Every piece of current season gear...

[Ordin]

I didn't say "large", I said "significant". Does a warrior with a season 3 weapon hit harder than a warrior with a season 2 weapon? Yes, he certainly does.

In a warrior+druid vs warrior+druid mirror match, could the ~30 extra top end damage make a difference in the game? Sure it could. Is it enough to give a player a slight edge in an otherwise equal match? Sure. Can you overcome the gear difference with superior skill, of course you can.

I still believe that the queue times for 2v2 is a bigger barrier to get a decent rating than any gear gap you could have, but it isn't something that can be totally ignored.

I don't think that rewarding "top" players with better items so that they get a statistical advantage over people with less skill is a good model to promote everyone to participate in the arena. You are better off giving out cosmetic rewards that do not directly impact game play. There is a lot that can be done to reward those with better rank, and I understand the desire to stand out from the crowd and be recognized for your accomplishments, but I don't think Blizzard wants to create a "haves and have-nots" split when it comes to pvp gear.

[Omn]

Sorry, i didn't take the time to read the entire debate, only the first 5 posts or so.

Wow is a game for communists. Everyone has their 15 minutes of epax.

Imho a lot of items have just gotten too easy to get, the word "epic" is meaningless. Back prebc, epics meant more. It's not like that a guy with 2 pieces of tier1 was "godlike", but people who had the marshall gear was pretty badass, because you could see they worked hard for it. Perhaps they weren't all that good, but most of the grand marshalls i knew were. Becoming a grand marshall didn't take a lot of skill, but a lot of time. Skill ofcourse made it easier for you, since you could get in better premades. Now a days, peeps who suck, simply put, and do not put in a lot of effort, will get almost the same out of it as a guy who is really good at his job, AND uses a lot of time (or doesn't, it varies ofcourse )

Point is, now it takes neither time or skill. Before WoWnilla was made, blizzard advertised with such things as "If you're good, you don't need to use that much time on stuff" - which was total bullclap, as things has shown. The pros had to use more time, to farm stuff. PVE still takes a lot of time to prove that you're good, pvp doesn't anymore -gearwise, that is. If a guy has tier6, no matter the guild almost - and he isn't an ebayer - you know that this guy is most likely skilled, ofcourse there are newbs who have been carried to the top, but i guess that is miniscule. On the other hand, if a guy is wearing s3.. Who cares? Those epics are given away more often than Oprah bores someone.

in WoWnilla, imho the item distribution was fair. Most of the time i had only a moderate amount of epics (mostly MC and ZG items) and i worked my way up to naxx and through half of it, and i felt that i was improving since my gear was scaling with my experience and my progress. In PvP that doesn't happen. Your skill often does not scale with gear in Arena, since the epics are handed to you even how badly you are doing, you do not actually FEEL that you are failing at what you do. Gargh, i'm babbling.

To sum up my communist thingie, if i had studied hard all my life to be a doctor, and i earned the same amount of cash as a janitor, i'd be rather pissed. (if i were in it only for the money ofcourse). And this is what wow is doing. People are getting almost the same out of their very different work efforts.

But, wow is made as a catch-all game. It is not in their interest to divide the pros and the newbs any further than it already is.
Blaming wow for giving away free epics is like blaming "Hello Kitty Island Adventure, Torp Edition" for being too childish and demasculating. WoW is about catchall, we have to deal with it. Even though it has taken a turn for the worse :/

Gargh, noone will read this poorly written wall of lame text :/

[Ordin]

It is not in their interest to divide the pros and the newbs any further than it already is.

/agree

pre-BC raiders would steam-roll non-raiders with their uber epic loot and only the most insanely hardcore pvper that literally had to spend 14+ hours a day in battlegrounds could ever hope to get the top end pvp gear. This method of itemization appealed only to a minority of the people playing the game.

Now you can get epics everywhere. You can craft them, you can get them with reputation grinding, you can get them honor grinding, doing arena, 5 man heroics, or raiding. Everyone has the opportunity to "epic out" their character and there is gear available to fit every play style.

The only complaint I have with the current system is that pvp gear is only obtained through honor grinding and arena pvp (with the exception of the badge cloak and trinket and a few tailoring pieces for cloth wearers). I wish there were as many options for pvp gear as there are for pve gear. Even if it isn't as good as what is available through honor/arena points, I like having options.

I don't play games to become famous. I don't care if other people know who I am or how good I am at a game. I play to be the best I can be and to improve my skill and have fun competing against others.

[frodo]

I had no problem with pre-BC raiding and the way epics were dealt out then. I am a casual, bordering hardcore (if I had time, I have a job which I work 55+ hours a week normally). In other words, I would be hardcore if I had more time

Anyway, we never got past Nef in BWL... but BGs were still very fun for us, we would roll AQ40 and Naxx alliance guilds all the time. Our guild was known for our excellent pvpers, who could overcome odds and still come out victorious. The reason we raided then, was to get the gear to pvp, and we just didn't have the time (we raided 2 days a week, for 3 hours at a time) to get to the upper Echelons of PvE content. To say that those guys were skilled is hearsay.. They just had more time.

New WoW really doesn't do it for me anymore. PvE is all but dead on our server. We didn't have many top guilds in the first place, but with the release of S3 gear that is better/on par with SSC loot, it just doesn't make sense for about 80% of the player base on our server to raid for subpar loot. Everyone just pvps nowadays.

A rating requirement on every piece of loot would make me quit the game, I'll be honest. I don't raid anymore, so PvPing is really all I do now. My ratings stink, but that's because I'd rather play with friends than some random Joe (they aren't very geared yet, but that's ok), because that's really all that's left in this game. It is hard enough trying to compete in s1 gear against people that saved from s2 and now have 4 or 5 pcs of s3, but to not even allow me to catch up? Yea..

The day they introduce full rating requirements is the day I shut it down.

[CreativeInstitute]

Um... duh? Once again people who don't read posts; welcome to the topic, here we're discussing why mediocre players shouldn't get the very best equipment in the game for their chosen field.

I'll pass, but feel free to get out of the topic, since it seems to be offending you

Haha, I'm being offended? You and the other guys are the ones who are having heart attacks because mediocre players have the same elite gear you do. I couldn't care less if anyone has the same gear as me.

Again as I've said before:

"The problem here is that you're taking this game too seriously.

It is just a game, and if you see it as anything more than that, then I think you need re-evaluate what's important in your life."

Getting worked up about people having the same polygon textured gear as you....do you realise how stupid that is?


EDIT: Actually, you know what? I'll add fuel to the fire: All arena gear and weapons should only be attainable once you have a 2500 personal and team rating.

How does that sound now? Well then I guess if you're not in a team with that rating then you're a scrub, need to gtfo and l2p.

Sound fair?

[Cynadra]

Doesn't really bother me because when it comes down to it and the full S3, gorehowl wearing guy comes up and inspects me and see's that my "S3" gear is acually T6, it's way more satisfying.

[Azain]

EDIT: Actually, you know what? I'll add fuel to the fire: All arena gear and weapons should only be attainable once you have a 2500 personal and team rating.

How does that sound now? Well then I guess if you're not in a team with that rating then you're a scrub, need to gtfo and l2p.

Sound fair?

QFT, as long as there was no ceiling for arena points. then only people who deserve the gear would get it, arenas would pick up exponentially to account for inflation of teams needed to reach 2500, totally agreed, though i doubt my sarcasm even remotely matched your level :/

[Utal]

Whats wrong with people who work in the arenas, are a bit poop at them, but still keep trying and then get good gear?

So what if someone has got a bit of S3 gear and you have too, your going to have the full set and the weapon, they are not, the items are not totally 'free' they still ahve to take some time to actually get them.