New form of greifing. What are your thoughts?

[aneon]

I posted this on the WoW forums, and I am interested in alot of your thoughts. I read alot of posts here, and it seems like the majority of the posters give intelligent, and helpful answers. So here it is:

Im sure many of you have experienced this recently with all the new changes to how raids work. In kara tonight we got up to curator and a few ppl had to leave the party. So we get a few new people, and one ended up being a hunter in greens. Well that was no problem, we attack the first mob as the newly reformed group, and the hunter just melees.

To make a long story short, we kicked the hunter, so the group I was in could Invite a guildie that came in. We were nice about it, not being jerks or anything. Thanks to the new changes with instance saving, the hunter stayed in the instance to block another person from entering. He tried to blackmail us, saying if we gave him 50gold he would hearth. I submitted a ticket, to get this guy out, so we could get the guldie in. The GM contacted me and said there was nothing he could do, and that he was saved to the instance, it was his right to stay in there.

WTF blizz, honestly. You dont even have to kill a boss to be saved to an instance anymore, the rez timer is gone now, so even if we wiped to attempt to kill him, he could still stay in. Im sorry but this policy is absolutely retarded, and there needs to be a system in place to counter-measure this. I dont pay 15 dollars a month so some %@#%!*% can stay in an instance and blackmail me untill he gets 50gold.

[Nevoron]

That sucks. Smart move tho.

[Deleted]

Well, the obvious answer is to not just invite random people you don't know, in greens, into your raid instance?

I'm not being an ass here, but what performance were you expecting from the guy?

Yes, he behaved in an annoying manner. Personally, I'd have gotten the replacement outside ready, invited them and then do something to wipe the raid (including the hunter) then just make sure that everyone else gets back inside before he does.

[Gwaeni]

"You dont even have to kill a boss to be saved to an instance anymore"

This isn't true.Its always been that if one boss is dead and you go inside you're automatically saved.

[aneon]

"You dont even have to kill a boss to be saved to an instance anymore"

This isn't true.Its always been that if one boss is dead and you go inside you're automatically saved.

Yeh maybe I never noticed it before or something, but this has happened twice in the last 2 weeks, and even though i've been playing WoW since launch, i havent had it happen to me up untill that point. The other time I was in MgT and the shaman left group and just stayed in.

[Rizzl]

We had the same in a karazan run with a hunter who suddenly went to the mac donalds and stayed afk shadow melt in the instance :P Tho it was a full guild group and we could easely manage to do all bosses with 9 man and even cleared the whole instance within 3 hours while everyone was basicly in s3 exept the tanks.

[TheUnit]

I'm not being an ass here, but what performance were you expecting from the guy?

I cant fully agree with it. Recently I did full kara run with pug with my alt priest geared in greens/blues and did the same perfomance or even better then s3 geared guys because of my huge raiding experience.

[parkerdj26]

I thought if you were kicked from the group you get hearthed out. Why would that change?

[Thuz]

I thought if you were kicked from the group you get hearthed out.

If you are in a normal dungeon, yes. But not in raiding instances.

[TheUnit]

I thought if you were kicked from the group you get hearthed out. Why would that change?

it works for normal instances but not for raid ones. A few weeks ago our druid in BT was drunk a bit and felt asleep in the middle of raid and we had to wait 'till he gets logged off automatically

[Ghash]

I thought if you were kicked from the group you get hearthed out. Why would that change?

If the hunter entered an instance where a boss was killed (or had been already), it would save him upon downing the boss (or if a boss was already dead when he walked in, it would save him as soon as he entered). Unfortunately, once you are saved to an instance, a couple of things happen:

1. You no longer have a timer when you die to release your spirit. This means that the game still considers you to be in the instance, since your "presence" is still there.

2. You no longer get teleported if you get kicked or leave the group you're in. Since it's a saved instance, you're allowed to go in alone if that's your style (you'd still have to be with a raid group to actually enter, but you could be alone from then on).

I see the reason for no rez-timer (it would suck to die on a boss and have your spirit released before it was over on fights such as Nightbane where it can sometimes take longer to kill), but I suggest that the rez timer is just put at 15 minutes, which is long enough to kill anything in Karazhan even if you're a beginner. If by some weird chance the fight does take more than 15 minutes, just stress to your group not to open the loot window until you have run back. As long as the loot window is initially opened with you present, it will allow you to roll on and receive loot from master loot.

Well, you can't do the "kill the hunter" strat unless he was stupid enough to release along with everyone else, because as soon as he releases the instance is free game for the new guy. And if he didn't release, there would be nothing you could do to make him do so since there is no release timer in a saved instance.

[Elfred]

This is why we have the Armory - so you dont get greenmachine scrubs in Kara Pugs...

Kara is easily pugable, and the average experienced group can carry a couple of undergeared players through most of it, if not all.

I think this is potentially a pretty serious issue... hopefully Blizzard figures out some sort of resolution...

If not, just run with people you know and trust.

[rayvio]

odd that the GM did nothing about it, I would've thought it'd come under harassment. but then again, some of the GMs seem to be far too cautious and if in doubt do nothing rather than ask a supervisor or more experienced GM

[parkerdj26]

odd that the GM did nothing about it, I would've thought it'd come under harassment. but then again, some of the GMs seem to be far too cautious and if in doubt do nothing rather than ask a supervisor or more experienced GM

Come on, lets be honest. Pre-BC GMs were really nice and helpful. Now they're just assholes. They have too many people to deal with and would rather just let problems solve themselves rather than mediate.

[ryx]

Come on, lets be honest. Pre-BC GMs were really nice and helpful. Now they're just assholes. They have too many people to deal with and would rather just let problems solve themselves rather than mediate.

its just as much your instanceID as the hunter's instanceID, if GM would have to kick him from the instance, the hunter could request the same.

[Bramickias]

its just as much your instanceID as the hunter's instanceID, if GM would have to kick him from the instance, the hunter could request the same.

And if all 9 people from the raid request the hunter kicked?
Btw make sure your realm forum got a post stating that event. Assholes like him need to be recognized, especially when they also suck at their class.

[ryx]

does not change that the hunter has the right to be in a instance with his instanceID

[Gyrome]

1. Get a replacement ready
2. get a hunter next to your "friend", everyone else stay waay back.
3. MD your "friend" to a boss, hunter FDs
4. When he dies you kick the "friend", and get in your replacement.

Case solved.. (Not considering the fact that you "friend" was a hunter and could also FD..

[Windywoo]

This is why we have the Armory - so you dont get greenmachine scrubs in Kara Pugs...

Yeah when armoury is working

[SimTex]

Problem is not sovled. The problem is you cannot replace someone in a raid instance as long as they don't leave themself. And it's truely anoying for several reasons.
1) Ass hats like the hunter described here. You can't get rid of them unless they want to logout or heartstone.
2) People going afk, you can't replace them until they automatically logout or if they exit the instance.

I don't see any good reason for not automatic heartstone people when they are kicked from the raid group. If you kick people by accident you still have 1 minute to invite them back, and you are not kicked from the raid group if you log off or your game crashes. Even if you are heartstoned by accident, you can be summoned right back now with the warlock changes.