1. #1

    Arena 44/14/3- DMG+Crl Machine: Enrage+SS+WM are actually needed?

    This is the build:

    What do you think guys? 3/3 Improved Cleave could go to substitute 3/3 BC if needed. But do you really think Enrage is so necessary?

  2. #2

    Re: Arena 44/14/3- DMG+Crl Machine: Enrage+SS+WM are actually needed?

    Lemme check first your arms tree:

    - No anger management: U need more rage generated and fast, arenas don't last that much and u need as much as u can. Get it.
    - Blood Frenzy: I see this more a pve passive abilitie than a pvp one, as u mostly stay on bersk stance and sometimes rending a target on arena can make lose rage when u change stances, even if you have TM.
    - Imp Hamstring: Yeah might be useful on those pesky pillar dancers but you have piercing howl and your normal hamstring, you dont really need to stop at all the target, as your main mission in arena is to land MS on the enemy to avoid the heals and kill em fast.
    - Imp MS: never tried it, I don't really see any use for it, if u have a high dps wep you should be ending your enemy's life fast enough. So extra time on MS is waste of points.
    - Endless Rage: never tried it, too deep in the Arms tree to be useful IMO, for rage u have good talents on Fury tree.

    Now your fury tree:
    - Unbridled Wrath: Why not? This is an ez cheap source of rage generation on the tree why not picking it up.
    - Imp Demo Shout: You will end mostly hitting clothies in arena, demo shout its more usefull if your target it's a high damage melee class (rogues, droods, warriors, retadins and even hunters) no need to put all the 5 points here, Id rather put em on booming voice to increase the time of your shouts and the range.
    - Commanding Presence: U need to boost up your AP or your teams HP (which I do most of the time if the other MS warrior is not on the playing time) the most you can. More HP means more survival.
    - Enrage: Can be very very very very useful if you have a fast 2H enchanted with Mongoose, in this case a mace will probably have 3.7 or 3.8 in their speed, with enrage that speed gets down a notch and gives you more swings per second, u can pop DW/Trinkets when u enrage to increase damage meaning that you will crit or do more white dmg with higher numbers.
    - Imp cleave is a joke, and if you don't have Sweeping Strike even worst, SS gives you the ability to land for 10 swings damage to nearby opponents if you can enclose the opposite team in arena SS+WW+Cleave, doing MS, demo shout = lots of dead people. Or at least you will do a lot of AoE damage, if landed properly goodbye squishies.
    - Imp Slam or Weapon Mastery: Kind of controversial now that blizz changed the disarm thing to diminishing returns, this I leave it up to you, Imp Slam when properly done, can crit very very high, (highest crit Ive gotten in arena is 3k), u just need to practice and learn how it works. Weapon mastery gives you the chance to avoid dodges, so your hits will land more successfully.

    Im not a math freak nor I dig on theorycraft, but this Is what Ive learned thru all the time Ive been playing my warrior.

    Check these specs, that are more common and more pvp/arena viable.

    If u have any chain/item that reduces disarm: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LV0xdAbqM0zbZVVzV0goZc
    If u have don't care about Imp Slam on pvp: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LV0xdAbqM0zbZVVzV0xRZc


  3. #3

    Re: Arena 44/14/3- DMG+Crl Machine: Enrage+SS+WM are actually needed?

    My answers in brackets:

    Quote Originally Posted by Mhord
    Lemme check first your arms tree:

    - No anger management: U need more rage generated and fast, arenas don't last that much and u need as much as u can. Get it. (its only 1 rage every 3 secs I have Endless rage my dmg generates enough rage so I dont need it)
    - Blood Frenzy: I see this more a pve passive abilitie than a pvp one, as u mostly stay on bersk stance and sometimes rending a target on arena can make lose rage when u change stances, even if you have TM. (Disagree, Blood Frenzy procs off rend and deep wounds abilities.You dont have to pop rend. Deep wounds is activated after a critical strike and therefore a high crit rate will proc Deep Wounds and as a result Blood frenzy. Its loads of dmg for 2 points vs 4 points in 2H weapon spec to get the same dmg increase)
    - Imp Hamstring: Yeah might be useful on those pesky pillar dancers but you have piercing howl and your normal hamstring, you dont really need to stop at all the target, as your main mission in arena is to land MS on the enemy to avoid the heals and kill em fast. (No I have found it very useful.With Mace spec actually your target remains CCd quite often.Dont forget Hamstring was nerfed)
    - Imp MS: never tried it, I don't really see any use for it, if u have a high dps wep you should be ending your enemy's life fast enough. So extra time on MS is waste of points.(in one minute you could land 10 MS on normal MS but 12 with Improved MS increasing your damage by 20% disregarding the +5% more dmg from the talent)
    - Endless Rage: never tried it, too deep in the Arms tree to be useful IMO, for rage u have good talents on Fury tree.

    Now your fury tree:
    - Unbridled Wrath: Why not? This is an ez cheap source of rage generation on the tree why not picking it up.(As I mentioned above, Endless rage makes it redundant as it generates enough rage to compensate for AM+UW)
    - Imp Demo Shout: You will end mostly hitting clothies in arena, demo shout its more usefull if your target it's a high damage melee class (rogues, droods, warriors, retadins and even hunters) no need to put all the 5 points here, Id rather put em on booming voice to increase the time of your shouts and the range.(True but so will the other melee so u need to debuff them and the incremental debuff is 120AP less which is quite important)
    - Commanding Presence: U need to boost up your AP or your teams HP (which I do most of the time if the other MS warrior is not on the playing time) the most you can. More HP means more survival. (Well you are right about survival but I can still boost their HP but not as much.I dont see that much difference though. As for AP, well Blood Frenzy increases all melee damage on that target by 4% which is significant so it takes care of dmg)
    - Enrage: Can be very very very very useful if you have a fast 2H enchanted with Mongoose, in this case a mace will probably have 3.7 or 3.8 in their speed, with enrage that speed gets down a notch and gives you more swings per second, u can pop DW/Trinkets when u enrage to increase damage meaning that you will crit or do more white dmg with higher numbers. (well yes but I am usually not targeted first to be enraged in Arenas and even when I am targeted I dont get enrage that often plus its only for 12 secs plus u need to be on the target and not CCd so its not wasted.Another important issue is that it doesnt stack with Death Wish it was nerfed you didnt know it?Making it less useful.)
    - Imp cleave is a joke, and if you don't have Sweeping Strike even worst, SS gives you the ability to land for 10 swings damage to nearby opponents if you can enclose the opposite team in arena SS+WW+Cleave, doing MS, demo shout = lots of dead people. Or at least you will do a lot of AoE damage, if landed properly goodbye squishies.(Cleave is not a joke at all, it does insane dmg cause its 120% increase to the 70 damage it generates therefore it adds an extra 84 dmg which is great- a total of 154 damage. Who told you its useless? read post on Improved Cleave. As for SS I agree its nice talent but the faster the weapon the better it gets and its better with Flurry but it has 30 secs CD and takes 30 rage. Cleave alone can do the job damn well)
    - Imp Slam or Weapon Mastery: Kind of controversial now that blizz changed the disarm thing to diminishing returns, this I leave it up to you, Imp Slam when properly done, can crit very very high, (highest crit Ive gotten in arena is 3k), u just need to practice and learn how it works. Weapon mastery gives you the chance to avoid dodges, so your hits will land more successfully.

    Im not a math freak nor I dig on theorycraft, but this Is what Ive learned thru all the time Ive been playing my warrior.

    Check these specs, that are more common and more pvp/arena viable.

    If u have any chain/item that reduces disarm: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LV0xdAbqM0zbZVVzV0goZc
    If u have don't care about Imp Slam on pvp: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LV0xdAbqM0zbZVVzV0xRZc


  4. #4

    Re: Arena 44/14/3- DMG+Crl Machine: Enrage+SS+WM are actually needed?

    This would be something I would be willing to try. Felix knows what hes talking about, the other guy seems to be clueless on warrior talents/specs. I see your reason for skipping enrage is that you barely get hit in arenas, unless the other team goes for a surprise kill on you.(I'm speaking in terms of 5v5) In which case you would have to go defensive (If you're smart) and wont get to use the enrage while its on you. Of course there is always that lucky hamstring an opposing warrior puts on you that crits, or the whirlwind that you happen to be in range of that procs enrage etc. Always good to see people with new ideas out there, instead of all the bandwagoners.

  5. #5

    Re: Arena 44/14/3- DMG+Crl Machine: Enrage+SS+WM are actually needed?

    Enrage and Deathwish do not stack. There was a nerf several months ago.

    However, enrage and deathwish are MUST HAVE talents for any size arena.

    I also recommend putting one or two points in flurry. This will give you a 5%-10% haste rating on your attacks everytime u crit. This will proc for you 24/7 even with only one point in it. Do not under-estimate this talent.

    Sweeping strikes is also extremely nice. 1 minute cooldown, 10 extra swings, and u can pop it while in berserker. They buffed hybrid pvp warriors big time in 2.3 WOOT.

    Karla

  6. #6

    Re: Arena 44/14/3- DMG+Crl Machine: Enrage+SS+WM are actually needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Karla
    Enrage and Deathwish do not stack. There was a nerf several months ago.

    However, enrage and deathwish are MUST HAVE talents for any size arena.

    I also recommend putting one or two points in flurry. This will give you a 5%-10% haste rating on your attacks everytime u crit. This will proc for you 24/7 even with only one point in it. Do not under-estimate this talent.

    Sweeping strikes is also extremely nice. 1 minute cooldown, 10 extra swings, and u can pop it while in berserker. They buffed hybrid pvp warriors big time in 2.3 WOOT.

    Karla
    Very well Said btw Felix.

    As for the quoted post- Well if you like so much enrage just take 3 talents out of Improved Hamstring and place 1 on CP and 2 on Enrage.

    Flurry- nah (as an idea is good but..resilience...+ 12 secs proc + u get CCd...)

    SS- Well it good but more dmg with Cleave. U got WW + Cleave. Why u need SS with 30 secs CD and 30 rage.

    You cant really have all. So there is always a trade off.

  7. #7

    Re: Arena 44/14/3- DMG+Crl Machine: Enrage+SS+WM are actually needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Narzania
    Flurry- nah (as an idea is good but..resilience...+ 12 secs proc + u get CCd...)
    resilience doesn't stop skills like flurry or enrage from proccing, if the hit was meant to be a crit you'll gain flurry but the attack won't crit.

  8. #8

    Re: Arena 44/14/3- DMG+Crl Machine: Enrage+SS+WM are actually needed?

    acctualy the guy doesn't know what he is talking


    You can kill fast a target, unless you are playing under 1500 rating. After 2200-2300 rating, the games are for outlasting.


    so best spec for 5 vs 5 is : http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LV0xdGbogbzbZE0zmMxRc

    let me clear some points. In 5v5 you need more dps, flurry is a good point to take it, olso better to take 2/2 second wind 3/5 flurry, becouse it procs a lot while you get in frost nova.

    Olso, unbrindled wrath is not good point for taking for 2h weapon, it's only 40 % proc, so it won't give you much use. Booming Voice is better, becouse it's giving additional 1 min, wich is better for 5v5, were games are lasting quit much, I noticed that many warriros forget to rebuff shouts.


    2v2 spec: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LV0xdGbogbzbZE0zmMxRZc

    Simple, I do 5v5 with merciless 2h sword, and 2v2 I do with stormherald.

    I'm playing 2v2 with a druid, so I don't need as much dps, I'd rather go for stuns and spell reflect, that's why I prefer TM for 2v2 rather then flurry.

  9. #9

    Re: Arena 44/14/3- DMG+Crl Machine: Enrage+SS+WM are actually needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by stormtang
    resilience doesn't stop skills like flurry or enrage from proccing, if the hit was meant to be a crit you'll gain flurry but the attack won't crit.
    Its gives a % chance but not 100% chance

  10. #10

    Re: Arena 44/14/3- DMG+Crl Machine: Enrage+SS+WM are actually needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mightyone
    acctualy the guy doesn't know what he is talking


    You can kill fast a target, unless you are playing under 1500 rating. After 2200-2300 rating, the games are for outlasting.


    so best spec for 5 vs 5 is : http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LV0xdGbogbzbZE0zmMxRc

    let me clear some points. In 5v5 you need more dps, flurry is a good point to take it, olso better to take 2/2 second wind 3/5 flurry, becouse it procs a lot while you get in frost nova.

    Olso, unbrindled wrath is not good point for taking for 2h weapon, it's only 40 % proc, so it won't give you much use. Booming Voice is better, becouse it's giving additional 1 min, wich is better for 5v5, were games are lasting quit much, I noticed that many warriros forget to rebuff shouts.


    2v2 spec: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LV0xdGbogbzbZE0zmMxRZc

    Simple, I do 5v5 with merciless 2h sword, and 2v2 I do with stormherald.

    I'm playing 2v2 with a druid, so I don't need as much dps, I'd rather go for stuns and spell reflect, that's why I prefer TM for 2v2 rather then flurry.
    I dont know what am talking about?

    Who told you that I proposed UW? I proposed Demo shout. And you really think that the build 44/14/3 does not have much dps? It has insane dps. And Cleave is a very good talent- You can Cleave on Demand whereas for SS you have to make sure enemies are close to you the entire 10 secs. What about if they get out of range? Whereas with Cleave u activate it whenever they are and you dont get to lose your attacks.

    Also, who told you that the proposed build doesnt have Second wind?

  11. #11

    Re: Arena 44/14/3- DMG+Crl Machine: Enrage+SS+WM are actually needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by stormtang
    resilience doesn't stop skills like flurry or enrage from proccing, if the hit was meant to be a crit you'll gain flurry but the attack won't crit.
    No. Resilience on YOURSELF gives you a small chance to proc "when crittED" talents, flurry will not proc from normal hits if you fight someone with resilience, same goes with Seal Fate and every other talent requiring you to PERFORM a crit in order to trigger it, only "receive" crit talents will trigger from normal strikes on YOU.

  12. #12

    Re: Arena 44/14/3- DMG+Crl Machine: Enrage+SS+WM are actually needed?

    Appears to be working well so far- constant solid dmg. Enrage as I ve seen works better in BGs and during solo situations but not so good in Arenas. Guaranteed solid damage is the best.

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