Again PvE items getting close to being better than PvP for PvP

[Narzania]

well i dont know if i would go full armor pen, however if cataclysm's edge were available to me i would use that over s3, not just because i would be 5/5 this week but because of the armor pen. same things with rings or trinkets or even belt/bracers w/e. having 330 or 350 resil as a warrior vs 400 is not going to make a huge difference, especially when you bring your static armor pen above 1k, and close to 2k with executioner.

2k nearly covers all cloth even with buffs, and cuts rogues and druids in half. i don't see it making a huge difference for warriors tho :/
to me 1-2% damage is not the same as 5% crit damage and 2.5% crit rate. to me the veng warrior should win. do you have a link to those duels?

Ah also DONT forget that PvE gear also has loads of +hit which you missing

[Azain]

Ah also DONT forget that PvE gear also has loads of +hit which you missing

+hit doesn't matter past 5% which i imagine the s3 guy would have.

to me the gear favors the following:

pve - more +hit, more armor pen, more str,
pvp - more +crit, more stam, more resil

the pvp'er should be critting more often and for much more, with a lot more stam, the pve'er should be doing more damage per hit, but never per crit. and i just can't imagine how toe to toe pve wins, perhaps instead of a duel if they just auto-attacked or something, ignore the skill aspect of it :/ perhaps the pvp'er is just being outplayed?

[Lesane]

I have no idea why all these warriors here are crying about hit rating? A full PVP set gives almost the 79 you should aim for (getting more just because SOME classes sometimes take a talent which increases your chance to miss further is stupid), it's not hard to throw a 8 hit gem into a yellow slot. Be glad you have only 5% chance to miss and be even more glad that the biggest part of those 5% are covered by the default stats on PVP gear...

As for PVE gear being better when not being focused, no shit, but the problem is that when you wear PVE gear you are the #1 focus target and no one will give a shit what class you are or what type of armor you are wearing because you sure as hell are easier to kill than the guy on your team with the resilience PVP set. PVE gear and not getting focused don't go together in anything past 1650 rating, simple as that.

Also, the BEST PVP trinket still comes from PVP, it's called medallion of the horde/alliance, try PVPing without it and you'll find out soon enough. Big deal if you can't fill the other slot with the best thing available, it's still easy to get something that gets close enough. I mean bloodlust brooch vs. berserker's call for example, obviously BC is the big brother but that 1 trinket slot isn't going to decide the outcome of an arena, unless if both players are clones of eachother except one has to use a bloodlust brooch where the other has BC(as in never).

[Felix]

I have no idea why all these warriors here are crying about hit rating? A full PVP set gives almost the 79 you should aim for (getting more just because SOME classes sometimes take a talent which increases your chance to miss further is stupid), it's not hard to throw a 8 hit gem into a yellow slot. Be glad you have only 5% chance to miss and be even more glad that the biggest part of those 5% are covered by the default stats on PVP gear...

As for PVE gear being better when not being focused, no shit, but the problem is that when you wear PVE gear you are the #1 focus target and no one will give a shit what class you are or what type of armor you are wearing because you sure as hell are easier to kill than the guy on your team with the resilience PVP set. PVE gear and not getting focused don't go together in anything past 1650 rating, simple as that.

Also, the BEST PVP trinket still comes from PVP, it's called medallion of the horde/alliance, try PVPing without it and you'll find out soon enough. Big deal if you can't fill the other slot with the best thing available, it's still easy to get something that gets close enough. I mean bloodlust brooch vs. berserker's call for example, obviously BC is the big brother but that 1 trinket slot isn't going to decide the outcome of an arena, unless if both players are clones of eachother except one has to use a bloodlust brooch where the other has BC(as in never).

What about Tsunami Talisman and all this Armor penetration that is given by PvE gear. Also If I were in PvE gear I would not consider any other build than 35/23/3 which gives me loads of options.

[Deleted]

Also If I were in PvE gear I would not consider any other build than 35/23/3 which gives me loads of options.

Then you would be below optimal for PvP and you would be below optimal for PvE also. Don't spec to fail! :P

[Felix]

Then you would be below optimal for PvP and you would be below optimal for PvE also. Don't spec to fail! :P

True I mean in PvE gear for PvP with Armor penetration etc

[Lesane]

What about Tsunami Talisman and all this Armor penetration that is given by PvE gear. Also If I were in PvE gear I would not consider any other build than 35/23/3 which gives me loads of options.

What about Tsunami Talisman? It's a good trinket for sure but it definately doesn't make or break anyone, hourglass of the unraveller is pretty much the same but is a lesser version, but those few extra stats on the TT won't make you win over the guy who uses a HotU. If I could choose between TT and Medallion of the Horde/Alliance I would go for the medallion without any doubt. And armor penetration, I dunno if I had been smoking pot when I checked the arena vendor but PVP armor has armor penetration on it, hell even some of the honor rewards have armor penetration on them. Also, your build isn't going to save you from getting schooled because you're wearing PVE gear, you can limit it to maybe a weapon and a trinket but aside from that you should really just stay away from PVE gear if you want to PVP.

[Lamberta]

I have no idea why all these warriors here are crying about hit rating? A full PVP set gives almost the 79 you should aim for (getting more just because SOME classes sometimes take a talent which increases your chance to miss further is stupid), it's not hard to throw a 8 hit gem into a yellow slot. Be glad you have only 5% chance to miss and be even more glad that the biggest part of those 5% are covered by the default stats on PVP gear...

As for PVE gear being better when not being focused, no shit, but the problem is that when you wear PVE gear you are the #1 focus target and no one will give a shit what class you are or what type of armor you are wearing because you sure as hell are easier to kill than the guy on your team with the resilience PVP set. PVE gear and not getting focused don't go together in anything past 1650 rating, simple as that.

Also, the BEST PVP trinket still comes from PVP, it's called medallion of the horde/alliance, try PVPing without it and you'll find out soon enough. Big deal if you can't fill the other slot with the best thing available, it's still easy to get something that gets close enough. I mean bloodlust brooch vs. berserker's call for example, obviously BC is the big brother but that 1 trinket slot isn't going to decide the outcome of an arena, unless if both players are clones of eachother except one has to use a bloodlust brooch where the other has BC(as in never).

As for the miss rate I agree.

As for PvE gear well you certainly will notbe 100% in PvE gear, you will have 4/5 Vengefull so u get all set bonuses and the remaining can be PvE. Will they still recognise if you have 280 resilience or 350? You can get for instance the Armor penetration Chest from PvE, Trinket etc..Dont forget also a ring with 50AP, 37 Stamina and 25 resilience (I think drops from SSC-insane).

Ok I agree for the medallion but it is self explanatory that we dont talk about non-dps trinkets.Then we can get the Talisman as well and we all are happy.

[Lamberta]

What about Tsunami Talisman? It's a good trinket for sure but it definately doesn't make or break anyone, hourglass of the unraveller is pretty much the same but is a lesser version, but those few extra stats on the TT won't make you win over the guy who uses a HotU. If I could choose between TT and Medallion of the Horde/Alliance I would go for the medallion without any doubt. And armor penetration, I dunno if I had been smoking pot when I checked the arena vendor but PVP armor has armor penetration on it, hell even some of the honor rewards have armor penetration on them. Also, your build isn't going to save you from getting schooled because you're wearing PVE gear, you can limit it to maybe a weapon and a trinket but aside from that you should really just stay away from PVE gear if you want to PVP.

Well I saw a Gladiator guy vs a Guy with BT armor penetration wepon and gear mixed with some PvP gear and BT guy smashed him. Also the BT trinket (dont remember name is insane). Tsunami Talisman is much better than Hourglass.

From what I saw my conclusion is that if you mix in a right way gems, PvP gear and PvE gear (trinkets, rings etc) you can easily nuke one with full PvP gear and the 8-0 proved it. Actually I talked to the PvP guy who lost and he told me that he was immensely out damaged.

[Narzania]

Not more comments. Funny think almost all gems had +resilience included in it.

Leggings of Divine Retribution
Binds when picked up
LegsPlate
1544 Armor
+51 Strength
+51 Stamina
Durability: 120 / 120
Requires Level 70
Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 35
Equip: Your attacks ignore 350 of your opponent's armor.

Cataclysm's Edge
Binds when picked up
Two HandSword
386-580 DmgSpeed 3.50
(138.0 damage per second)
+75 Strength
+49 Stamina
Equip: Your attacks ignore 335 of your opponent's armor.

Onslaught Battle-Helm
Binds when picked up
HeadPlate
1483 Armor
+54 Strength
+41 Agility
+54 Stamina
Meta Socket
Red Socket
Socket Bonus: +4 Strength
Equip: Your attacks ignore 105 of your opponent's armor.

Choker of Serrated Blades
Binds when picked up
Neck
+37 Stamina
Requires Level 70
Equip: Increases attack power by 70.
Equip: Your attacks ignore 175 of your opponent's armor.

Onslaught Shoulderblades
Binds when picked up
ShouldersPlate
1369 Armor
+39 Strength
+39 Agility
+34 Stamina
Yellow Socket
Blue Socket
Socket Bonus: +3 Critical Strike Rating
Equip: Your attacks ignore 91 of your opponent's armor.

Stormrage Signet Ring
Binds when picked up
Unique
Finger
+33 Stamina
Equip: Improves hit rating by 30
Equip: Increases attack power by 66.
Equip: Your attacks ignore 126 of your opponent's armor.

Signet of Primal Wrath
Binds when picked up
Unique
Finger
+28 Agility
+30 Stamina
Equip: Increases attack power by 58.
Equip: Your attacks ignore 126 of your opponent's armor.

Madness of the Betrayer
Binds when picked up
Unique
Trinket
Requires Level 70
Equip: Improves hit rating by 20
Equip: Increases attack power by 84.
Equip: Your melee and ranged attacks have a chance allow you to ignore 300 of your enemies' armor for 10 secs.

Shall I say more?....

p.s. Weapon had executioner just count amount of Armor reduction. Even warriors almost run naked against these kind of guys. And thats sample of the gear..Guy was completelly smashed btw (the PvP guy I mean)

[Lesane]

As for PvE gear well you certainly will notbe 100% in PvE gear, you will have 4/5 Vengefull so u get all set bonuses and the remaining can be PvE. Will they still recognise if you have 280 resilience or 350? You can get for instance the Armor penetration Chest from PvE, Trinket etc..Dont forget also a ring with 50AP, 37 Stamina and 25 resilience (I think drops from SSC-insane).

4/5 vengeful isn't even 100 resilience, for the warrior set at most it's 24+24+25+22 (and this is if you're not wearing gloves, which is dumb because it has the hamstring bonus), that is a grand total of 95 resilience. You need 400 to even counter the damage debuff from berserker stance when it comes to DoT's. And the ring from Hydross is terribad, I would rather wear the S2/S3 combo, other than that it's not like it's hard to kill Hydross... I bet there are tons of guilds willing to sell you that mediocre ring for a couple of hundred gold.

Well I saw a Gladiator guy vs a Guy with BT armor penetration wepon and gear mixed with some PvP gear and BT guy smashed him. Also the BT trinket (dont remember name is insane). Tsunami Talisman is much better than Hourglass.

From what I saw my conclusion is that if you mix in a right way gems, PvP gear and PvE gear (trinkets, rings etc) you can easily nuke one with full PvP gear and the 8-0 proved it. Actually I talked to the PvP guy who lost and he told me that he was immensely out damaged.

Duels don't prove much. Especially not warrior vs. warrior duels. It's about overall performance in PVP. Ok grats you might have an edge over another warrior in toe to toe melee (which I seriously doubt because the much better survivability stats of the PVP geared warrior will shine more in long battles), but that's all. Against any class with on demand burst damage you can prepare to drop like a fly.

As for Tsunami Talisman being 'much better'? You gain 10 hit rating, 6 crit rating and 40 extra AP when it procs. The Hourglass is worth at least 75% of the power the Talisman has. Better? Yes. Much better? No. A 33% increase on 1 slot of the entire 13 or whatever it is won't make or break a game.

And Narzania, I don't see what you try to prove with listing those items. Please note how none of those items aside from the ring and trinket have hit rating. Most lack crit rating as well. They have 0 resilience in total and much lower stamina. Not only that but you won't have the insanely powerful set bonuses from the arena set. You're simply a fool if you're gonna PVP in the gear you just listed. I won't completely deny that he MIGHT have an edge over another warrior when they are fighting EACHOTHER but how many times do you seriously see warriors fight eachother all the time? There are more things in the game like this, I bet all rogues would wear their PVE gear vs. warlocks if they were allowed to but vs. warriors they would get completely demolished. For overall PVP performance, the PVP items are king, simple as that.

[Kozikk]

Why is the PvP and PvE conversation always never ending? Here is the summery. PvP'ers are complaining that you can only get the best gear by raiding. Then why are you not raiding?! No one says that you cannot raid. In fact, Season 3 gear is equivalent to T5 in many situations. The one argument I have heard is that you do not have enough time to raid. If that is the case, then I really don't understand why you are complaining. Just with anything, spending more time doing something should yield rewards. I could be upset that I am not as buff as those guys that live at the gym (you know the ones), but that is totally insane. This is no different. Yes you may have to start at the beginning, maybe raiding SSC, and making your way up to the gear you want for PvP, but that is exactly what PvE'ers have done.

PvP and PvE are all apart of the same game. PvP gear can be used in PvE, and PvE gear can be used in PvP. This will always be the case.

[Narzania]

4/5 vengeful isn't even 100 resilience, for the warrior set at most it's 24+24+25+22 (and this is if you're not wearing gloves, which is dumb because it has the hamstring bonus), that is a grand total of 95 resilience. You need 400 to even counter the damage debuff from berserker stance when it comes to DoT's. And the ring from Hydross is terribad, I would rather wear the S2/S3 combo, other than that it's not like it's hard to kill Hydross... I bet there are tons of guilds willing to sell you that mediocre ring for a couple of hundred gold.

Duels don't prove much. Especially not warrior vs. warrior duels. It's about overall performance in PVP. Ok grats you might have an edge over another warrior in toe to toe melee (which I seriously doubt because the much better survivability stats of the PVP geared warrior will shine more in long battles), but that's all. Against any class with on demand burst damage you can prepare to drop like a fly.

As for Tsunami Talisman being 'much better'? You gain 10 hit rating, 6 crit rating and 40 extra AP when it procs. The Hourglass is worth at least 75% of the power the Talisman has. Better? Yes. Much better? No. A 33% increase on 1 slot of the entire 13 or whatever it is won't make or break a game.

And Narzania, I don't see what you try to prove with listing those items. Please note how none of those items aside from the ring and trinket have hit rating. Most lack crit rating as well. They have 0 resilience in total and much lower stamina. Not only that but you won't have the insanely powerful set bonuses from the arena set. You're simply a fool if you're gonna PVP in the gear you just listed. I won't completely deny that he MIGHT have an edge over another warrior when they are fighting EACHOTHER but how many times do you seriously see warriors fight eachother all the time? There are more things in the game like this, I bet all rogues would wear their PVE gear vs. warlocks if they were allowed to but vs. warriors they would get completely demolished. For overall PVP performance, the PVP items are king, simple as that.

The set bonouses are insane also but have been removed cause would be too long

[Narzania]

Why is the PvP and PvE conversation always never ending? Here is the summery. PvP'ers are complaining that you can only get the best gear by raiding. Then why are you not raiding?! No one says that you cannot raid. In fact, Season 3 gear is equivalent to T5 in many situations. The one argument I have heard is that you do not have enough time to raid. If that is the case, then I really don't understand why you are complaining. Just with anything, spending more time doing something should yield rewards. I could be upset that I am not as buff as those guys that live at the gym (you know the ones), but that is totally insane. This is no different. Yes you may have to start at the beginning, maybe raiding SSC, and making your way up to the gear you want for PvP, but that is exactly what PvE'ers have done.

PvP and PvE are all apart of the same game. PvP gear can be used in PvE, and PvE gear can be used in PvP. This will always be the case.

Who says I am complaining, I am just stating a fact. And as for Tsunami Talisman how much better would you have liked it to be for you to consider it much better? The +hit and higer crit and AP is already enough. Check its lvl in wowhead against hourglass.

[Deleted]

and you've hit the nail on the head there. It's about time investment.

Those with more time and drive to invest in something will always have an edge.

As the above example said, you might catch yourself being jealous of the guy with the awesome physique. Well .... he spends 4 hours a day in the gym, every day and never eats pizza etc. He doesn't have time to play WoW. He decided what he wanted and INVESTED the time to get it.

[Lesane]

The set bonouses are insane also but have been removed cause would be too long

-3 rage on execute and +5% MS damage is not insane.

[Narzania]

-3 rage on execute and +5% MS damage is not insane.

What ?? Its not insane if you have to spent 35 entire talents in Arms to go to +5% MS dmg more? Have you ever been 41/20 latelly? Well I have and I can tell you how much insane dmg I do. Added an extra 5% dmg on MS its just amazing and coupled with Improved MS u have +10% which scales with gear its just out of any imagination how dmg you can make. In a 1200 normal MS hit a 5% would be 1260, 60 extra damage equivalent to 220 AP. Is it negligible? MS is our primary talent for our Existence in PvP otherwise we would be close to useless.

Also there is an entire point spent on Execute. If you are 33/28 you can actually take another talent instead of IE to benefit more from it. And do you know how much -3 rage in execute translates in damage? ok here it is 21*3=63 more damage which is equal to 231 more AP. Do you really think its nothing?

Add all the above to Armor penetration which the gear gives.

[Narzania]

and you've hit the nail on the head there. It's about time investment.

Those with more time and drive to invest in something will always have an edge.

As the above example said, you might catch yourself being jealous of the guy with the awesome physique. Well .... he spends 4 hours a day in the gym, every day and never eats pizza etc. He doesn't have time to play WoW. He decided what he wanted and INVESTED the time to get it.

I have to agree here

[Felix]

What ?? Its not insane if you have to spent 35 entire talents in Arms to go to +5% MS dmg more? Have you ever been 41/20 latelly? Well I have and I can tell you how much insane dmg I do. Added an extra 5% dmg on MS its just amazing and coupled with Improved MS u have +10% which scales with gear its just out of any imagination how dmg you can make. In a 1200 normal MS hit a 5% would be 1260, 60 extra damage equivalent to 220 AP. Is it negligible? MS is our primary talent for our Existence in PvP otherwise we would be close to useless.

Also there is an entire point spent on Execute. If you are 33/28 you can actually take another talent instead of IE to benefit more from it. And do you know how much -3 rage in execute translates in damage? ok here it is 21*3=63 more damage which is equal to 231 more AP. Do you really think its nothing?

Add all the above to Armor penetration which the gear gives.

Yup its insane. It also scales great with gear and its insane with 41/20 build on top. I have seen these kinda guys smashing every class being mages, locks, priests, warriors, rogues with 400+ resilience into pieces. Ok they got less resilience but they also have such imba AP and armor penetration that each normal hit hits like a crit so they kill very fast before they get killed.

[Lamberta]

Yup its insane. It also scales great with gear and its insane with 41/20 build on top. I have seen these kinda guys smashing every class being mages, locks, priests, warriors, rogues with 400+ resilience into pieces. Ok they got less resilience but they also have such imba AP and armor penetration that each normal hit hits like a crit so they kill very fast before they get killed.

Yup True