Warrior: Battlemaster's Determination or Battlemaster's Cruelty

[Mongrel]

Hey guys,

Since season 3 ive gotten quite a lot of new gear, and right now im saving up for a new trinket.
But i cant decide to go for:

Battlemaster's Determination
Equip: Increases attack power by 80.
Use: Increases maximum health by 1750 for 15 sec.

OR

Battlemaster's Cruelty
Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 40
Use: Increases maximum health by 1750 for 15 sec.

I mostly need it for arena, 2vs2, i already have quite high crit. I cant decide wich one is better for me, more AP or more Crit ?? Because armory still hasnt updated ill give some of my specs without 1 trinket then.

AP: 1636 (2018 with battleshout)
Crit: 38,38% in beserker stance.

So what is better? adding 80 AP or 40 crit rating(about 1,81% crit) ?

EDIT: Just noticed armory still has my old talent build, current one is:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LV0xdGioMbzbZVVzmMxRc

I do have 3 points in flurry.

Any info is welcome!

[Felix]

Hey guys,

Since season 3 ive gotten quite a lot of new gear, and right now im saving up for a new trinket.
But i cant decide to go for:

Battlemaster's Determination
Equip: Increases attack power by 80.
Use: Increases maximum health by 1750 for 15 sec.

OR

Battlemaster's Cruelty
Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 40
Use: Increases maximum health by 1750 for 15 sec.

I mostly need it for arena, 2vs2, i already have quite high crit. I cant decide wich one is better for me, more AP or more Crit ?? Because armory still hasnt updated ill give some of my specs without 1 trinket then.

AP: 1636 (2018 with battleshout)
Crit: 38,38% in beserker stance.

So what is better? adding 80 AP or 40 crit rating(about 1,81% crit) ?

EDIT: Just noticed armory still has my old talent build, current one is:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LV0xdGioMbzbZVVzmMxRc

I do have 3 points in flurry.

Any info is welcome!

Do you really think that any of these trinkets is any good? They are all crap- temporary heal of 1750 and 3 min CD? The CD itself is total crap.

[Calminaion]

I would say you'd need to up your AP a bit ... your crit is pretty high, no need to make it even higher at the expense of extra AP.

As a comparison, I have 1650 AP, but only 29% crit ... so I would go for the +crit ...

[Felix]

Hey guys,

Since season 3 ive gotten quite a lot of new gear, and right now im saving up for a new trinket.
But i cant decide to go for:

Battlemaster's Determination
Equip: Increases attack power by 80.
Use: Increases maximum health by 1750 for 15 sec.

OR

Battlemaster's Cruelty
Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 40
Use: Increases maximum health by 1750 for 15 sec.

I mostly need it for arena, 2vs2, i already have quite high crit. I cant decide wich one is better for me, more AP or more Crit ?? Because armory still hasnt updated ill give some of my specs without 1 trinket then.

AP: 1636 (2018 with battleshout)
Crit: 38,38% in beserker stance.

So what is better? adding 80 AP or 40 crit rating(about 1,81% crit) ?

EDIT: Just noticed armory still has my old talent build, current one is:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LV0xdGioMbzbZVVzmMxRc

I do have 3 points in flurry.

Any info is welcome!

My question is what is your current trinket? Does it have AP or crit?

[Azain]

i would tend to agree with the 2nd poster, neither trinket is that good. now it would depend on what you are running with. personally i run with a druid, so that extra boost every 3 mins could be useful incase things ever get close, but if they do chanes are we are out-matched anyway, or playing an anti combo.

i still favor something like bloodlust brooch or hourglass because of the damage buff they have, which you are more likely to need, especially in 2v2. if you dominate the match and control it from the start, chances are you will need that dps boost to close out the match, as opposed to playing an outlast style and using a battlemaster's trinket.

now if you roll with something like a ret pally, or feral druid, or ele shaman, then yea its nice when you are focused (rare with any of the partners i just mentioned) to have that trinket and possibly last stand in a 40/10/11 or w/e the appropriate last stand build is for arena warriors. i've tried the last stand build and it was nice, but i didn't like losing the dps that those extra fury points give you. i imagine using a battlemaster's trinket would be much the same, but i won't be spending the badges or honor/arena points anytime soon to personally test it out.

all that being said, i would stick to attack power if you are mace, and crit if you are sword or axe.

[GardenGnome78]

Hi everyone.

I'm in the exact same boat as you are. I've been debating on which of these 2 trinkets to get for my dps/PvP equipment and I'm torn. When specced into Arms I have 37.39% critical strike (berserker stance) chance and 2102 AP with shout up, so I don't feel I especially lack really in either. Makes it a hard choice!

While I do agree the CD on these could be better (2min instead of 3 for one thing), and that the badge cost is borderline insane, there is no denying that 80 AP is very nice, as is 40 crit. rating. They are worth it, imo, for those aspects alone. Personally I'm leaning toward the crit% one.. there are lots of buffs you can easily get for AP (your own shout, BoM, GoTW, etc) boosts. Not as many that would so dramatically up crit, unless you always have a Feral Druid handy!

[Felix]

all that being said, i would stick to attack power if you are mace, and crit if you are sword or axe.

I dont agree with that its a matter of which area you are weaker and your choice should not be influenced by your weapon.

[GardenGnome78]

You have to remember though - a Poleaxe spec warrior gets 5% more crit when using polearms/axes.

[Azain]

I dont agree with that its a matter of which area you are weaker and your choice should not be influenced by your weapon.

i don't think that 1 trinket simply is going to balance your ap vs crit. gems and enchants are largely used for that, also it depends on what you are running with. he said he does 2v2, but is it a pally with might or kings, or a sham with totems? personally mace spec to me is more of a control game, and 80 ap each hit is far more consistent than relying on that 2.5% crit (or w/e it turns out to be). with swords or axes you want burst dps, and you give up consistency to get that. i played axes s1 and swords s2, and its all about burst.

also the way in which you play will affect it. if you have executioner or tend to throw out 1-2 sunders on cloth/leather then you want ap to maximize the damage you do each swing, regardless of crit. if you run mongoose, get crit trinket and crit gems, stack your crit to 40.0+ in arenas to overcome the resilience most people stack in 2v2, and you will still be dealing out good damage with that high crit chance, and in this case the crit makes up for the lack of ap.

[Azain]

You have to remember though - a Poleaxe spec warrior gets 5% more crit when using polearms/axes.

most warriors will not use a poleaxe. the VG (vengeful gladiator) is only a 2.2 speed, aka worthless. also if you are human or orc or any other race that gets expertise bonus for weapons, you will most likely choose one that is in line with that. stacking the crit trinket with the axe will easily land you above 40% crit, a nice stat for dominating 2v2.

only thing i would be interested in seeing is whether that normalized attack power deal is a really big boost on a 2.2 speed, as i believe normalized for a 2h'er is 3.4 (however i strangely remember this being removed from the game in a prior patch? can someone confirm)

[Felix]

Another very important issue not mentioned here?

Does the 1750 total HP boost for 15 secs get affected by MS debuff?

[GardenGnome78]

PoleAxe Specialization = 5% bonus critical chance when using Axes and or Polearms. There is no 'poleaxe' weapon type.. was just the way to summarize the talent as it applies to both. And TONS of warriors have 2h axes in PvP/Arena.. my Arms weapon, for example, is Gorehowl enchanted with Executioner.

I was in an AB with about 7 arms warriors (we were all joking because there was so much plate and like, no healer at all) and all of us, save for one, had a 2H axe. Either Gorehowl, or that BSing one with the eyeball. The oddman out had Stormherald.

[Azain]

yea i didn't mean poleaxe i meant specifically polearm just to clarify. axe is definitely viable, although i went away from it because i felt like resilience was a double nerf to axe spec, in lowering crit and reducing the damage dealt. i suppose that view is skewed given that resilience affects all the same, but a mace war stacking attack power sees much less the resilience nerf than axe, with sword falling in between :/

right now im using s2 sword with mongoose, i plan on using s3 sword with executioner.

[Azain]

Another very important issue not mentioned here?

Does the 1750 total HP boost for 15 secs get affected by MS debuff?

healing reduction effects do not affect the trinket. it operates the same as last stand or life giving gem. grants that amount of hp, both current and max, for that amount of time. after the 15 seconds you lose 1500 hp, and your max hp is lowered by the same. so it would be really nice to get yourself out of execute range, or live an extra second until that heal can land, but like i said before chances are if your in that situation to begin with its just a matter of time :/ and that trinket isn't going to completely swing a match

[Felix]

healing reduction effects do not affect the trinket. it operates the same as last stand or life giving gem. grants that amount of hp, both current and max, for that amount of time. after the 15 seconds you lose 1500 hp, and your max hp is lowered by the same. so it would be really nice to get yourself out of execute range, or live an extra second until that heal can land, but like i said before chances are if your in that situation to begin with its just a matter of time :/ and that trinket isn't going to completely swing a match

True but one aspect that should also be considered is that it affects talents such as Second Wind or Blood Craze. Your SW talent regenerates an incremental 10% of the 1750 (or 175HP) and your BC talent 3% (52.5 HP). They are HoTs but its still something.

[Anaema]

yea i didn't mean poleaxe i meant specifically polearm just to clarify. axe is definitely viable, although i went away from it because i felt like resilience was a double nerf to axe spec, in lowering crit and reducing the damage dealt. i suppose that view is skewed given that resilience affects all the same, but a mace war stacking attack power sees much less the resilience nerf than axe, with sword falling in between :/

right now im using s2 sword with mongoose, i plan on using s3 sword with executioner.

This view drives me insane! Axespec is the only spec that doesn't take a huge nerf to crit because of resilience. Sure much of the extra crit gained is canceled by resil, but it's better than your base crit(untalented crit) reduced by resil.

For example. A warrior has 40% crit with Axespec, and 35% for sword and mace. When resil cancels 4% of that, axe will have 36%, and sword and mace both have 31%. Axe still has increased crit, like it is supposed to.

And reduced crit damage hardly makes a difference if you crit more often.

[insidelane]

The point he's trying to make is that axe spec pretty much relys on crit. Thats the whole idea of the spec. Whereas crits with sword or mace are just a nice bonus.

[Azain]

True but one aspect that should also be considered is that it affects talents such as Second Wind or Blood Craze. Your SW talent regenerates an incremental 10% of the 1750 (or 175HP) and your BC talent 3% (52.5 HP). They are HoTs but its still something.

im not disagreeing with any of what you just said, i was merely answering your question about the functionality of the trinket itself with respect to healing reduction

all warriors should have 2nd wind in pvp, it is our bread and butter skill behind MS/deathwish. however blood craze is a bit iffy, not sure if i would drop the only 3 points i could spare into flurry for another 450 health. its nice against rogues or molten armor procs (but who uses that anymore anyway) and even lock/hunter pets, but i don't think its worth losing the 15% ias of flurry, a huge dps boost.

[Azain]

This view drives me insane! Axespec is the only spec that doesn't take a huge nerf to crit because of resilience. Sure much of the extra crit gained is canceled by resil, but it's better than your base crit(untalented crit) reduced by resil.

For example. A warrior has 40% crit with Axespec, and 35% for sword and mace. When resil cancels 4% of that, axe will have 36%, and sword and mace both have 31%. Axe still has increased crit, like it is supposed to.

And reduced crit damage hardly makes a difference if you crit more often.

totally disagree. i have 400 resil right now as a war, some classes stack to hit the cap, think its 495 or something now. thats in the neighborhood of 25% reduction on crits. even with a relentless meta gem and impale you don't cancel out the reduction of resilience. so yes while i agree axe spec helps to overcome roughly 200 resilience of your target in terms of crit mitigation, it does ZERO to reduce the amount of damage mitigated. armor pierce is the obvious answer to this, where we lose 20% damage on crits but gain 5-7% more base physical damage before the crit in the form of armor pierce.

sword spec you can stack ap, same with mace, and resilience means nothing. obviously it would never happen, but if you have zero crit and 3k ap as a warrior, you would never be affected by resilience, and be white hitting for 1k as opposed to white critting for 1k after that 400 resilience is applied. this is what is currently behind the ap stacking of mace and sword spec warriors. stacking crit is great on cloth where you have executioner and s3 and vindicators and a druid or rogue or someone to lower armor to <300. since the crits are HUGE to begin with, the amount of damage mitigation that resilience would drop it is effectively negated.

i was suggesting that resilience nerfs crits in two ways, chance to crit and mitigation. axe spec only overcomes one of those with respect to the other weapon specs, yet sword and mace are not affected by it.

now if resilience also included a chance to resist stun, fear, root, snare etc etc, then it becomes a whole different arguement, but CC was left out of resilience.

[Felix]

im not disagreeing with any of what you just said, i was merely answering your question about the functionality of the trinket itself with respect to healing reduction

all warriors should have 2nd wind in pvp, it is our bread and butter skill behind MS/deathwish. however blood craze is a bit iffy, not sure if i would drop the only 3 points i could spare into flurry for another 450 health. its nice against rogues or molten armor procs (but who uses that anymore anyway) and even lock/hunter pets, but i don't think its worth losing the 15% ias of flurry, a huge dps boost.

You can have 3/3 BC and 3/5 in Flurry