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  1. #81

    Re: Again PvE items getting close to being better than PvP for PvP

    Quote Originally Posted by Secretive
    Here's an issue.
    PvE'ers get the ability to get goodies intended for PvP from PvE encounters, but PvP'ers are not afforded the same opportunity. This is enough of a handicap, we don't need any hardcore PvE'ers giving us grief.
    Absolutelly true!

    If getting PvP gear is so easy it means that PvErs USE PvP easiness to get high end wepaons to progress in PvE and get even better gear than pure PvPrs.

    So, some one tell me, is it as easy for a PvPrs to have access to equivalent PvE content the same way PvErs have access to PvP content? Even after the changes in S3 this will still prevail.


  2. #82

    Re: Again PvE items getting close to being better than PvP for PvP

    Quote Originally Posted by dim

    so let Blizz do things diff, if you wanna earn your points in arena, then team to achive full points needs 200 games, not 10 with 30% games played for each player. And if you play less then 200 games, you get less % of max points for your ranking depending how many games you played.

    that way you can still play 10 games a week, and you will get your chest in about 1 year. if PvP players want their full Arena 2 sets then bloody earn them like PvE players earn their full T5 sets.

    then i doubt there will be third alts in full arena sets.

    ppl who played before TBC they remember Grand Marshalls or horde equal, dont know the rank. When you seen someone with that title and full set, everyone knew that he/she earned it hard.

    imo, its all about that....to make the equal effort of PvP and PvE player to get their gear. Its ok if some pvp items drops in pve or some pvp item is better then some pve. it makes ppl see other things in game too. WoW atm is not full PvE nor full PvP, its a mix and everyone plays it their way.
    I dont have any problem playing 200 games every week. The problem is that most people in my team (actually I am the only exception) are PvErs (coming form PvE realm) and a requirement of 200 (even 50 games) games per week in a PvE will completelly kill PvP for the remaining ones (PvP players). This is because many PvE players hardly can find any time to play during the week and we can hardly manage to gather 5 people to play 50 games each Saturday.


  3. #83

    Re: Again PvE items getting close to being better than PvP for PvP

    Quote Originally Posted by Lesane
    In order to get your season 2 set you need 0 gear, you need 0 skill, you need 0 teamwork, you need 1 hour a week to get your 10 games for points.
    Erm I would have to disagree here, if you have 0 skill then your rating will really get crap and will take aggeeesss to get the Season's gear set. Better to wait then till the Season's arena gear transfers to the Honor BG system just as the S1 gear will when S3 comes live. ANd how long does this take? About 10 months? Well how far can u progress PvE wise in 10 months? Perhaps very far?

  4. #84

    Re: Again PvE items getting close to being better than PvP for PvP

    Quote Originally Posted by Narzania
    Erm I would have to disagree here, if you have 0 skill then your rating will really get crap and will take aggeeesss to get the Season's gear set. Better to wait then till the Season's arena gear transfers to the Honor BG system just as the S1 gear will when S3 comes live. ANd how long does this take? About 10 months? Well how far can u progress PvE wise in 10 months? Perhaps very far?
    Perhaps you misunderstand. Your points never go negative... so as soon as you actually kill a player - you gain points.
    I'm not the arena type of guy, but I'm doing BGs around 1 hour a day. Late night. In the time S3 comes out I'll have enough honor for 2 pieces of S1. That's quite and epic upgrade over no gear and no skills/talants in pvp right? I guess it's just not made for bad players. /sarcasm off

  5. #85

    Re: Again PvE items getting close to being better than PvP for PvP

    Quote Originally Posted by overneathe
    Perhaps you misunderstand. Your points never go negative... so as soon as you actually kill a player - you gain points.
    I'm not the arena type of guy, but I'm doing BGs around 1 hour a day. Late night. In the time S3 comes out I'll have enough honor for 2 pieces of S1. That's quite and epic upgrade over no gear and no skills/talants in pvp right? I guess it's just not made for bad players. /sarcasm off
    Ah sorry I was refering to Arena gear and not BG gear

  6. #86

    Re: Again PvE items getting close to being better than PvP for PvP

    Typical case:

    PvP Player wanting to PvE:

    Player: Today I wanna join guild (medium level-doing TK) start earning DKP and attend the first TK raid.

    What we face (mostly applicable to warriors)?

    Guild: Negative answer- 1) Who are you? 2) Why are you on full PvP gear? 3) Go do heroics farm protection gear and respec protection if you are willing to do so and re-apply 4) You reapply after 1 month and answer..."srry post taken"

    Guild: Positive answer: 1) You will be on rotation basis- too many warriors 2) Well you first need to pass 15 day - 1 month trial in which time you will not be eligible for any loot

    PvE player wanting to PvP:

    Player: /g I wanna form arena team I need this, this and that class....

    Guild: Millions of positive replies- you chose the best players

    Player: Oh great we already got a great composition of players with all Veteran gear (since PvP gear is so easily accessible to PvE ppl)

    Guild: Yes on top of our great PvE dps + healing gear we have full Veteran..we will smash faces he he he. So you wanna join Arena now?

    Conclusion:

    Why u make PvP player's life so difficult by making his switchability or desire to PvE so hard. The ease at which a PvE player can join arena, get PvP gear on top of the PvE one is incredible.

    It should be as hard for PvE players to do PvP as it is for PvP players to do PvE.

    And as for the items, yes there are many accessories out there in the PvE world that a PvP player may never see.


  7. #87
    Secretive
    Guest

    Re: Again PvE items getting close to being better than PvP for PvP

    It should be as hard for PvE players to do PvP as it is for PvP players to do PvE.
    /thread right there.

    But the problem IS, without Arena I think even more PvE'ers would have quit the game long ago. This is because organized Arena team play is super fun for them and it gives them a chance to 'let off some steam' from the raiding week (God, almost sounds like a job...)

    Anyways, to the poster that says it takes 0 skill, 0 talent, 0 whatever to obtain gear such as I have, I'll say that you're completely off-base and you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

    Simply stated, here's some mathematics.

    Head - 1875
    Pants - 1875
    Chest - 1875
    Shoulders - 1500
    Gloves - 1125
    Mainhand healing mace - 3150 (Or was it 3125? Gosh, it was so long ago I can't remember...)
    Reprieve - 1125

    That's a total of 12,525 points.

    Now, a 5v5 team that loses 10 games a week, each week starting at 1500 (remaking the team or what have you) will be rated a conservative 1400 (Assuming each loss is approximately 10 points, prolly gonna be even more at 1500...) That Arena team will make 338 points a week. Let's take 12,525 and divide 338 into it. What do you get? Math saver: 37 and some change. 37 WEEKS. Approximately NINE MONTHS will be necessary to achieve what you say.

    To get full Merciless and accessories and have 'zero skill'... the only way to do this was to have saved ALL... and I mean all... of your 5,000 Arena season 1 points and rolled them into S2, then started purchasing.

    I have never found a 2000+ rated arena game to be easy. Ever. Never. Not even with a Warrior teammate (zomg, OPz0rz nerf pl0z or whatever)

    In conclusion, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, and should stop.

  8. #88

    Re: Again PvE items getting close to being better than PvP for PvP

    Quote Originally Posted by Narzania
    As I read on the 2.2 notes the TK and SSC weapons are getting upgrades.....

    Well I must say the following:

    1) Why then not upgrading Arena weapons too?

    2) Why then do you have to place rating requirement to get Best Arena weapons...some teams may NEVER get them with rating requirement of 1.9k. In PvE you are quaranteed to get it sometime as your gear improves because it improves relative to the mobs you fight and not relative to the other players you fight who, in turn, improve at the same pace as you (or faster) which makes no difference in real terms.

    3) Why do PvP players who have BS craftet weapons have to do PvE to get the Vortexes to upgrade their weapon?

    4) Why best accessories (rings, Trinkets etc) can be obtained though PvE and not PvP? What Trinket we got for PvP? The medallion? The Healing one?Where are the dps Trinkets?

    5) Warriors are usually targetted last in Arenas, therefore making high end PVE items (Upgraded weapons + Trinkets + DPS rings etc) their dps insane in Arenas...as last targets who cares abt resilience if all players are already dead in your team?
    1) They are upgrading weapons S3 which is soon. 3-4 weeks from now they should be on vendor hopefuly! I know seems like a long time but it would prob take you longer to get a PVE weapon.

    2) Well i kinda like having rating requirements for gear. It stops team hoppers. Its so annoying right now ppl leave and enter teams ALL the time just to do their 10. Hopefuly this will encourage ppl to stick to 1 team and work together to make it better and hit the 1900 rating. I see S3 weapons and shoulders as rewards for the effort put into an arena team. Personally i would like everything to have rating requirement. Its so much more rewarding when you actually get the item after the hard work done to achieve the rating. Not everyone will have it. Gives you some sort of l33tness

    Also, considering the s2 weapons will be going down in price is very good for teams with average ratings. The s2 weapons arent bad at all. Im guessing 1.5k for 2h? Thats so cheap.

    3) Those are PVE weapons. Perhaps the 2h mace is considered pvp atm but it shouldnt proc as much after 2.3? I believe S3 weapons will be better than any BS weapon. I mean, the S2 weapons are almost as good (DPS wise) and offer resilience which BS weapons dont offer...

    4) Medallion is sort of mandatory to use. So basically you only need to find another trinket. They are putting in the new trinket in 2.3. I dont think its too bad, considering it has dps and can save your ass too.

    5) While i agree with you warriors are usually not the first targets, having PVE gear as a warrior can backfire.

  9. #89

    Re: Again PvE items getting close to being better than PvP for PvP

    Quote Originally Posted by Secretive
    /thread right there.

    But the problem IS, without Arena I think even more PvE'ers would have quit the game long ago. This is because organized Arena team play is super fun for them and it gives them a chance to 'let off some steam' from the raiding week (God, almost sounds like a job...)

    Anyways, to the poster that says it takes 0 skill, 0 talent, 0 whatever to obtain gear such as I have, I'll say that you're completely off-base and you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

    Simply stated, here's some mathematics.

    Head - 1875
    Pants - 1875
    Chest - 1875
    Shoulders - 1500
    Gloves - 1125
    Mainhand healing mace - 3150 (Or was it 3125? Gosh, it was so long ago I can't remember...)
    Reprieve - 1125

    That's a total of 12,525 points.

    Now, a 5v5 team that loses 10 games a week, each week starting at 1500 (remaking the team or what have you) will be rated a conservative 1400 (Assuming each loss is approximately 10 points, prolly gonna be even more at 1500...) That Arena team will make 338 points a week. Let's take 12,525 and divide 338 into it. What do you get? Math saver: 37 and some change. 37 WEEKS. Approximately NINE MONTHS will be necessary to achieve what you say.

    To get full Merciless and accessories and have 'zero skill'... the only way to do this was to have saved ALL... and I mean all... of your 5,000 Arena season 1 points and rolled them into S2, then started purchasing.

    I have never found a 2000+ rated arena game to be easy. Ever. Never. Not even with a Warrior teammate (zomg, OPz0rz nerf pl0z or whatever)

    In conclusion, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, and should stop.
    The bottom line is, at the end of those 9 months you WILL have the gear. If you suck at PVE for 9 months non stop and don't manage to kill anything, you will come out with NOTHING. With PVP you WILL eventually walk out in that full set, no matter how much you suck. THAT is the difference.

    I've never said it's realistic that a player with no skill or teamwork at all will get a full set, but it IS possible. To do the same in PVE is simply impossible unless if Blizzard nerfs the encounters to such a level that it becomes almost impossible to not beat it. (not gonna happen)

    Also, like you mention saving points makes the idea of terrible players getting a full PVP set even more realistic. With 5000 saved points you can purchase 3/5 armor right off the bat, that leaves you with 2 more armor pieces, a weapon(s) and a ranged slot to fill up.

    This is without mentioning people buying teams. You can easily buy 2k+ rated teams nowadays, sure within 3 weeks you will be sitting at 1600 rating because you've lost everything but you have your points and can just buy another 2k+ team. It's not like the PVP players mind selling a 2k rated team, they've gotten there the first time so why shouldn't they be able to pull it off again? That is, unless they only fought the earlier mentioned people who buy teams on their road to 2k+ which is very unlikely.

    And ofcourse, warlocks. :P

  10. #90
    Secretive
    Guest

    Re: Again PvE items getting close to being better than PvP for PvP

    Personal rating takes care of that point for you, Lesane. No more team buying, no more QQ. Thank God, sick of hearing about it.

    Next, you mean to tell me that there aren't some very slacking/poor playing people in topend raiding guilds? Puh-lease. Before I "quit" raiding I was just starting Hyjal and this was months ago... The guild I was in back then has killed Stormrage. In a group of 25 w/ 7 backups, at least 4 or 5 of them were not on the same level as the remainder of the group.

    And in essence, they got welfare epics. It's not as prevalent as it was back in Naxxramas days when you could have 25 people carry 15 others through the encounters, but you're completely naive if you think that there aren't some free-loaders in high-end PvE guilds clearing Black Temple.

    Further, raiding guilds sell places for people to buy loot off bosses in farm content dungeons, same deal as Arena teams right? Sure, there's much more luck involved in the drops, but the same principle exists.

    The excuse of "OMG, PvP is so easy in like a year you can have full Merciless crap" is just that, an excuse used by PvE'ers to stretch their E-Peens a bit more or make themselves feel better about spending 4-6 hours a night, 4-5 days a week in some instanced dungeon with boss encounter scripts that are meant to be defeated.

    But whatever, in S3 the rating requirements will be nice. I especially like the personal rating system... Let's hope it works out like it theoretically will.

  11. #91

    Re: Again PvE items getting close to being better than PvP for PvP

    Quote Originally Posted by Secretive
    /thread right there.

    But the problem IS, without Arena I think even more PvE'ers would have quit the game long ago. This is because organized Arena team play is super fun for them and it gives them a chance to 'let off some steam' from the raiding week (God, almost sounds like a job...)

    Anyways, to the poster that says it takes 0 skill, 0 talent, 0 whatever to obtain gear such as I have, I'll say that you're completely off-base and you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

    Simply stated, here's some mathematics.

    Head - 1875
    Pants - 1875
    Chest - 1875
    Shoulders - 1500
    Gloves - 1125
    Mainhand healing mace - 3150 (Or was it 3125? Gosh, it was so long ago I can't remember...)
    Reprieve - 1125

    That's a total of 12,525 points.

    Now, a 5v5 team that loses 10 games a week, each week starting at 1500 (remaking the team or what have you) will be rated a conservative 1400 (Assuming each loss is approximately 10 points, prolly gonna be even more at 1500...) That Arena team will make 338 points a week. Let's take 12,525 and divide 338 into it. What do you get? Math saver: 37 and some change. 37 WEEKS. Approximately NINE MONTHS will be necessary to achieve what you say.

    To get full Merciless and accessories and have 'zero skill'... the only way to do this was to have saved ALL... and I mean all... of your 5,000 Arena season 1 points and rolled them into S2, then started purchasing.

    I have never found a 2000+ rated arena game to be easy. Ever. Never. Not even with a Warrior teammate (zomg, OPz0rz nerf pl0z or whatever)

    In conclusion, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, and should stop.
    Completelly agree with you Secretive. Really thanks for your answer.

    And to all of you, please read carefully Secretive's simple mathematics and you will realise how "easy" it is.

    And honestly, to the one who says you need 0 skill? Well let me ask you a question which will also answer your really conclusion: Do you think that fighting an NPC/Boss/Mob which has been created by Human beings is harder to beat compared to beating a human being himself?

    And to the last post of Secretive. I totally agree, I know many cases where people just buy the epics by joining raids.

  12. #92

    Re: Again PvE items getting close to being better than PvP for PvP

    I just wish they'd make PvE token based or point based somehow, so its less of luck to get gear and more of work, more like PvP.

    PvE gear is always a tier above PvP anyway, when Season 3 comes out they'll be releasing Sunwell Plateau shortly after so that Tier 7 will be one more than Season 3 (Tier 6 PvP)
    9/11/08 - Priests will never forgive, and never forget.

  13. #93

    Re: Again PvE items getting close to being better than PvP for PvP

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowclaimer
    I just wish they'd make PvE token based or point based somehow, so its less of luck to get gear and more of work, more like PvP.

    PvE gear is always a tier above PvP anyway, when Season 3 comes out they'll be releasing Sunwell Plateau shortly after so that Tier 7 will be one more than Season 3 (Tier 6 PvP)
    True.

    I also wish PvP guilds could be viable. I am currently in a PvP guild and it is useless. And how would PvP guilds be viable?

    Instead of making 2v2-5v5 Arena teams make larger Arena environments with 15+ people where more should participate. I believe that through this way PvP guilds will be much more viable.

    It could be something which is very similar to WSG or even WSG it self but in Arena terms meaning that the winner is the one who either 1) Scores 1 flag (not 3 but one) or 2) The team who kills the other one first (whichever of the two comes first)

  14. #94

    Re: Again PvE items getting close to being better than PvP for PvP

    Quote Originally Posted by Narzania
    2) Why then do you have to place rating requirement to get Best Arena weapons...some teams may NEVER get them with rating requirement of 1.9k. In PvE you are quaranteed to get it sometime as your gear improves because it improves relative to the mobs you fight and not relative to the other players you fight who, in turn, improve at the same pace as you (or faster) which makes no difference in real terms.
    Spoken like someone who has no idea how PvE drops work.

    We are not "quaranteed" (it is guaranteed, g not q) to get upgrades just from going. Thanks to the random number generator, it can take guilds months of farming instances to try and gear everyone in their raids up. We end up sharding good amounts of loot because people don't need them at the time... while others still need items from the boss that just dropped us a nexus crystal. We can farm a boss for months before seeing certain items drop (or stop dropping in some cases).

    PvP: go in, lose 10 games, get points, get epics.

    PvE: go in, beat the boss or get nothing, deal with the RNG screwing over people in your raid for the next few months, maybe you'll get your epics... eventually.

    Besides, certain classes have BETTER items for PvE from the arenas than from PvE instances. Rogues? No good off hands from Kara until BT, so S2 off hand it is. Damage casters? The S2 staff is incredibly good for PvE, and is, in fact, BETTER than the equivalent drop in PvE off of Kael'thas Sunstrider for use in PvE... the PvP weapon has 2% spell hit on it, the PvE weapon has none. Shadow priests? The S2 dagger is considered one of, if not the best DPS weapon available to them for PvE or PvP.

    In PvP, you can get something for losing 10 games a week. Period. In PvE, we have to win, or we get nothing... and then we have to hope that this boss that is dead hasn't just dropped something that is automatically getting sharded while others in the raid still need crap from them.

    We don't get shit just for showing up. We have to win, and we have to wait a week before trying again for more loot from the same bosses. PvP is where you get shit just for showing up. And the rating requirements will be a help in keeping scrubs from getting the best PvP gear available just for showing up or buying a team.

  15. #95

    Re: Again PvE items getting close to being better than PvP for PvP

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrianna
    Spoken like someone who has no idea how PvE drops work.
    PvP: go in, lose 10 games, get points, get epics.
    Thats my reply

    "Quote from: Secretive on October 05, 2007, 07:44:50 PM
    /thread right there.

    But the problem IS, without Arena I think even more PvE'ers would have quit the game long ago. This is because organized Arena team play is super fun for them and it gives them a chance to 'let off some steam' from the raiding week (God, almost sounds like a job...)

    Anyways, to the poster that says it takes 0 skill, 0 talent, 0 whatever to obtain gear such as I have, I'll say that you're completely off-base and you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

    Simply stated, here's some mathematics.

    Head - 1875
    Pants - 1875
    Chest - 1875
    Shoulders - 1500
    Gloves - 1125
    Mainhand healing mace - 3150 (Or was it 3125? Gosh, it was so long ago I can't remember...)
    Reprieve - 1125

    That's a total of 12,525 points.

    Now, a 5v5 team that loses 10 games a week, each week starting at 1500 (remaking the team or what have you) will be rated a conservative 1400 (Assuming each loss is approximately 10 points, prolly gonna be even more at 1500...) That Arena team will make 338 points a week. Let's take 12,525 and divide 338 into it. What do you get? Math saver: 37 and some change. 37 WEEKS. Approximately NINE MONTHS will be necessary to achieve what you say.

    To get full Merciless and accessories and have 'zero skill'... the only way to do this was to have saved ALL... and I mean all... of your 5,000 Arena season 1 points and rolled them into S2, then started purchasing.

    I have never found a 2000+ rated arena game to be easy. Ever. Never. Not even with a Warrior teammate (zomg, OPz0rz nerf pl0z or whatever)

    In conclusion, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, and should stop."



  16. #96

    Re: Again PvE items getting close to being better than PvP for PvP

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrianna
    Spoken like someone who has no idea how PvE drops work.

    We are not "quaranteed" (it is guaranteed, g not q) to get upgrades just from going. Thanks to the random number generator, it can take guilds months of farming instances to try and gear everyone in their raids up. We end up sharding good amounts of loot because people don't need them at the time... while others still need items from the boss that just dropped us a nexus crystal. We can farm a boss for months before seeing certain items drop (or stop dropping in some cases).

    PvP: go in, lose 10 games, get points, get epics.

    PvE: go in, beat the boss or get nothing, deal with the RNG screwing over people in your raid for the next few months, maybe you'll get your epics... eventually.

    Besides, certain classes have BETTER items for PvE from the arenas than from PvE instances. Rogues? No good off hands from Kara until BT, so S2 off hand it is. Damage casters? The S2 staff is incredibly good for PvE, and is, in fact, BETTER than the equivalent drop in PvE off of Kael'thas Sunstrider for use in PvE... the PvP weapon has 2% spell hit on it, the PvE weapon has none. Shadow priests? The S2 dagger is considered one of, if not the best DPS weapon available to them for PvE or PvP.

    In PvP, you can get something for losing 10 games a week. Period. In PvE, we have to win, or we get nothing... and then we have to hope that this boss that is dead hasn't just dropped something that is automatically getting sharded while others in the raid still need crap from them.

    We don't get shit just for showing up. We have to win, and we have to wait a week before trying again for more loot from the same bosses. PvP is where you get shit just for showing up. And the rating requirements will be a help in keeping scrubs from getting the best PvP gear available just for showing up or buying a team.
    Repeating from my previous post:

    "It should be as hard for PvE players to do PvP as it is for PvP players to do PvE."

    And when I mean hard I mean time consuming and a pain. When we talk about real skill and reflexes is where arena comes in.


  17. #97

    Re: Again PvE items getting close to being better than PvP for PvP

    Quote Originally Posted by Narzania
    Repeating from my previous post:

    "It should be as hard for PvE players to do PvP as it is for PvP players to do PvE."

    And when I mean hard I mean time consuming and a pain. When we talk about real skill and reflexes is where arena comes in.
    Great, you're trying to talk without saying anything.

    A lot of us PvErs could give two flying fucks about PvP, and wouldn't shed a tear if it was removed from the game.

    Right now, you have PvEers going into PvP just for the WEAPONS. Why? Because they're guaranteed to get them from PvP, even if they suck at PvP; and they're often BETTER than the PvE drops.

    But, we don't see PvPers deciding to go into raids for a few items, do we? No. Why? Because there is no guarantee that the items they want (the few with resilience) will drop.

    Guaranteed>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>chance.

    And, you never did refute going in and losing 10 games and still getting points. Might take you longer to get the items, but you WILL get them (and you can always remake the teams each week to have a higher rating when Monday night rolls around). Go in and lose 10 times to Illidan, hell, any raid boss, tell me how many epics you get from that.

  18. #98

    Re: Again PvE items getting close to being better than PvP for PvP

    Quote Originally Posted by Secretive
    Personal rating takes care of that point for you, Lesane. No more team buying, no more QQ. Thank God, sick of hearing about it.

    Next, you mean to tell me that there aren't some very slacking/poor playing people in topend raiding guilds? Puh-lease. Before I "quit" raiding I was just starting Hyjal and this was months ago... The guild I was in back then has killed Stormrage. In a group of 25 w/ 7 backups, at least 4 or 5 of them were not on the same level as the remainder of the group.

    And in essence, they got welfare epics. It's not as prevalent as it was back in Naxxramas days when you could have 25 people carry 15 others through the encounters, but you're completely naive if you think that there aren't some free-loaders in high-end PvE guilds clearing Black Temple.

    Further, raiding guilds sell places for people to buy loot off bosses in farm content dungeons, same deal as Arena teams right? Sure, there's much more luck involved in the drops, but the same principle exists.

    The excuse of "OMG, PvP is so easy in like a year you can have full Merciless crap" is just that, an excuse used by PvE'ers to stretch their E-Peens a bit more or make themselves feel better about spending 4-6 hours a night, 4-5 days a week in some instanced dungeon with boss encounter scripts that are meant to be defeated.

    But whatever, in S3 the rating requirements will be nice. I especially like the personal rating system... Let's hope it works out like it theoretically will.
    I've raided before TBC, I've raided after TBC. I've PVPed in the honor grind before TBC, I've PVPed in the current arena system. Where raiding got from easymode to dungeons where you actually can't afford a lot of slackers (hello almost every boss with an enrage timer) or people with crappy gear and specs like you did pre-TBC, the same can't be said for PVP. It went from an inhuman honor grind to a walk in the park where anyone with the slightest clue about PVP is able to walk out with a full set at the end of a season. I started season 2 with my level 60 warlord set and am walking out with everything you can buy from the vendor (aside from shield+1h since I find it pretty worthless to buy seeing how I barely ever use those except for spellreflect macro which can be done with any shield :P). Sure I won't say that raids have become so much harder to an extent that it is a complete slacker filter but has definately gotten harder than pre-TBC and the amount of guilds that cleared SSC and/or TK is nowhere close to the number of people that cleared BWL, let alone MC (which dungeon should I compare them to? It's nowhere as easy as MC but do you see any other entry level 25 man raid comparable to MC of vanilla WoW?) back in the days. A lot of servers haven't even got guilds that are attuned to Hyjal yet, hell if you check bosskillers.com or something and look for the latest kills for some random SSC bosses you will see that some of them are even server 1st's. So yeah, it takes a year to get a season 2 set if you're terribad, but so far TBC has been out for 9 months already as well, and still a load of people (and even realms) haven't progressed anywhere beyond karazhan and gruul's lair, which has loot equivalent to season 1 gear which will soon be buyable from honor vendors, so that every guy who is watching TV and occasionally takes the effort to press his spacebar key in AV will be decked out in that set as well. So yeah, on some realms you can buy loot from guilds, but if some realms haven't even progressed past karazhan then that seems very unlikely, while I'm sure that every self-respecting realm has at least one 2k+ team in any of the brackets.

    To me there is simply no way of denying that getting PVP epics requires a lot less effort, and most of all, time to achieve. You only HAVE to play 10 games a week to get points, takes maybe 2 hours per week at most to get top of the line epics (for PVP purposes, ofc for PVE they're useless aside from the weapons). I've done both raiding and PVP, before TBC and after TBC. Molten Core raids was easier than this, but required more effort and time in general, and this is also while talking about getting the set from a good team and not at a snail pace, because if you don't care about how long it takes you to get the set there is nothing easier than getting a full set from the arena, simple as that.

    Also I fail to see how personal rating will fix anything. The only difference it makes is that you can't buy shoulders and weapons if you suck. So what, just buy the season 2 version which will only be slightly worse but good enough.

    Note: I'm talking about acquiring loot only, sure at 2k+ rating in certain battlegroups you will be facing teams equal in difficulty of a black temple encounter, but the thing is that even if they show you ever corner of the arena, you will still get your loot.

    And honestly, to the one who says you need 0 skill? Well let me ask you a question which will also answer your really conclusion: Do you think that fighting an NPC/Boss/Mob which has been created by Human beings is harder to beat compared to beating a human being himself?
    Who says you need to beat anything? In PVP you will get your items sooner or later even if you beat no one, that was the whole point. Just because it will take you 9 months doesn't mean it's hard, it just means it's gonna take a while... playing 10 games a week is anything but hard. And seeing how the average players in WoW are mediocre at best, beating a scripted mob that is scripted by a human but also has millions of health, hits for obscene amounts of damage, is aided by adds and goes berserk after 10 minutes, they can indeed be a lot friggin harder than beating the average joe in PVP. Hell, in some cases it's even a lot harder than beating a top of the line PVPer, if you have the gear/class setup or other factors in your favor, since there is no way in hell you can tell me PVP comes down to skill only.

    True.

    I also wish PvP guilds could be viable. I am currently in a PvP guild and it is useless. And how would PvP guilds be viable?

    Instead of making 2v2-5v5 Arena teams make larger Arena environments with 15+ people where more should participate. I believe that through this way PvP guilds will be much more viable.

    It could be something which is very similar to WSG or even WSG it self but in Arena terms meaning that the winner is the one who either 1) Scores 1 flag (not 3 but one) or 2) The team who kills the other one first (whichever of the two comes first)
    There's other PVP content than just arena in the game you know. What do you think the PVP guilds before TBC used to do? I've seen many PVP guilds before TBC and they have contained some of the most skilled players I have personally seen ingame, and the majority of them were rank 12-13 or better, it went as far as saying that pretty much no one in the guild had a character ranked below 10. And this was before the honor grind got 'easier' (which just meant it from 40 year old basement guy level to an unemployed guy level).

  19. #99

    Re: Again PvE items getting close to being better than PvP for PvP

    To some guy I read a couple posts up - there will be no T7.

  20. #100

    Re: Again PvE items getting close to being better than PvP for PvP

    Haha wrong Over =) go retrace the posts, they specifically mention Tier 7 in regards to the "next instance after Black Temple", which we later discovered to be Sunwell Plateau
    9/11/08 - Priests will never forgive, and never forget.

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