No rating requirement on S4 shoulders?

[Azain]

if the rating requirement was taken off everything then you'll get pve'ers running around with full s4 too :s
every class can still get 2k rating, it doesnt have to be 2v2 all the time, shamans are not so good in 2v2 and 3v3, so just go 2k on 5v5, every class has a way to get 2k, the only class in my opinion that can get it much easier than the rest at present are resto druids which will probably change next patch with the nerfs.

resto druid are best in 2s and 3s, but the higher 5s teams feature pally/priest or pally/sham, druids rarely crack 2 healer teams, and never single healer teams, because HoTs simply can't outheal the burst damage a target takes.

[bloodsong]

the problem should be starting to fix itself from what i have heard. it comes down to this really... 2 good, well geared players make a 2v2 team. they bring in 2 alts as subs on the team. they lose 20 matches with the alts. then win back the matches with their mains. the matching system goes based on team rating currently so going into a match with full s3 against at 1300 rating will pit them against low team rated teams... win 20 matches (or whatever) against weak teams and new players and poof... personal rating for rating locked gear.

blizz supposedly ( i dont have a link) is going to add personal rating into calculations for team matching to help curb this type of activity. i personally think its sad that people do this.

adding rating to all items will not work because of the way that people exploit the system. if you are a new player and just started to arena and have pvp purples and some pve blues or even raid purples, and go against a full s3 geared team, you are not going to win. no matter your skill. if you need rating to get the gear, you will never be able to advance to a point where you can be competetive. adding rating to be able to use the gear will not work either just like it did not in the old honor system. the only benefit is there is no decay mentioned in this thread like the original honor system. people would stop going into arena if having a bad day or losing a partner and trying to break in a new one (in any 2v2 3v3 or 5v5 setting) could result in no longer being able to use a piece of gear.

the problem really sits with the matching system and personal rating currently not impacting it. "fair" arena play would be brackets like 1300-1500, 1500-1700, etc etc. the problem with that is the vast majority of people are in the lower blackets. high rated teams would wait hours for matches. its bad enough waiting as it is. if you had to wait for 30 minutes to get a match you would be waiting full time just to make 10 a week while you could not queue for some repetetive BG action. so the blackets would have to be larger but again you run into gear mis-match.

its all a hard beast to balance but adding personal rating into the match making calculations will hopefully help... /lol like it helped in BGs vs premades.

[Azain]

@ bloodsong. correct that is how PR boosting works, however you get very little rating sub 1500. so most of PR boosting is done in the 1500-1850 range, makes it a bit harder for weaker teams to do it.

also personal rating as the determining factor for arena matchmaking is fine if done properly. this could mean several things: personal ratings stick with you from team to team, or bracket to bracket. your alts or boostees still lose 3 games at the 2000 range, and your mains win it right back up anyway, essentially still getting them the points for the week. team rating change will be based on personal rating. a 1550 team playing against a 2200 team (where the 1550 boosters have 2200 pr) will still result in 15 pts won or lost, not a rating change of ...

if that is the case that ALL your games result in ..., then it becomes impossible for higher rated players to remake new teams, or help their friends. for instance if i wanted to play some sill off combo like bm hunter/ms war/resto sham because the hunter and sham are my friends, my 2200 personal rating is going to get our team into some matches that our combo itself can never win. even though together we are an 1800-1900 team steady, we stand no chance of surviving higher in the bracket.

so am i now not allowed to play with my friends, because my rating is higher? or does this also mean that if im on a 2300 team and someone on a 1500 team with a 2300 rating queues, i can farm that 1500 team for 15 points per match. i could see a lot of exploiting and match fixing coming if it goes that way.

lastly, what if all of us at 2200 rating just lose games on some random team, down to 2k personal, and then farm our way back up to 2200 personal rating while boosting. i fail to see how some of the things blizzard has proposed are really going to make a difference in the grand scheme of things. the easiest way to prevent boosting is what i said a long time ago, 1 arena team quit per bracket per week. at most you can boost 2 teams per week in 3s while getting points from 2s or 5s.

[STIG]

I think that if they put arena requirements on all items it will encourage those noobs to cheat their arena rating up, at least it happens alot on my server,
So I think the arena ratings are a bad thing, should just make them cost way more arena points to buy.

[Azain]

I think that if they put arena requirements on all items it will encourage those noobs to cheat their arena rating up, at least it happens alot on my server,
So I think the arena ratings are a bad thing, should just make them cost way more arena points to buy.

more points wouldn't be a bad idea, it would stop people from saving 5k points and thus less QQ from the pve side. but then people getting 300 points a week would get even less gear, and wouldn't be so inclined to do arenas.

however having them cost more isn't going to curb boosting any more than rating requirements would.

[STIG]

more points wouldn't be a bad idea, it would stop people from saving 5k points and thus less QQ from the pve side. but then people getting 300 points a week would get even less gear, and wouldn't be so inclined to do arenas.

however having them cost more isn't going to curb boosting any more than rating requirements would.

True, but there seems to be no other way, other than stalling the process.
and people who get 300 points a week wouldn't need S4 gear anyway, because they obviously aren't that serious about the arena if only getting that much points.

[bloodsong]

*nods to Azain*

it really does prove to be a problem with some hard choices left to "balance" pvp. my team ratings all suck because i go in with new pvpers or just bad classes for pvp and groups because i like playing with my friends. they do fine grinding honor and want to try arena i say go ahead. we get a beating regardless of my gear or skill. they give up soon after or learn to play arena better. in the end, they get the skills and get a piece or two and are happy.

i personally do see why all the whining about non-elite pvpers getting purples. it has no impact on my game. i have a level of skill that results in me winning most "even" matches... there are people better than me with their skill and lesser gear that win... there are many people with "better" gear that get owned.

i have always been of the opinion that gear helps alot, but skill will help you more. i think they should leave the rating req. on shoulders and weapon for s3 but put rating req. on two other pieces for season4. that way s3 weapons and shoulders stay as a badge of achievement and s4 will have two other badges. make it chest and make new cloaks and give them some "effect" so you know when you see someone wearing one that they put the time in to get it and they just might have earned it.

*salute*

[Azain]

i'm not looking for any special gear that separates me from anyone else

people getting 300 pts a week still deserve something, unless you make it so teams below 1500 rating don't get points at all, but its silly to award points and not let you use them. thats like dishing out t6 tokens but not having a vendor to turn them into until you down a boss later in the instance.

but shoulders to me aren't that special, if anything they should be 1850 and weapon 2k, or possibly instead of rating scale it according to ranking, where you have to be in the top 100 to buy the weapon, to 200 for shoulders etc (% could also be used, again for the smaller battlegroups). weaker battlegroups have teams that must be in the top 5 to break 2000 when other battlegroups have 200 teams above 2k. so in that sense as well it seems silly. your going to get your gear quicker on inflated battlegroups, its the reason they reach 2700 at the end of a season where the highest rank elsewhere is 2450.

but like i said limiting amount of teams you can leave/join in a single week will put a definite limit on boosting, and as a result force people to actually work for their ratings, instead of using daily quest money to buy points/rating. while i love the money i make boosting, as a matter of principle i wouldn't be disappointed to see it fixed properly.