Again PvE items getting close to being better than PvP for PvP

[Narzania]

As I read on the 2.2 notes the TK and SSC weapons are getting upgrades.....

Well I must say the following:

1) Why then not upgrading Arena weapons too?

2) Why then do you have to place rating requirement to get Best Arena weapons...some teams may NEVER get them with rating requirement of 1.9k. In PvE you are quaranteed to get it sometime as your gear improves because it improves relative to the mobs you fight and not relative to the other players you fight who, in turn, improve at the same pace as you (or faster) which makes no difference in real terms.

3) Why do PvP players who have BS craftet weapons have to do PvE to get the Vortexes to upgrade their weapon?

4) Why best accessories (rings, Trinkets etc) can be obtained though PvE and not PvP? What Trinket we got for PvP? The medallion? The Healing one?Where are the dps Trinkets?

5) Warriors are usually targetted last in Arenas, therefore making high end PVE items (Upgraded weapons + Trinkets + DPS rings etc) their dps insane in Arenas...as last targets who cares abt resilience if all players are already dead in your team?

[AngryGerbil]

1) Where exactly did you find this information, I have yet to see an upgrade unless I'm very tired.

2) If the PvE'rs have to actually, ya know, use skill to progress to get the best weapons, no reason the PvP'rs can't just suck for 5 weeks and get some epic refrigerator to swing.

3)Because if undead mages dropped vortex's there would be no one in pve

4)Your gear is for dps, pvp is meant to be about survival, thats why resilience came out.

5)Maybe you should try focusing the warrior instead of letting him run willy nilly on your team, just a thought though

[Freeztah]

This post actually made me create an account..

1) Why then not upgrading Arena weapons too
I think this was made because the current arena weapons are better than the by you mentioned arena weapons. Actually alot of people in my guild have been pointed at for not getting the PvP weapons and going with ssc/tk weapons instead. Remember that there are very very few, less than 1% that even have a chance to get PvE-weapons. Also this is not a problem, I cannot see any high rated team that use PvE-gear instead of PvP gear.


2) Why then do you have to place rating requirement to get Best Arena weapons...some teams may NEVER get them with rating requirement of 1.9k. In PvE you are quaranteed to get it sometime as your gear improves because it improves relative to the mobs you fight and not relative to the other players you fight who, in turn, improve at the same pace as you (or faster) which makes no difference in real terms.
Have you ever PvE:ed? If a player are not able to get 1900 rating in arena after som farming of gear, he is never ever going to be able to get these weapons from PvE, really, he wont. Now remember that you are comparing T5 weapons/gear with S2 weapons/gear, which is absolutely right. Actually, I raid almost always 5 days a week on my warrior, I am in the best PvE-guild on my server and we just killed our first BT-bosses. I have 3/5 tier 5. Also, I have an alt priest, that I sometimes do some arena on, like 10 matches a week tops, some weeks not at all, and with battlegrounds I may have played PvP on him the same time that I raid in one week. On that priest I have some Honor epics, full arena S2 set and almost S2 weapon. It's easy as hell, yeah really, easy as hell to get the PvP stuff. And I have though 5 days a week since TBC release to get those 3 T5. And no, we do not suck, we are the best alliance PvE-guild on the server. There are tons of full S2/weps on the server.. Something needed to be done.


3) Why do PvP players who have BS craftet weapons have to do PvE to get the Vortexes to upgrade their weapon?
You don't have to, you can buy the PvP weapons. Noone forces you to get PvE-weapons/proffession.

4) Why best accessories (rings, Trinkets etc) can be obtained though PvE and not PvP? What Trinket we got for PvP? The medallion? The Healing one?Where are the dps Trinkets?
There are 2 trinkets that blizzard thinks are the best ones for PvP, here you may disagree, and rightly so, they should add some dps-trinket with resilience on.

5) Warriors are usually targetted last in Arenas, therefore making high end PVE items (Upgraded weapons + Trinkets + DPS rings etc) their dps insane in Arenas...as last targets who cares abt resilience if all players are already dead in your team?
In my opinion this is more of an arena gear/warrior class issue to be honest. Remember that blizzard thinks that arena S2 for warriors are better for PvP than BT gear. The problem is just as you say, warriors don't need resilience/stamina too much. But again, It's blizzard failing to balance the class/gear for PvP, not BT gear that are too good.

[frosty]

some merciless gladiator gear is also being improved too

[frosty]

2) Why then do you have to place rating requirement to get Best Arena weapons...some teams may NEVER get them with rating requirement of 1.9k. In PvE you are quaranteed to get it sometime as your gear improves because it improves relative to the mobs you fight and not relative to the other players you fight who, in turn, improve at the same pace as you (or faster) which makes no difference in real terms.

you either chose to be a pve'er or a pvper, or both but not be the best... imo i think 1.9k rating is too low as a requirement for the best pvp weapon

[AngryGerbil]

1) Where exactly did you find this information, I have yet to see an upgrade unless I'm very tired.

Turns out I was just tired, gg for forum trolling as you wake up, but the argument still stands that pve'rs put countless hours into attempting and wiping to new content while someone else plays the arena for an hour each week and comes out with a weapon even better with a fraction of the effort or time.

[dantekk]

I'm in the same situation as Freeztah, and yes, takes a lot of skill to get that S2 (ehm, no, it's not, I was teasing, I've seen warriors with at least S2 shoulders that actually don't hamstring you, but Hell, what do I know, I'm just a mindless pve'er grinding Hyjal and BT and stuff -_-).

[Magentard]

What is retarded is the The Vashj bow being equal to the supremus bow...WTF?

[Nero Duskwind]

As I read on the 2.2 notes the TK and SSC weapons are getting upgrades.....

Well I must say the following:

1) Why then not upgrading Arena weapons too?

2) Why then do you have to place rating requirement to get Best Arena weapons...some teams may NEVER get them with rating requirement of 1.9k. In PvE you are quaranteed to get it sometime as your gear improves because it improves relative to the mobs you fight and not relative to the other players you fight who, in turn, improve at the same pace as you (or faster) which makes no difference in real terms.

3) Why do PvP players who have BS craftet weapons have to do PvE to get the Vortexes to upgrade their weapon?

4) Why best accessories (rings, Trinkets etc) can be obtained though PvE and not PvP? What Trinket we got for PvP? The medallion? The Healing one?Where are the dps Trinkets?

5) Warriors are usually targetted last in Arenas, therefore making high end PVE items (Upgraded weapons + Trinkets + DPS rings etc) their dps insane in Arenas...as last targets who cares abt resilience if all players are already dead in your team?

1) SSC/TK items got a mild buff because PvErs were jumping into Arena for the sole purpose of farming arena points to grab their weapons and bail.  This was also part of the reasoning behind implementing rating requirements on Arena weapons when Season 3 hit.  Buffing Season 2 weapons defeats the whole purpose of re-encouraging PvErs to chase PVE weapons.  Besides, the buffs weren't significant, only mild enough to be comparable to Arena: Season 2.

2) See #1 for part of the answer.  Also, you're taking 1900 as the end-all rating.  You conveniently forget that the Devs haven't decided completely on the final rating requirements.  For all we know, armor may get the rating requirements too and they could be staggered progressively to encourage gladiators to work their way up the ranks.

As for the rest, I'm not going to bother formulating a reply to, as it's become clear that this is nothing more than a personal whine-fest about PvP vs PvE. 

If you can't understand the importance of resilience and its mechanics, then it's pretty obvious why you're crying about being unable to reach a possible 1900 rating to grab the gear you covet next season.

[Lesane]

1) Because the arena weapons are good enough already (unlike the weapons which you were talking about, they were underpowered considering the places they dropped from imho)? Besides that, Blizzard designs new seasons for upgrading arena gear, if they would upgrade the season 2 weapons right now, there would be very little room for making season 3 weapons better than the season 2 counterparts without making them totally imbalanced for PVE, which would only flip the problem around in a more extreme way. For example right now the 1 handers have 97.5 DPS, the best 1h's in BT/Hyjal, excluding illidan have 100 DPS, how do you want to buff them, especially with the thought of season 3 coming soon it's close to impossible to buff the arena weapons even more right now.

2) A rating requirement of 1.9k is nothing, you can reach that even with a terrible setup. Your argument really doesn't make sense, some teams may NEVER get to see the best PVP weapons because of the rating requirement? Maybe because they simply suck too much for them? (Maybe if they will put a 2.3k rating requirement I would agree with you but 1.9k is nothing) This is like Karazhan raiders complaining how they might NEVER get BT/Hyjal weapons. In order to get better items you need to get better as a player, simple as that (and yes, part of becoming better also involves gearing up, however gearing up doesn't mean going from quest rewards straight to the best items ingame, you do it in a ladder of progression). Also your comparison between PVE mobs and PVP players makes little sense as well. Ok so as you gear up you improve compared to the mob you were fighting, no shit, ofcourse if you have SSC gear you're gonna kill Malchezaar a lot easier than in blues, but the point is that there are stronger mobs than him to fight, which is usually what you aim for once your gear improved to that level. In case you'd like to only fight the same mob over and over again your statement is true, but 99% of the time this won't be the case. On a different note though, you can still buy season 2 weapons which are just a little bit worse than 'the best PVP weapons' as you call it, even if you have terrible ratings. The rating requirement on weapons only makes PVP loot progression a bit more in line with PVE loot progression, otherwise they could just hand out illidan loot if you wipe enough times on attumen, it wouldn't make sense, so that's why they changed it.

3) Why do rogues have to PVP to get a decent offhand for PVE? (FACT: There are no good offhand swords, daggers or maces past 5 mans until Black Temple or Hyjal, the only exception being the fist offhand from Al'ar which is worse than the season 2 offhands) It's the same problem. No one forces you to upgrade your crafted items, Blizzard put PVP weapons purchasable for PVP points on vendors for a reason. You can perfectly achieve high ratings with a simple weapon as the T1 or T2 blacksmith weapons until you have enough points for an arena weapon which is just as good if not better than the best loot before black temple and hyjal.

4) One of your slots is always gonna be occupied with the PVP trinket anyway. The PVP itemization for the remaining slot is scarce yes, but you can easily run some heroics for a very solid trinket. Hell, for some classes you could even decide to raid certain level 60 raid dungeons for certain trinkets which are better in PVP than the newer ones.

5) And you know why they are targetted last? Because they are hard to burst down for non-4 DPS teams and if you fail to bring him down you just wasted a lot of time and resources on your failure of an attempt and you just gave him a full rage bar to return the favor to you. You know what happens when you wear PVE gear? The "hard to burst down" aspect of your warrior will be gone and he will become the weakest link in your setup, because he is too easy to burst down and will be forced to play defensively all the time in order to survive, if he manages to survive in the first place. I don't really see the problem. My warrior has NEVER set foot in a single raid instance (not even karazhan) after the release of TBC and I have like 1700 unbuffed AP, 30%+ crit in battle stance in my PVP gear, along with 300+ resilience and about 12k unbuffed HP, and enough hit for a 2 hander to make it never miss on target's with no extra defense or talents that decreases my chance to hit.


I really think there is nothing wrong with the current itemization, if anything, the arena gear is too easy to get. Certain PVE'rs have to do arena's in order to have the 'best' PVE gear, and certain PVP'rs have to do PVE in order to have the 'best' PVP gear. But in the end it's pretty balanced in my opinion, only a small group of players has access to the weapons which outperform the PVP weapons even in PVP, which only drop in Hyjal/BT and with season 3 you will be able to get equal items to those.

[Secretive]

The only thing I have to add to this thread is that not all battlegroups are created equal in the slightest.

1900 on the Shadowburn battlegroup is a cakewalk, 1900 on my battlegroup is like sucking a golfball through a waterhose.

[Lesane]

The only thing I have to add to this thread is that not all battlegroups are created equal in the slightest.

1900 on the Shadowburn battlegroup is a cakewalk, 1900 on my battlegroup is like sucking a golfball through a waterhose.

It should be like it is on your battlegroup. The best weapons are only for the best PVP'ers, just like the best PVE weapons are only for the best PVE'ers. Ultimately the rating requirement would vary on battlegroup because you are right that the difficulty of reaching a specific rating depends on battlegroup as well, but I doubt we'll see that happen :P

[heavytwenty]

OP is an idiot.

[SoC]

In the Blutdurst (EU) Realmpool we became rival with a rating of 1746 (our place was 1,042 out of about 12,000 - 13,000 3v3-Teams).

So belonging to the top 10% (or closer to the top 7%) 3v3-Players of the realm pool is not good enough be allowed to purchase a PVP weapon.

Great, really great

[ndrew]

PVP weapons shouldn't EVER be better than PVE weapons.

I'm doing 10 games per week on my alt. Pretty soon I will have enough for epic gear. 1 hour of playtime per week=epics?

Then on my main, I raid, I have to spend gold on repair bills, consumables, ect. Raids last for 3-4 hours.
PVE gear and weapons should be far superior than anything PVP has to offer.

However, I do acknowledge that high ranked arena teams do have incredible competition. And they probably put more time in than 10 games per week. I have no problem allowing good PVPers to get good weapons. It just annoys me when a total nub, or someone's third alt can get epic gear comparable to tier 5 when they hardly put anytime into getting it.

[Cynadra]

Herm, sad that WoW is a PvE based game and all you 'hardcore' PvP'rs bitch when they do somthing that might make them a tit bit stronger in arena than you.

The reason all the weapons got upgraded are due to the fact that PvP weapon's where to strong.

You have to PvE to upgrade weapons because... where else would you get them? A vendor for 1g? Yeah, that makes them hard to get.

[wastedyouth]

PVP weapons shouldn't EVER be better than PVE weapons.

qft
you even got res added to pvp sets to stop pve'rs using their gear in pvp. If you wanan whine, ask why you dont lost dura from pvping.

[Secretive]

I know how to solve this... Make weapons available only to players with Arena ratings that are over 2050 in 2v2, 2000 in 3v3, 1950 in 5v5 with over 30% total played season games.

2000 is a mostly exclusive rating in my experience. There will be few "third alts" in these ratings.

Eh, just an idea.

And I do lose durability during a night of Arena matches. Just as much as during a night of raiding without wiping. :P

[Devro]

Just as much as during a night of raiding without wiping. :P

Not if you're a tank. 1-4g repair bill from start of Kara through Moroes without dying. Now think of later instances. Even if you don't die in an entire SSC run, your repair bill is more than someone who PVPs for several days (ammunition not taken into account). Oh yeah, don't forget consumables used too.

[ndrew]

And I do lose durability during a night of Arena matches. Just as much as during a night of raiding without wiping. Tongue

I disagree. The odds that you will die in a PVE raid are pretty high. Wiping =/= dying.

Even the most seasoned Black Temple guild has deaths in Karazhan. Sometimes is unavoidable.

One death in any type of blue+ gear in PVE costs more than a nights worth of PVP.