Warrior Talent Changes

[Felix]

I just mean that you can't really calculate with the full bonus damage as it's reduced by armor. Maybe my 4% estimate was too low but it's still only a rather small amount of extra damage on a rarely used skill (especially in pvp).

I use it all the time and its making damn good dmg

[Felix]

I just mean that you can't really calculate with the full bonus damage as it's reduced by armor. Maybe my 4% estimate was too low but it's still only a rather small amount of extra damage on a rarely used skill (especially in pvp).

8% Extra damage you know how big this is? on a 1k hit its 80 extra damage or an equivalent to more than 300AP.Do you think 300AP is small amount?

[Exorbius]

With Death Wish and Imp Intercept moved into the Arms tree I don't see why an Arms warrior would still have to go deep into Fury.

What's so bad about Improved Mortalstrike, Blood Frenzy and Endless Rage?

Beyond cruelty the 2nd and 3rd tier of Fury is lacking attractive abilites beside Piercing Howl. So I'm thinking to put the remaining points in the Def tree for -1.5% chance to get parried and dodged (Defiance), Last Stand, Improved Bloodrage & TM.

All in all I'll run with something like this: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LVMcdAbog0dioVZf0t0h

Are you dumb??? Enrage and sweeping strikes aren't "attractive abilities???" I will listen to no further suggestions you have to offer.

[Exorbius]

Why?

Just a follow up to my previous post. On the topic of endless rage, it sucks because it doesn't scale with gear. When you're PvPing in good gear, theres so much rage to throw around that i find myself between a rock and a hard spot trying to "dump" it all. Especially when I have someone attacking me.

[insidelane]

How could you consider imp cleave to be better than SS? Also enrage is going to help you a lot against 4dps teams.

[frosty]

Prot hybrid is terrible for any serious kind of play, maybe as a "for kicks" BG/Instance build but meh.

i have got 1760 rating with 3 highwarlord + lunar crescent and outland blue rings + neck with a crap geared healer too on my warrior, that's hard for a bad geared team- the arms/prot hybrid helps there- people don't expect the 5 sec stun from an axe user, it's really useful as another healing interupt, i have noticed no change in dps, the only change i notice is against classes like rogue warrior + frost mage where i dont get the 25% enrage damage bonus, but forget rogue, if there's a rogue on the oposing team they've lost for sure anyway, i find last mans stand, 5% extra reduction and a 5 sec stun( with 45 sec cd :O) a hell of alot more useful

[lithander]

Just a follow up to my previous post. On the topic of endless rage, it sucks because it doesn't scale with gear. When you're PvPing in good gear, theres so much rage to throw around that i find myself between a rock and a hard spot trying to "dump" it all. Especially when I have someone attacking me.

Well then it sucks only for Warriors in good gear!^^ Seriously, against certain classes like priest I can't immagine anyone having too much rage. And a high rage gen is also very useful to get rage up quickly after a stance change.

For me and my gear... I couldn't even keep a MS and WW on cooldown without it at the moment (or getting damage). It's far from useless.

@Cleave: 8% on MS would be nice (even though 5% and 1sec less cooldown is far nicer) but 8% on a very situational ragedumb is not nearly as impressive.

@Concussion Blow: I could see where Concussion Blow helps in PvP. Does it share diminishing returns with Charge and Intercept?

[frosty]

yes it shares he same diminshing returns as netercept and charge, normally i wouldn't use it near-after an intercept
but if the healer is next to the target ( in 2v2 for example ) then i would just use the /cast [focus=target] concussion blow macro and hopefully be able to finish off the dps
*and another thing it's very useful for is saving my healer's ass by stunning the dps for 5 sec allowing a full healing touch, very useful considering my druid healer has 0 resilience and 9.2k hp with commanding shout and no survival talents like natural perfection >.<

[Rax]

@ dude who says dont spec for 1v1s:
No shit, sherlock, but have you ever fought a drain team? It's 2 or 3 mana burners turning all your DPS to nothing while a Druid or Frost Mage will kite you the entire time. He doesn't even kill you, he just makes sure you don't touch the Mana Burners. If you don't have Second Wind in this situation you will probably never surpass 30 rage unless you want to base your entire match on getting lucky and critting on your first hit (~30% crit - 10% resilience = 20% chance to get this... you must be a gambling man). Get Second Wind, enable yourself to fight versus drain teams / any team with Druid on it, this is a no-brainer and not a point of discussion.

@ guys saying that Imp MS is great:
Well, like I said in my original post it's just a matter of more Mortal Strike damage vs. speed increase from Flurry, which is not only a speed increase but also an indirect rage increase because you are swinging much more often. I ended up getting Flurry because sometimes in arena I won't be touched by the other team while they attempt to keep my rage low.

@ guy who says 31/30 is good for arena:
... like I said why are you people not getting Second Wind? This is a silly thought and should be kept in PVE forums. See above for reason why.

@ ppl saying Enrage is worthless in arenas:
Sometimes I get Enrage off a Frost Nova, Shock or variety of other spells... which means I get BoF and a Windfury totem dropped and the game ends. Also against 4x DPS teams I will often be focus fired and my Enrage activates instantly. In that situation I lose 25% damage for a measly 5% to MS? No thanks.

@ 35/5/21 guy:
No

@ Tactical Mastery:
I don't see any reason to get this talent with new SS. And even less reason to get it if you are not even getting Sweeping Strikes. What are you switching with 25 rage built up for? Overpower takes 5 rage so that's not necessary. Switching to Battle Stance for a shield reflect could be awesome now that the weapon switch bug is fixed but that's kind of pointless unless you're doing 1v1. Get Flurry instead and use Sweeping Strikes more in arena and you'll see your damage skyrocket. It's also incredible in BG.

My conclusion is that Imp MS is a nice thought and a 41+ Arms build will be fun for Battlegrounds, but the 33/28/0 or 33/25/3 builds will continue to dominate where it counts (arena) and nothing I've seen since 2.3 came out says otherwise. Personally I love Slam and am VERY successful with it in PVP due some special things I do with my addons so there is really no time where I have "extra" rage hanging around. If there is Rage, I will use it without interrupting my white damage and put a lot of pressure on whoever I'm smashing. Good ideas and points but I haven't heard anything to change my mind about this build.

Also it would be nice if Tactical Mastery supporters would explain why they need this as opposed to just going "ZOMG U NO GET TM NOOB LAWL"

[frosty]

@ 35/5/21 guy:
No

ugh the ignorance....
for 5v5 maybe i wouldn't spec 35/5/21, only for 2v2, i don't do 3v3 and 5v5 on my warrior, so far 35/5/21 in 2v2 has proved very nicely, better than any other builds i have had so far, and tactical mastery is a must for 2v2 also, casters always go for me over the druid

@ Tactical Mastery:
I don't see any reason to get this talent with new SS. And even less reason to get it if you are not even getting Sweeping Strikes. What are you switching with 25 rage built up for? Overpower takes 5 rage so that's not necessary. Switching to Battle Stance for a shield reflect could be awesome now that the weapon switch bug is fixed but that's kind of pointless unless you're doing 1v1. Get Flurry instead and use Sweeping Strikes more in arena and you'll see your damage skyrocket. It's also incredible in BG.

again, from a 2v2 or 3v3 perspective stance mastery is needed, if you are too far away from the target from being kited i.e by a frost mage or warlock then swtiching over to defensive stance while intercept is on cooldown is always nice

[lithander]

Also it would be nice if Tactical Mastery supporters would explain why they need this as opposed to just going "ZOMG U NO GET TM NOOB LAWL"

Well probably a matter of what format you play. I like to play 2vs2 with my girlfriends druid.

While it's always nice to be able go def stance and spamming spellreflect while frozen or rooted I find TM even more useful when it's my turn to help my druid partner. A warrior getting a charge on her (thus having intercept still ready) can be very deadly as well as a stunlocking rogue. Being able to instant-intervene to her or in case I'm in range allready doing an instant-disarm is very often all she needs to get away.

And on a side note: With 15% extra speed through flurry you don't generate 15% more rage. The rage-gen formula takes the (reduced) weapon speed into account. It's more rage but nothing like the 25% from Endless Rage.

[Rax]

Thanks for pointing out the reduced rage gen from reduced speed, lithander, and yeah, I think i said this but I'm not necessarily completely against Stance Mastery and am still wondering if I should pick it up when I go Swords - I just think it's lost a lot of its utility for ME because it shined the brightest when I would hit SS and then go zerk and use Whirlwind. I see a lot of rage go down the drain in BG mostly and I think if I spec out of Slam I'm going to lose even more due to not being able to dump Rage on stuns and whatnot, so Tactical Mastery might be what I need more than Flurry.

Oh and I see your point about Last Stand and Concussion Blow, I suppose if you work really well with those skills then this build could be fun. I actually thought about it once but I deemed it less important than 21 pt Fury because of Diminishing Returns on Concussion Blow when used in succession with Intercept and Mace Stun and the loss of some amazing talents like Imp Shouts and Enrage.