Again PvE items getting close to being better than PvP for PvP

[overneathe]

Haha wrong Over =) go retrace the posts, they specifically mention Tier 7 in regards to the "next instance after Black Temple", which we later discovered to be Sunwell Plateau

Haha wrong Shadow =) go retrace the posts, they specifically said above Tier 6 in regards to the "next instance after Black Temple", which we later discovered to be Sunwell Plateau.
No one ever said Tier7. :]

[Narzania]

Haha wrong Shadow =) go retrace the posts, they specifically said above Tier 6 in regards to the "next instance after Black Temple", which we later discovered to be Sunwell Plateau.
No one ever said Tier7. :]

True

[Narzania]

Great, you're trying to talk without saying anything.

A lot of us PvErs could give two flying fucks about PvP, and wouldn't shed a tear if it was removed from the game.

Right now, you have PvEers going into PvP just for the WEAPONS. Why? Because they're guaranteed to get them from PvP, even if they suck at PvP; and they're often BETTER than the PvE drops.

But, we don't see PvPers deciding to go into raids for a few items, do we? No. Why? Because there is no guarantee that the items they want (the few with resilience) will drop.

Guaranteed>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>chance.

In PvE you are not guaranteed? Man, you know what the difference is- SIMPLY: In PvP YOU KNOW when you will get the item 100% guaranteed but in PVE YOU DONT KNOW when you will get it but its still 100% guaranteed you will get it. YOU KNOW WHY? Assume that a weapon has 10% probability of dropping, then you are GUARANTEED to get it within 10 runs but you may get it the 5th run, the 9th run you dont know when...When you expect that you get something and it doesnt drop this is what it dissapoints you. In PvP you dont have this expectation.

And, you never did refute going in and losing 10 games and still getting points. Might take you longer to get the items, but you WILL get them (and you can always remake the teams each week to have a higher rating when Monday night rolls around). Go in and lose 10 times to Illidan, hell, any raid boss, tell me how many epics you get from that.

And you get Rep for PvE..

[Chrianna]

In PvE you are not guaranteed? Man, you know what the difference is- SIMPLY: In PvP YOU KNOW when you will get the weapon 100% guaranteed but in PVE YOU DONT KNOW when you will get it but its still 100% guaranteed. YOU KNOW WHY? Assume that a weapon has 10% probability of dropping, then you are GUARANTEED to get it within 10 runs but you may get it the 5th run, the 9th run you dont know when...When you expect that you get something and it doesnt drop this is what it dissapoints you. In PvP you dont have this expectation.

Ok, I see your problem here... you think that each time you run something, the chance it will drop is cumulative. It isn't.

An item's drop percentage is counted for that kill and that kill alone. Each and every time you kill a mob/boss is INDEPENDENT of every other time that you have killed them, and has no bearing on any future kills you may do on that mob/boss.

In simpler terms, each and every time you kill the mob with a 10% drop rate on an item you want, there is a 10% chance it will drop, and a 90% chance it won't. Last time you killed it, it only had a 10% chance to drop. Next time you kill it, it only has a 10% chance to drop, not 20%, not 30%, not anything but 10%.

So, since item X only has a 10% chance to drop each time boss Y is killed, and each kill is independent of any other kills, no, getting item X is NOT 100% guaranteed. Each time you kill boss Y, item X has a 90% chance to not drop, and a 10% chance to drop.

When you learn that the drop rates are not cumulative depending on how many times a mob or boss has been killed, maybe you'll understand the meaning of the word chance.

And you get Rep for PvE..

Because rep items give you entire sets of gear and every rep has gear and items useful to every class.

Oh, wait...

Now, I have to ask... did you buy your account? Because it seems you don't know shit about how this game works, since you think the drop rates are cumulative, and that rep items end up giving you items and sets of armor on par with T5 and soon to be T6 items.

Quit trying to argue about shit you have no clue about.

PvP=guaranteed items, just depending on time.

PvE=no guarantee for items.

[Kofola]

YOU KNOW WHY? Assume that a weapon has 10% probability of dropping, then you are GUARANTEED to get it within 10 runs ..

Pleeeease. That is really NOT true. Let's talk about a thingie called statistic before you write again somethink like that. It simply does not work that way .. sorry

10% does not mean that in 10 runs you have guaranteed (lol) drop, it just seas that APROXIMITLY in 10 runs drops one.

It does not work that as if it haven't droped ones, next time it'll drop with 20%.

Just for the info for 10% drop chance:

runs probability
1 10%
2 18%
3 24%
4 29%
5 33%
6 35%
7 37%
8 38%
9 39%
10 39% (hmmmm ... )

EDIT: Damm Chrianna beat me to it . As was sead each boss kill is independent event.

[Chrianna]

Pleeeease. That is really NOT true. Let's talk about a thingie called statistic before you write again somethink like that. It simply does not work that way .. sorry

10% does not mean that in 10 runs you have guaranteed (lol) drop, it just seas that APROXIMITLY in 10 runs drops one.

It does not work that as if it haven't droped ones, next time it'll drop with 20%.

Just for the info for 10% drop chance:

runs probability
1 10%
2 18%
3 24%
4 29%
5 33%
6 35%
7 37%
8 38%
9 39%
10 39% (hmmmm ... )

EDIT: Damm Chrianna beat me to it

Now, what you say is true of each individual person's chance of seeing an item. The more you run a place and kill a boss, the better the chance of seeing the item (to a point, then each successive time has a smaller and smaller chance of letting you see the item).

Hell, I ran UD Strat back on my druid at 60 for a year and a half waiting for those damn WH pants to drop. 12%-14% drop rate. According to retardo up there, I should have seen them by run 10, at the latest. I stopped counting 3 months in and at around 120 runs. By the time they dropped I had better.

Hell, I just had Quagmirran's Eye drop for the first time tonight (and lost it... grumble, would replace my last green...), and out of 170 heroic badges, over half of them are from running heroic SP. So, 3 badges per run... we'll say 87 of them are from heroic SP (gives me just over half the total badges, and is evenly divisible by 3)... 29 runs, with a 5.83% chance to drop. According to retardo, I should have seen it by run 20.

Like I said, each and every kill is independent of all other kills by you. If he wants to be retarded and think otherwise, he can, butt the truth shows him to be a moron.

[Narzania]

Ok, I see your problem here... you think that each time you run something, the chance it will drop is cumulative. It isn't.

An item's drop percentage is counted for that kill and that kill alone. Each and every time you kill a mob/boss is INDEPENDENT of every other time that you have killed them, and has no bearing on any future kills you may do on that mob/boss.

In simpler terms, each and every time you kill the mob with a 10% drop rate on an item you want, there is a 10% chance it will drop, and a 90% chance it won't. Last time you killed it, it only had a 10% chance to drop. Next time you kill it, it only has a 10% chance to drop, not 20%, not 30%, not anything but 10%.

So, since item X only has a 10% chance to drop each time boss Y is killed, and each kill is independent of any other kills, no, getting item X is NOT 100% guaranteed. Each time you kill boss Y, item X has a 90% chance to not drop, and a 10% chance to drop.

When you learn that the drop rates are not cumulative depending on how many times a mob or boss has been killed, maybe you'll understand the meaning of the word chance.

Because rep items give you entire sets of gear and every rep has gear and items useful to every class.

Oh, wait...

Now, I have to ask... did you buy your account? Because it seems you don't know shit about how this game works, since you think the drop rates are cumulative, and that rep items end up giving you items and sets of armor on par with T5 and soon to be T6 items.

Quit trying to argue about shit you have no clue about.

PvP=guaranteed items, just depending on time.

PvE=no guarantee for items.

Dont try to prove to me how insanelly hard is to get a PvE item. As for rep rewards no I cant compare them to t5 BUT there are still rewards YOU are guaranteed to get!

You still didnt answer the issue raised earlier why not make PvErs access on PvP rewards as hard as PvPrs access on PvE rewards. You got a DEFINITE advantage there you got my point? You are FAR more advantageous than us.

[Eetabeetay]

Do you think that fighting an NPC/Boss/Mob which has been created by Human beings is harder to beat compared to beating a human being himself?

The thing is, you dont even have to beat any opponents to get pvp gear. You just have to be in the BG to get honor, or be close to an opponent getting killed to get an HK. In PvE it takes 25 ppl to kill one thing, a lot of times in pvp you run around in a group and gank the 1-2 people protecting a node.

[Kofola]

@Chrianna:

True ... it was ofcourse an example of chance of seeing the item (it has it's flaws). I admit that example is not the best but as demonstration it could work. Now let's consider that there are other 4 players in raid that want that item as bad as you

[Narzania]

According to retardo up there, I should have seen them by run 10, at the latest. I stopped counting 3 months in and at around 120 runs. By the time they dropped I had better.
Like I said, each and every kill is independent of all other kills by you. If he wants to be retarded and think otherwise, he can, butt the truth shows him to be a moron.

Shut TFU!! You play it smart ass by provoking people with your rude words. Dont fucking post here anymore!! My post really hurt you it seems go cry to your mum.

And Miss Chrianna..you are one of the smart ass who pretend to be ladies in the game lets see how you will expose yourself with the new Voice Chat!

btw Blizz is recruiting ppl you know so you can run some simulations for them if you got nothing better do do in your life.

[Chrianna]

Dont try to prove to me how insanelly hard is to get a PvE item. As for rep rewards no I cant compare them to t5 BUT there are still rewards YOU are guaranteed to get!

Last I checked, you didn't stop getting rep just for being a PvPer. You can get the rep just as easily as anyone else. So, wow, looks like they are rewards YOU are guaranteed to get, as well! Provided you put in the minimal time it takes to get the rep (and some reps you can buy your way to exalted to).

You still didnt answer the issue raised earlier why not make PvErs access on PvP rewards as hard as PvPrs access on PvE rewards. You got a DEFINITE advantage there you got my point? You are FAR more advantageous than us.

You want PvEers to have a harder time in arenas? Fine. I could care less about WoW's unbalanced and craptacular PvP. Besides, they already are at a disadvantage to the PvPers... they lack that little stat called resilience. They also, generally, have less health than the PvPers in PvP gear. Looks like you already got your wish, retard.

[Chrianna]

@Chrianna:

True ... it was ofcourse an example of chance of seeing the item (it has it's flaws). I admit that example is not the best but as demonstration it could work. Now let's consider that there are other 4 players in raid that want that item as bad as you

In 25 mans, that wouldn't be a big stretch. Damage casters should figure on at least having 2 mages, 2 warlocks, and 2 shadow priests, and maybe a balance druid and elemental shaman for competition. Potentially 8 people all wanting the same item the first time it drops (talking more weapon/trinket here, armor is generally slightly less competition).

The chance to get the item begins to significantly drop the more people are competing for it.

[Chrianna]

Shut TFU!! You play it smart ass by provoking people with your rude words.

Then don't give me the opportunity to use smart words by being such a dumbass. You were wrong, plain and simple.

Dont fucking post here anymore!! My post really hurt you it seems go cry to your mum.

QQ more. You're the one getting bent out of shape, so, I think you have us mixed up, kid.

And Miss Chrianna..you are one of the smart ass who pretend to be ladies in the game lets see how you will expose yourself with the new Voice Chat!

I've been using Ventrillo and Teamspeak for well over a year, thanks, my guilds know what gender I am. The new voice chat blows, anyway. Can't hear people, at all. We'll be sticking with Vent and TS.

btw Blizz is recruiting ppl you know so you can run some simulations for them if you got nothing better do do in your life.

I'd try to say something witty here... but, the complete lack of comprehensible typing you did makes anything I say not nearly as funny as what you wrote.

[Chrianna]

The thing is, you dont even have to beat any opponents to get pvp gear. You just have to be in the BG to get honor, or be close to an opponent getting killed to get an HK. In PvE it takes 25 ppl to kill one thing, a lot of times in pvp you run around in a group and gank the 1-2 people protecting a node.

He is talking more arenas than BGs, though.

Not that it's any harder to get points in the arena system. If you win, you get more points at the end of the week. If you lose, you get less points. But, no matter if you win or lose, you get points.

[Shadowclaimer]

aha wrong Shadow =) go retrace the posts, they specifically said above Tier 6 in regards to the "next instance after Black Temple", which we later discovered to be Sunwell Plateau.
No one ever said Tier7. :]

Touche

As for that one guy who can't seem to speak English and has nothing constructive to say and is convinced drop rates are additive, go back to the General WoW boards, we don't like your trollish kind here.

[Nero Duskwind]

Narzania, please go cancel your account and promptly drink a glass of bleach.

If I could, I'd file a lawsuit against you for all the brain cells I lost reading your verbal diarrhea.

[dtangel]

Honestly...I find this issue almost moronic. If PVP epics are so easy to get....why don't more PVE people go for them? If you're complaining they are soo much better and so much easier to get, just save your DKP's and do some arenas. After all, like you stated, it's just 10 arenas a week...it takes little time, so....find the time and do it!
Some will say "but I don't want to do PVP! I'm a PVE person!", but hey...I never wanted to grind for repairs or grind for mats to create flasks/pots either, yet I had to do it.
I guess it's standard, for every one person that cries for a buff, 10 more cry for a nerf somewhere. Instead of requesting for more token item drops(to minimize randomness) in instances and bosses dropping more items(as I think has already been implemented in SSC/TK (?)) you instead ask for a nerf to PVP.
I actually understand a bit how some of you feel. I raided Molten Core ---> Naxrammas, doing raids almost everyday for god knows how long. On my server, hordeside anyway I was the only person in the entire server to have a "Sharpened Silithid Femur", and...yes, it did feel quite well for my ego.But that gave me no right to demand that there would be no better PVP weapon just so I could sit on top of the "food chain".
Unfortunately, now I stopped having time to raid, so I gathered my Karazhan gear, bought the S2 caster sword(because as luck would have it....in all this time I never saw anything better than a blue 70 caster weapon) and I'm working on arenas on my free time, as it requires less coordination amongst ppl.Getting 25 ppl together or getting 3,5..is a lot diferent. And that's what the arenas allow, progression without having necessarily to join a raiding guild. I might even suck at PVP, but slowly...I'll get my progression, based on my skill and hability, the same as a PVE group. After all...seriously....if in 10 months of raiding you don't get more than 8 pieces of gear(someone already did the math about this some posts ago), you should seriously consider quit raiding, or quiting WOW alltogether.

This new 2000 / 1850 requirement on items also does little. From what I can remember arena seasons aren't much bigger than 6 months.In 6 months with average rating (around 1500's), you'll probably get 5 pieces.Since a new season removes the requirements on the old season gear, all it means is you can only buy your shoulders after having spent the time to get the other pieces.I have no problem with that, it just means the shoulders are the last piece of gear I'll buy each season, compared to the "leet" players who can buy them right away and flex they e-peen from the start of the season.

Bottom line, comparing PVE and PVP is stupid, because one is static and with enough preservance you will eventually get the boss down, while in PVP you can work your ass off and you'll still not hit the 2k rating required no matter how long you try. One way of making it fair, though, make Raid bosses gain points from each player he kills. Then at the start of the week, they buy new gear based on the points they won. That way, the dificulty of doing arenas will be comparable to PVE.(It sounds ridiculous,no? That's because it's like comparing apples and oranges).

[Secretive]

Well, said, dtangel.

For a first post, that was amazing. A lot of people around here could learn from you.

[Shadowclaimer]

Honestly...I find this issue almost moronic. If PVP epics are so easy to get....why don't more PVE people go for them? If you're complaining they are soo much better and so much easier to get, just save your DKP's and do some arenas. After all, like you stated, it's just 10 arenas a week...it takes little time, so....find the time and do it!
Some will say "but I don't want to do PVP! I'm a PVE person!", but hey...I never wanted to grind for repairs or grind for mats to create flasks/pots either, yet I had to do it.
I guess it's standard, for every one person that cries for a buff, 10 more cry for a nerf somewhere. Instead of requesting for more token item drops(to minimize randomness) in instances and bosses dropping more items(as I think has already been implemented in SSC/TK (?)) you instead ask for a nerf to PVP.
I actually understand a bit how some of you feel. I raided Molten Core ---> Naxrammas, doing raids almost everyday for god knows how long. On my server, hordeside anyway I was the only person in the entire server to have a "Sharpened Silithid Femur", and...yes, it did feel quite well for my ego.But that gave me no right to demand that there would be no better PVP weapon just so I could sit on top of the "food chain".
Unfortunately, now I stopped having time to raid, so I gathered my Karazhan gear, bought the S2 caster sword(because as luck would have it....in all this time I never saw anything better than a blue 70 caster weapon) and I'm working on arenas on my free time, as it requires less coordination amongst ppl.Getting 25 ppl together or getting 3,5..is a lot diferent. And that's what the arenas allow, progression without having necessarily to join a raiding guild. I might even suck at PVP, but slowly...I'll get my progression, based on my skill and hability, the same as a PVE group. After all...seriously....if in 10 months of raiding you don't get more than 8 pieces of gear(someone already did the math about this some posts ago), you should seriously consider quit raiding, or quiting WOW alltogether.

This new 2000 / 1850 requirement on items also does little. From what I can remember arena seasons aren't much bigger than 6 months.In 6 months with average rating (around 1500's), you'll probably get 5 pieces.Since a new season removes the requirements on the old season gear, all it means is you can only buy your shoulders after having spent the time to get the other pieces.I have no problem with that, it just means the shoulders are the last piece of gear I'll buy each season, compared to the "leet" players who can buy them right away and flex they e-peen from the start of the season.

Bottom line, comparing PVE and PVP is stupid, because one is static and with enough preservance you will eventually get the boss down, while in PVP you can work your ass off and you'll still not hit the 2k rating required no matter how long you try. One way of making it fair, though, make Raid bosses gain points from each player he kills. Then at the start of the week, they buy new gear based on the points they won. That way, the dificulty of doing arenas will be comparable to PVE.(It sounds ridiculous,no? That's because it's like comparing apples and oranges).

Why don't more PvEers go get them? Have you not looked around Shattrath? I bet about 70% of 70's have at least one piece of their season gear, and I've noticed this from all 3 servers I play on.

[Eetabeetay]

After all...seriously....if in 10 months of raiding you don't get more than 8 pieces of gear(someone already did the math about this some posts ago), you should seriously consider quit raiding, or quiting WOW alltogether.

Raiding isn't about the gear. The gear is only there to serve as a slowing agent so that guilds don't blow through all the content in the game in 1 month. Honestly i could care less if i get 0 ups from now till the last boss of sunwell plateau, as long as i'm geared enough to do whatever encounter my guild is working on.