be 1260, 60 extra damage equivalent to 220 AP. Is it negligible? MS is our primary talent for our Existence in PvP otherwise we would be close to useless.

    Also there is an entire point spent on Execute. If you are 33/28 you can actually take another talent instead of IE to benefit more from it. And do you know how much -3 rage in execute translates in damage? ok here it is 21*3=63 more damage which is equal to 231 more AP. Do you really think its nothing?

    Add all the above to Armor penetration which the gear gives.
    And apparently those 5% are so insane, that's why we see so many 41/20/0 warriors /sarcasm? And no I have not been 41/20/0 lately, as a matter of fact the last time I ever went past 34 points in arms was pre-TBC in 2.0 when they nerfed the shit out of rage generation. And just because MS is the primary reason for your existence in PVP doesn't mean the whole class is based on MS. It's the combination of many things, with MS added on top of it. Also, you're forgetting improved MS lowers the CD on MS by 1 second where the set bonus doesn't.

    And yes 63 more damage on an execute in PVP means nothing. 20% of someone's health is around 2400ish at most, 63 damage isn't gonna make the difference between a kill or not. Hell in many situations I've found myself just finishing people off without execute because if your execute fails to kill someone enjoy your 0 rage and your target getting healed back to full.

    You're also completely forgetting that for these 5% increased MS damage and the negligible -3 rage cost on execute you're sacrificing 35 resilience and -5 second CD on intercept, I would take the intercept bonus over the 2 on onslaught already when you're talking PVP.

    And sure I'll remind myself to add all that armor penetration on this "Level 70 corpse" because he got nuked by 2 people. I'm willing to bet that you could even make 1 person force him to put on a shield and defensive stance in order to survive.

  2. #302

    Re: Again PvE items getting close to being better than PvP for PvP

    Quote Originally Posted by Lesane
    And apparently those 5% are so insane, that's why we see so many 41/20/0 warriors /sarcasm? And no I have not been 41/20/0 lately, as a matter of fact the last time I ever went past 34 points in arms was pre-TBC in 2.0 when they nerfed the shit out of rage generation. And just because MS is the primary reason for your existence in PVP doesn't mean the whole class is based on MS. It's the combination of many things, with MS added on top of it. Also, you're forgetting improved MS lowers the CD on MS by 1 second where the set bonus doesn't.

    And yes 63 more damage on an execute in PVP means nothing. 20% of someone's health is around 2400ish at most, 63 damage isn't gonna make the difference between a kill or not. Hell in many situations I've found myself just finishing people off without execute because if your execute fails to kill someone enjoy your 0 rage and your target getting healed back to full.

    You're also completely forgetting that for these 5% increased MS damage and the negligible -3 rage cost on execute you're sacrificing 35 resilience and -5 second CD on intercept, I would take the intercept bonus over the 2 on onslaught already when you're talking PVP.

    And sure I'll remind myself to add all that armor penetration on this "Level 70 corpse" because he got nuked by 2 people. I'm willing to bet that you could even make 1 person force him to put on a shield and defensive stance in order to survive.
    I have been seeing top warriors 41/20 or close to it.

  3. #303

    Re: Again PvE items getting close to being better than PvP for PvP

    Quote Originally Posted by Lesane
    For overall PVP performance, the PVP items are king, simple as that.
    This is very untrue for paladins. PvE gear is so much better than PvP gear it's just silly. I'm almost NEVER the first target, so all that resilience, armour and stamina is just wasted.
    Hell, karazhan gear is almost better for pvp than season 3. Mixing pvp and pve gear is good for any class (Cataclysm's Edge much? ), but it's absurd for paladins. It's not cool to be subpar in pvp just because you have pvp gear, and not 4/5 Tier 6.

  4. #304

    Re: Again PvE items getting close to being better than PvP for PvP

    Quote Originally Posted by Ilara
    This is very untrue for paladins. PvE gear is so much better than PvP gear it's just silly. I'm almost NEVER the first target, so all that resilience, armour and stamina is just wasted.
    Hell, karazhan gear is almost better for pvp than season 3. Mixing pvp and pve gear is good for any class (Cataclysm's Edge much? ), but it's absurd for paladins. It's not cool to be subpar in pvp just because you have pvp gear, and not 4/5 Tier 6.
    True and not true. Paladins in 5vs5 doens't need so much resilience and "PvP gear" but in 2vs2, mehh go test and heal with T6.

  5. #305

    Re: Again PvE items getting close to being better than PvP for PvP

    Quote Originally Posted by Lamberta
    I have been seeing top warriors 41/20 or close to it.
    http://www.sk-gaming.com/arena/5/all/warrior/all/all/

    This is very untrue for paladins. PvE gear is so much better than PvP gear it's just silly. I'm almost NEVER the first target, so all that resilience, armour and stamina is just wasted.
    Hell, karazhan gear is almost better for pvp than season 3. Mixing pvp and pve gear is good for any class (Cataclysm's Edge much? ), but it's absurd for paladins. It's not cool to be subpar in pvp just because you have pvp gear, and not 4/5 Tier 6.
    You're pretty much talking the same stuff as these warriors here who all are crying that PVE gear is better if you're not getting focused first. Like I said, no shit, but the thing is that the reason they're not focusing you is because you are probably the hardest guy to kill on your team, as soon as you start walking around with PVE items that trait suddenly fades and it will be exploited like hell by the other team until you switch to PVP gear. I remember losing a 5v5 vs. some team with a hunter, later on we found out he was wearing PVE gear, so on 2nd round we focused on him and he dropped within 10 seconds.

  6. #306

    Re: Again PvE items getting close to being better than PvP for PvP

    Quote Originally Posted by Lesane
    http://www.sk-gaming.com/arena/5/all/warrior/all/all/

    You're pretty much talking the same stuff as these warriors here who all are crying that PVE gear is better if you're not getting focused first. Like I said, no shit, but the thing is that the reason they're not focusing you is because you are probably the hardest guy to kill on your team, as soon as you start walking around with PVE items that trait suddenly fades and it will be exploited like hell by the other team until you switch to PVP gear. I remember losing a 5v5 vs. some team with a hunter, later on we found out he was wearing PVE gear, so on 2nd round we focused on him and he dropped within 10 seconds.
    Well yeah you get zerged sometimes. But even at high rating that's pretty rare. Friend of mine played really really high and he only got gibbed 1/20 games or so. I'd take that loss if you perform twice as good those 19 games.

  7. #307

    Re: Again PvE items getting close to being better than PvP for PvP

    I didn't read through all these pages but I'm just gonna throw in my personal opinion on the subject:

    I aggree with the OP!!

    :P

    Seriously though, I do. Not all pve gear is better, but much of it simply is. even more so before S3 came out. tons of pve'ers were already clearing mount hyjal and the greater part of BT months before S3 came out and even now, some of the gear there is still (way) better then what you can get through pvp. I'm mostly talking about rings and trinkets and stuff like that, but even some armor pieces and weapons. and then offcourse the gems...

    another think i greatly dislike is that these pve'ers can simply walse in arenas and own the crap out of most teams because their pve gear is better then the pvp gear, loot some pvp epics and go back to pve'ing. while us pvp'ers have no such option.

  8. #308

    Re: Again PvE items getting close to being better than PvP for PvP

    Quote Originally Posted by Sacristar
    I didn't read through all these pages but I'm just gonna throw in my personal opinion on the subject:

    I aggree with the OP!!

    :P

    Seriously though, I do. Not all pve gear is better, but much of it simply is. even more so before S3 came out. tons of pve'ers were already clearing mount hyjal and the greater part of BT months before S3 came out and even now, some of the gear there is still (way) better then what you can get through pvp. I'm mostly talking about rings and trinkets and stuff like that, but even some armor pieces and weapons. and then offcourse the gems...

    another think i greatly dislike is that these pve'ers can simply walse in arenas and own the crap out of most teams because their pve gear is better then the pvp gear, loot some pvp epics and go back to pve'ing. while us pvp'ers have no such option.
    Yeah they waltz in. They raided months and put in a shitload more effort to get their gear than you did if you solely pvp.

    And why don't you have the option? Its hardly their fault that you aren't able to raid is it?

  9. #309
    Deleted

    Re: Again PvE items getting close to being better than PvP for PvP

    this whole discussion is just silly. There's PvP-ers that moan about PvE-ers owning their asses, and PvE-ers complaining about PvP-ers getting EZmode epix by doing 10 games of arena each week.

    I suggest to you all: do both, and take the best from both.

  10. #310

    Re: Again PvE items getting close to being better than PvP for PvP

    Quote Originally Posted by joopxiv
    this whole discussion is just silly. There's PvP-ers that moan about PvE-ers owning their asses, and PvE-ers complaining about PvP-ers getting EZmode epix by doing 10 games of arena each week.

    I suggest to you all: do both, and take the best from both.
    do both? actually pvers got ez mode cuse they have easy access to pvp.the opposite is not true..

  11. #311

    Re: Again PvE items getting close to being better than PvP for PvP

    For the noobs who are stuck on imp execute and 2 piece t6 warrior bonus. It's not about more dmg on your execute, it's about being able to execute at a far lower rage cost in general. If I have 37 rage I can now ms you THEN execute you, not just one or the other.

    As for pve gear vs pvp gear. Raiders put far more time into their pve gear. Pve gear is rather crappy for arenas at higher ratings. So if you are in arena gear and you keep running into teams with nothing but raiding gear, try not sucking and getting into the 1900's and above and play with nothing but your arena geared teams. PvE geared teams get toasted by good arena geared teams. Key word is good. Just because you have 4/5 s3 all the honor gear and season 2 weapons doesn't mean you are a good player. If you have that kind of gear and lose to a heavily pve geared team, then you just fail or your group composition blows.

    Same goes for your raid. If your raid is getting owned in dmg by someone in strictly pvp gear or some healer who is blowing away all your other healers in nothing but pvp gear something is horribly wrong.

  12. #312

    Re: Again PvE items getting close to being better than PvP for PvP

    For the noobs who are stuck on imp execute and 2 piece t6 warrior bonus. It's not about more dmg on your execute, it's about being able to execute at a far lower rage cost in general. if I have 35 rage I can now ms you THEN execute you, not just one or the other.
    You have some special hacks that allows you to execute with 5 rage?

  13. #313

    Re: Again PvE items getting close to being better than PvP for PvP

    If your running around in T6 with a BT/MH weapon, why are you Pvping?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kish8586
    I tihnk wehn naruto uses teh spirit bomb on vegeta den he will b defeated and tehn he can fite teh homonclus taht ed made cuz he cant cuz its his mawm!!! ^______________________^

  14. #314

    Re: Again PvE items getting close to being better than PvP for PvP

    for fun?

  15. #315

    Re: Again PvE items getting close to being better than PvP for PvP

    Quote Originally Posted by Utal
    If your running around in T6 with a BT/MH weapon, why are you Pvping?
    Perhaps because you cleared the PVE content and there's nothing to use the gear on besides PVP?

  16. #316

    Re: Again PvE items getting close to being better than PvP for PvP

    Quote Originally Posted by Biohazardx
    PvE geared teams get toasted by good arena geared teams. Key word is good. Just because you have 4/5 s3 all the honor gear and season 2 weapons doesn't mean you are a good player. If you have that kind of gear and lose to a heavily pve geared team, then you just fail or your group composition blows.
    is that why so many pve geared teams dominated the ladder in 2's in S2? no amount of resillience is going to save you from a warrior with over 30 crit, 1900 unbuffed ap and 1000 armor penetration. and you're not gonna outlast a pally with 2.2k healing and 200 mp5 either, 500 resillience or not...

  17. #317
    Dreadlord
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    Re: Again PvE items getting close to being better than PvP for PvP

    Quote Originally Posted by Narzania
    What ?? Its not insane if you have to spent 35 entire talents in Arms to go to +5% MS dmg more? Have you ever been 41/20 latelly? Well I have and I can tell you how much insane dmg I do. Added an extra 5% dmg on MS its just amazing and coupled with Improved MS u have +10% which scales with gear its just out of any imagination how dmg you can make. In a 1200 normal MS hit a 5% would be 1260, 60 extra damage equivalent to 220 AP. Is it negligible? MS is our primary talent for our Existence in PvP otherwise we would be close to useless.

    Also there is an entire point spent on Execute. If you are 33/28 you can actually take another talent instead of IE to benefit more from it. And do you know how much -3 rage in execute translates in damage? ok here it is 21*3=63 more damage which is equal to 231 more AP. Do you really think its nothing?

    Add all the above to Armor penetration which the gear gives.
    Post some WWS... I believe number not opinions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimlor
    Deleted half the thread and gave someone a well deserved ban.

    Ladies and Gentlemen, this forum is NOT grammar school, this forum IS a gaming community. We ask everyone to post in their best-as-possible English.

    We do NOT want to see people getting bashed for poor English writing skills. I read the OP's post and I understood him perfectly fine if I put some effort into it. If you are unwilling to put effort into reading a post, please don't put effort in writing your unwanted opinion about it's grammar/spelling/choice of words.

  18. #318

    Re: Again PvE items getting close to being better than PvP for PvP

    Quote Originally Posted by Sacristar
    is that why so many pve geared teams dominated the ladder in 2's in S2? no amount of resillience is going to save you from a warrior with over 30 crit, 1900 unbuffed ap and 1000 armor penetration. and you're not gonna outlast a pally with 2.2k healing and 200 mp5 either, 500 resillience or not...
    Compared to what? A warrior with 30% crit and 1700 AP unbuffed and ~500 resilience?

    Your 30% crit turns into 18% crit and he is taking ~25% less damage from the attacks that do crit, while his crit stays at 30% and you take full damage from the crits?

    PvE gear is good and all, but don't under estimate resilience. Two days ago we went up against a rogue in a 3v3 that had the Twin Blades off of Illidan and we still beat them. So just because someone has great pve gear doesn't make them the best pvper.

  19. #319

    Re: Again PvE items getting close to being better than PvP for PvP

    Quote Originally Posted by Sacristar
    is that why so many pve geared teams dominated the ladder in 2's in S2? no amount of resillience is going to save you from a warrior with over 30 crit, 1900 unbuffed ap and 1000 armor penetration. and you're not gonna outlast a pally with 2.2k healing and 200 mp5 either, 500 resillience or not...
    You don't need resilience to save yourself from a warrior with those stats, all you have to do is apply pressure on him since he has no resilience he will be forced into shield/defensive stance mode or he will die, enjoy DPSing with a 1h for the duration of the match. No one needs to outlast that pally either, all you have to do is shut him down like you do with any paladin.

  20. #320

    Re: Again PvE items getting close to being better than PvP for PvP

    Quote Originally Posted by Lesane
    You have some special hacks that allows you to execute with 5 rage?
    Meh, gimme a break. I was making a point not trying to flex my math muscle. So pretend it always said 37 rage. =P

    And to Utal, like was already said. If there was new content for my guild to push I wouldn't be pvping at all until it was cleared.

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