Warrior: Blood Craze usefulness

[Azain]

I think that in a 33/28 Spec changing stance and not being able to execute is a really big disadvantage though.Improved Execute gives u the ability to instantly change stances and execute.

generally i do not change stances while focusing, except to overpower, where i can execute anyway. if i have a shield on in D stance chances are i wont be executing even if the target is in range, since i dont want to risk myself being taken out.

[Rambobarbq]

i dont ahve sweeping strike for the same reason that never you will see in arena 2 guys next to each other.. in BG SS is good but in arena its worthless.

[Azain]

i dont ahve sweeping strike for the same reason that never you will see in arena 2 guys next to each other.. in BG SS is good but in arena its worthless.

i wouldnt say its worthless, its amazing for killing pets of hunters, locks, and mages alike. especially when you add in something like mocking blow or challenging shout to keep the pet on you. or if a pet and rogue are attacking your druid and the rogue pops evasion, then you just sweeping strikes on the pet, and bang instant 5-6 attacks that cannot be dodged by the rogue, his only choice is to vanish and pull out, giving your druid a few seconds, or just to die.

sweeping strikes is great for that reason, and in my earlier post i meant in general two actual players. also for the same reason (pets) you could get imp cleave, however i dont think pets in arenas warrant having both, and its easier to put 1 pt into SS than 3 into cleave. again just another thing i wish to test at some point.

[Felix]

i wouldnt say its worthless, its amazing for killing pets of hunters, locks, and mages alike. especially when you add in something like mocking blow or challenging shout to keep the pet on you. or if a pet and rogue are attacking your druid and the rogue pops evasion, then you just sweeping strikes on the pet, and bang instant 5-6 attacks that cannot be dodged by the rogue, his only choice is to vanish and pull out, giving your druid a few seconds, or just to die.

sweeping strikes is great for that reason, and in my earlier post i meant in general two actual players. also for the same reason (pets) you could get imp cleave, however i dont think pets in arenas warrant having both, and its easier to put 1 pt into SS than 3 into cleave. again just another thing i wish to test at some point.

So did you get to test 3/3 in Cleave and 3/3 in BC to the expense of 1/5 in CP and 2/2 in Execute?

[Azain]

So did you get to test 3/3 in Cleave and 3/3 in BC to the expense of 1/5 in CP and 2/2 in Execute?

i tested it somewhat in BG's before respec'ing prot to tank heroic arc lol. but BG's its hard to tell because when a mage pyros me for 3800 then i turn around and MS him for 4200, its hard to gauge what the numbers really mean lol. i will tell you imp cleave is noticeable in terms of damage increase in BG's, so i imagine it would be the same in arenas with a slightly lesser effect, and the BC is always nice, and tends to counter the 140 hp you would be losing for not having CP. on the whole im going to stick with what i had said earlier, CP for 5v5 as it buffs more people, BC elsewhere. imp cleave vs imp execute is a personal decision dependent largely on your playstyle, but i think im leaning towards imp cleave for now.

[Felix]

i tested it somewhat in BG's before respec'ing prot to tank heroic arc lol. but BG's its hard to tell because when a mage pyros me for 3800 then i turn around and MS him for 4200, its hard to gauge what the numbers really mean lol. i will tell you imp cleave is noticeable in terms of damage increase in BG's, so i imagine it would be the same in arenas with a slightly lesser effect, and the BC is always nice, and tends to counter the 140 hp you would be losing for not having CP. on the whole im going to stick with what i had said earlier, CP for 5v5 as it buffs more people, BC elsewhere. imp cleave vs imp execute is a personal decision dependent largely on your playstyle, but i think im leaning towards imp cleave for now.

omg a lot of respecs.

btw What do you think about Resto Druid+Warr+Rogue (In absence of the lock in case he is offline) in 3v3? I know BoP is a problem but if lock is offline and u need to play what else can you do?

[Azain]

omg a lot of respecs.

btw What do you think about Resto Druid+Warr+Rogue (In absence of the lock in case he is offline) in 3v3? I know BoP is a problem but if lock is offline and u need to play what else can you do?

well its kinda like you said if you NEED to play, but assuming bop is a problem also means your pally can bubble out of blind or fear to heal, your only two real CC's. then of course if you want to cyclone something you have two dps on you :/

im not saying it cant work, as there is a druid/war/war combo which is ahead of us in 3v3, so as always, any combo can work, just will be harder for you to play :/

[Felix]

Btw I like Improved Cleave it gives a lot of dmg boost especially when Flurry is up it goes more often. Though its to the expense of execute.

[Felix]

So what do you think about 3/3 Cleave Azain? I guess you had sometime to test it these days?

[Sulika]

I know and you know how much this is? its 84 more damage with 3/3 Cleave on top of its 70 with 0/3 cleave. You know how much 84 more dmg is AP equivalent? Its 308 more AP and you dont think its good? And in total, Cleave with Improved Cleave produces 184 more dmg which is an equivalent of 675 more AP. You think it is negligible?

So you can have 308 extra attack power on one ability that you rarely use, or put the same three points into commanding presence and get an extra 46 attack power on every attack you make and give the same extra attack power to everyone in your team as well. I would take something that buffs all my white damage, mortal strikes and whirlwinds over something that just buffs one attack that is relatively seldom used any day.

i tested it somewhat in BG's before respec'ing prot to tank heroic arc lol. but BG's its hard to tell because when a mage pyros me for 3800 then i turn around and MS him for 4200, its hard to gauge what the numbers really mean lol. i will tell you imp cleave is noticeable in terms of damage increase in BG's, so i imagine it would be the same in arenas with a slightly lesser effect, and the BC is always nice, and tends to counter the 140 hp you would be losing for not having CP. on the whole im going to stick with what i had said earlier, CP for 5v5 as it buffs more people, BC elsewhere. imp cleave vs imp execute is a personal decision dependent largely on your playstyle, but i think im leaning towards imp cleave for now.

4200 MS? A naked mage pyrod you for 3800 while you had zerker buff and enrage? Nerf mages.

[Felix]

So you can have 308 extra attack power on one ability that you rarely use, or put the same three points into commanding presence and get an extra 46 attack power on every attack you make and give the same extra attack power to everyone in your team as well. I would take something that buffs all my white damage, mortal strikes and whirlwinds over something that just buffs one attack that is relatively seldom used any day.

4200 MS? A naked mage pyrod you for 3800 while you had zerker buff and enrage? Nerf mages.

Well I use Cleave pretty often and with a 33/28 build u can hit more often with it. The problem with CP is that it expires every 2-3 minutes and u really do have to rebuff and as for AP most of the team members do not need AP but they need the HP life in which case a re-buff does not heal you.

[Azain]

so i did some messing around last night in BG's and arenas, and have decided on the following tweaks to the standard spec:

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LV0xbIbogbzbZVVzuMxRc

i went 2/3 imp hamstring to test it out, and when it does proc its quite nice in keeping my target from getting away when i get CC'd, such as frost nova or scatter shot. 2/3 seemed enough since i do tend to spam it fairly often.

3/3 BC for the reasons stated throughout this thread, when it is up with 2nd wind and im not the main target, the ~400 hp from both is quite nice. losing 3 pts into CP is something, but i dunno if that 165 hp or w/e it is will really make a huge difference, we had some close games but dunno overall if it would have swung the match.

i was originally spec'd for 3/3 cleave in favor of execute and CP, but actually reverted to imp execute as i found myself "forcing" cleaves and avoiding executes. perhaps it was all this forum discussion in my head or the awareness of wanting to prove my spec, either way after a few games i decided that it was a mental thing lol. while i did get a fair amount of cleaves off, some with SS up, and they did some nice damage to multiple targets, always a problem for healers, i went back to execute, and even if i play my stingy only execute at 5-10% style, at least i know in that 5-10% i getting the bonus.

i think overall this is going to be my spec for 2v2 and 3v3 indefinitely, might change it up for 5v5 this weekend and i will post if it is anything significant.

[Azain]

Well I use Cleave pretty often and with a 33/28 build u can hit more often with it. The problem with CP is that it expires every 2-3 minutes and u really do have to rebuff and as for AP most of the team members do not need AP but they need the HP life in which case a re-buff does not heal you.

agreed on that point, its great in ruins to get the command on your healers/casters and battle on others, but how often can you really refresh it to everyone equally while the arena is happening? this isnt the typical kara or other pve raid where you can all run together real quick for shouts.

when the battle is getting crazy chances are as our druid is running through us for hamstring or piercing howl spam, or perhaps a cleanse/freedom from the pally. he could pick up a battle shout in that time, maybe even overwriting the previous command. the same holds true for other who get oor of shouts. i think in 2v2 and 3v3 CP is strictly a personal buff, and i dont know if i favor it over BC, but perhaps 10% more ap is worth it over 2/2 execute, and it would be better to just load up that tier of the tree.

[Felix]

so i did some messing around last night in BG's and arenas, and have decided on the following tweaks to the standard spec:

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LV0xbIbogbzbZVVzuMxRc

i went 2/3 imp hamstring to test it out, and when it does proc its quite nice in keeping my target from getting away when i get CC'd, such as frost nova or scatter shot. 2/3 seemed enough since i do tend to spam it fairly often.

3/3 BC for the reasons stated throughout this thread, when it is up with 2nd wind and im not the main target, the ~400 hp from both is quite nice. losing 3 pts into CP is something, but i dunno if that 165 hp or w/e it is will really make a huge difference, we had some close games but dunno overall if it would have swung the match.

i was originally spec'd for 3/3 cleave in favor of execute and CP, but actually reverted to imp execute as i found myself "forcing" cleaves and avoiding executes. perhaps it was all this forum discussion in my head or the awareness of wanting to prove my spec, either way after a few games i decided that it was a mental thing lol. while i did get a fair amount of cleaves off, some with SS up, and they did some nice damage to multiple targets, always a problem for healers, i went back to execute, and even if i play my stingy only execute at 5-10% style, at least i know in that 5-10% i getting the bonus.

i think overall this is going to be my spec for 2v2 and 3v3 indefinitely, might change it up for 5v5 this weekend and i will post if it is anything significant.

Well I do think that 2/2 in Execute may be an option and Cleave is nice and what you could do is just remove altogether 1/5 CP and instead place it in 1/3 Cleave (still gives u +40% which is nice =28 more dmg an equivalent to 103AP) and 2/2 in Execute instead of 3/3 In Cleave and 0/5 CP and 0/2 Execute. BUt I must say that with UW up I didnt have lack of rage for executes.

[Rambobarbq]

those are ncie in bg but in arena you dont want those skill unless you 5vs5.

im specced only for 2vs2 and i dont need these sicne you will never hit 2 target at the same time.

no SS, no imp cleave, no imp bloodcraze.. it suck for 2vs2

[Azain]

those are ncie in bg but in arena you dont want those skill unless you 5vs5.

im specced only for 2vs2 and i dont need these sicne you will never hit 2 target at the same time.

no SS, no imp cleave, no imp bloodcraze.. it suck for 2vs2

i disagree with ss, for 1 point its well worth it when you consider how easy it becomes to drop pets on a warlock hunter or mage. or likewise if something is attacking you and you get off an imp hamstring on our target, chances are you can use ss then.

for 1 point its def worth it, or at least thats imo.

[Felix]

so i did some messing around last night in BG's and arenas, and have decided on the following tweaks to the standard spec:

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LV0xbIbogbzbZVVzuMxRc

i went 2/3 imp hamstring to test it out, and when it does proc its quite nice in keeping my target from getting away when i get CC'd, such as frost nova or scatter shot. 2/3 seemed enough since i do tend to spam it fairly often.

3/3 BC for the reasons stated throughout this thread, when it is up with 2nd wind and im not the main target, the ~400 hp from both is quite nice. losing 3 pts into CP is something, but i dunno if that 165 hp or w/e it is will really make a huge difference, we had some close games but dunno overall if it would have swung the match.

i was originally spec'd for 3/3 cleave in favor of execute and CP, but actually reverted to imp execute as i found myself "forcing" cleaves and avoiding executes. perhaps it was all this forum discussion in my head or the awareness of wanting to prove my spec, either way after a few games i decided that it was a mental thing lol. while i did get a fair amount of cleaves off, some with SS up, and they did some nice damage to multiple targets, always a problem for healers, i went back to execute, and even if i play my stingy only execute at 5-10% style, at least i know in that 5-10% i getting the bonus.

i think overall this is going to be my spec for 2v2 and 3v3 indefinitely, might change it up for 5v5 this weekend and i will post if it is anything significant.

AM is a very good talent Azain

[Rambobarbq]

i disagree with ss, for 1 point its well worth it when you consider how easy it becomes to drop pets on a warlock hunter or mage. or likewise if something is attacking you and you get off an imp hamstring on our target, chances are you can use ss then.

for 1 point its def worth it, or at least thats imo.

20 rage- pricey, it hit the other target only if its close.. tell me if a warlock stay clsoe to his pet and then we will talk again.. seriously are you taht THEORYCRAFT taht you cant understand it on the gamefield ?

SS = crap for 2vs2 good for 5vs5 if theres multiple melee in the group you face.

all i say is im focussing on 2vs2 and its not great and not that GREAT in 5vs5 either never 2 healer will stick next to each other

[Azain]

20 rage- pricey, it hit the other target only if its close.. tell me if a warlock stay clsoe to his pet and then we will talk again.. seriously are you taht THEORYCRAFT taht you cant understand it on the gamefield ?

SS = crap for 2vs2 good for 5vs5 if theres multiple melee in the group you face.

all i say is im focussing on 2vs2 and its not great and not that GREAT in 5vs5 either never 2 healer will stick next to each other

first of all thats a lot of hate, and no i am not "that theorycraft", but since you decided to take the tone.

have you ever NOT charged the warlock first? have you ever heard of mocking blow and ae taunt?!

charge the warlock, pop SS. mocking blow the pet, attack the warlock. if the pet leaves ae taunt it, if not continue to kill it. most healers will heal their warlock before the pet, 4-6 seconds later, bang pet is dead. so yes it is incredibly practical in any arena where there is a pet, not just warlocks either, this includes hunters mages and even priests, shadowfiends have a high rate of dodge and resist, but they cannot dodge attacks which are put on by sweeping strikes, its the same principle when killing an evasion rogue (something that you apparently also missed). when was the last time a mage popped his ele, and instead of going for the shatter combo actually ran away from the ele to avoid sweeping strikes. chances are rare, just another reason to have that 1 singular point into SS.

you also forgot to mention 3v3, what is your opinion there. and as for 5v5 who says it has to be two healers standing next to each other? anytime you can double your damage against any target(s) it is worthwhile. and the same thing applies in 3v3 and 5v5 about pets where your chances of running into a pet are greater. are you telling me you have never taunted a pet off your healer to allow them to get off a heal or kite?

forums are great for theorycraft yes, and much of what we do here is that, but it is based on things tested in the game, or ideas generated as a solution to a particular play style found inside the game. also since you have chosen to be the big man when it comes to warriors and specs laying everything down with such a definitive nature, perhaps an armory link to your gear or arena teams? as a bit of proof that you as well do things on the battlefield as you like to say...

fyi i do mostly 2v2 and 3v3 and have found it incredibly useful in both for 3 seasons running now...but perhaps this is just a matter of opinion.

[Rambobarbq]

first of all thats a lot of hate, and no i am not "that theorycraft", but since you decided to take the tone.

have you ever NOT charged the warlock first? have you ever heard of mocking blow and ae taunt?!

charge the warlock, pop SS. mocking blow the pet, attack the warlock. if the pet leaves ae taunt it, if not continue to kill it. most healers will heal their warlock before the pet, 4-6 seconds later, bang pet is dead. so yes it is incredibly practical in any arena where there is a pet, not just warlocks either, this includes hunters mages and even priests, shadowfiends have a high rate of dodge and resist, but they cannot dodge attacks which are put on by sweeping strikes, its the same principle when killing an evasion rogue (something that you apparently also missed). when was the last time a mage popped his ele, and instead of going for the shatter combo actually ran away from the ele to avoid sweeping strikes. chances are rare, just another reason to have that 1 singular point into SS.

you also forgot to mention 3v3, what is your opinion there. and as for 5v5 who says it has to be two healers standing next to each other? anytime you can double your damage against any target(s) it is worthwhile. and the same thing applies in 3v3 and 5v5 about pets where your chances of running into a pet are greater. are you telling me you have never taunted a pet off your healer to allow them to get off a heal or kite?

forums are great for theorycraft yes, and much of what we do here is that, but it is based on things tested in the game, or ideas generated as a solution to a particular play style found inside the game. also since you have chosen to be the big man when it comes to warriors and specs laying everything down with such a definitive nature, perhaps an armory link to your gear or arena teams? as a bit of proof that you as well do things on the battlefield as you like to say...

fyi i do mostly 2v2 and 3v3 and have found it incredibly useful in both for 3 seasons running now...but perhaps this is just a matter of opinion.

again theorycraft that doesnt work in the game. What if you dont get the charge. What if the warlock send is pet on your healer right at the start.. and isnt in a mocking blow, aoe tuant range..

thsoe happen so often that its worthless in my opinion.

the mage will never be clsoe to his elemental sicne elemental most of the time will stay where they appear and the mage wont. a good mage will summon it right during the shatter combo not early before or after.

on 3vs3 i dont find it useful sicne ppl want 1 melee. and 1 caster most of the time since you got to deal with BoP and other stuff.

a pet isnt a mobs soon as the taunt finish its no longer on you can you drop one with a inital charge (rage went for mocking blow) and then zerker stance (10 rage or more left depend your spec). while you need to pop a 20 rage talent and hit/ms the pet to get the warlock too... i dont know but its something i wont waste point for.