Flash of Light nerfed?

[Typh00n]

Why are you replying to everyone via different posts, instead of posting all in one..?

[Daedalon]

do some research...ur dumb and this whole thread is now about how stupid u are and ppl making fun of u. please flame it up more. ur emo-ness fuels me

I don't take it personally seeing a person with 5 posts and 2 of them are made to flame me. There is only one person directly flaming here without beeing on topic and thats you. If you find that funny then keep it going ;D

[Daedalon]

Why are you replying to everyone via different posts, instead of posting all in one..?

Because its faster to push the qoute button and then type the answer and push post. If thats not allowed or it irritates you to much to make offtopic post of it - then I can't do much about that.

Now stay on topic if you want to discuss flash of light plz.

[Keelie]

Alright, this was said the second post in or something, but I'll explain it again, just in case.

Spell damage and healing gear is being consolidated into one single stat - Spell POWER. This means that instead of 2k +healing on your character, you'll only have, say 1000.

FoL right now has ~43% coefficient, right? Damage spell coefficients will likely remain the same, while healing spell coefficients will most likely double, or something. So you can't look at the tooltip, the mana cost and healing done by the base spell and say Pallys are getting nerfed. Do the math again, for say 1200-1500 +spell power and bump the coefficient up to something like 80 or 90% and see how mana efficient Pallys might be.

This change is mostly to allow healing and damage caster classes to share gear, and also to switch between DPS and healing without having 2 sets of gear.

Or just wait and see.

EDIT: On that topic, Retribution Paladins should be getting a buff to their healing, since they will have some amounts of spell power for DPS purposes, it will also work doubly as a significant amount of +healing.

[Daedalon]

Alright, this was said the second post in or something, but I'll explain it again, just in case.

Spell damage and healing gear is being consolidated into one single stat - Spell POWER. This means that instead of 2k +healing on your character, you'll only have, say 1000.

FoL right now has ~43% coefficient, right? Damage spell coefficients will likely remain the same, while healing spell coefficients will most likely double, or something. So you can't look at the tooltip, the mana cost and healing done by the base spell and say Pallys are getting nerfed. Do the math again, for say 1200-1500 +spell power and bump the coefficient up to something like 80 or 90% and see how mana efficient Pallys might be.

Or just wait and see.

That does not explain why FOL for Paladins has now been lowered by almost 2 HP healed per mana compared to Priest FOL. Its the same spell - with same time casted. Just diffrent basic healing values. There have been posts in this topic how both crit and haste will make up for it - but both of these issues will not and can not make up for a 2/3 nerf in terms of healing per mana. The simple and obvious answer at this point is that its a direct nerf compared to the FOL for Priests. And if Blizzard wants holy paladins to do something other than spam flash of light in raids - then they need to come up with something cause this socalled new 51 talent is the weakest, most exepensive and shortest ranged healing spell in the entire game atm. And its totally useless in 5 mans cause a) it does not scale well with spell power b) its short ranged c)again - its the most expensive hp/m healing spell in the game.

We are not talking about + healing and +dmg. I think all know that spell power will have diffrent values for those two. That does on the other hand not explain the diffrence in the same basic healing skill FOL beeing changed for one class compared to another class - both in terms of healing done and health per mana. This is why we are talking about FOL beeing nerfed.

Ret palas will ofc get more healing values based on their gear. They will have very high healing raiting for a dmg class. Thats why Blizzard is now increasing mana cost of all Healing pala spells to prevent the rets to become both uber healers and uber dpsers. And aparently they are going to make warriors and ret paladins use same gear. But that is not what the stats on items OR the talents for ret palas are showing. Blizzard is now saying something totally diffrent than what they did just 2 weeks ago on WWI in Paris.

Only one thing can fix this obvious increase in mana per health healed for Holy paladins. And that is to put illumination back to 100% on crit. Thats probably what is coming but will be done l8ter to make the holy palas jump with joy and hide some of the other short comings of the spec just before launch.

[Keelie]

Rank 9 FoL
785-879 (832)
420 mana (2.0 HPM)

Rank 11 Flash Heal
775-2193 (1484)
775 mana (1.9 HPM)

This is what I got, am I misunderstanding something?

I suspect Paladins will (hopefully) remain one of the best single target healers in the game, though the 51 point talent will give them the ability to group heal in clutch situations, it's not supposed to make them the new Shamans. At one of their press conferences, they said they wanted Paladins to remain a simple class. Prepare to continue spamming FoL, I guess.

As for the gear issue, this is just a guess, but I bet plate spell power gear (Paladin gear) will have different itemization than cloth spell power gear - i.e. more crit, but who knows at this point.

I HIGHLY doubt Illumination will ever be back to 100%. It was pretty ridiculous.

I like speculation as much as the next guy, but in the end, we won't be able to say until we play it either near the end of beta or after launch.

EDIT: I find it funny that you're still angry about the Illumination nerf.

[Malediction]

Because its faster to push the qoute button and then type the answer and push post. If thats not allowed or it irritates you to much to make offtopic post of it - then I can't do much about that.

Now stay on topic if you want to discuss flash of light plz.

Wow you're still at it, seriously if you want to go cut your wrists and whine about how you want to quit your class or bla bla bla this i'm going to reroll, go ahead, other people will take your spot. How about you wait right now and SHUT THE FUCK UP. Like I said in a previous post. First week of Beta. QQing at this point is almost as retarded as walking into a restaraunt and yelling about having no food yet, the stuff is obviously not ready yet. Things change, things aren't even released yet, you're not the master of all knowledge of what Blizzard's changes are going to be, you're not the master of how mana is going to work. Its obvious they are trying to change paladins away from spamming one spell. Like they stated about changing the way paladins work for so long (hence the new talents, and how long it took for them to come out). So relax take a chill pill, I think you'll be fine. Look at BC, was there any hybrid class or spec that was so totally screwed over that NO one used it ever? No there wasn't, you'll be fine.

Blizzard is trying to make more healers for people so that they have easier times making groups. So would it make sense that they would "nerf" a class into uselessness like you think so much?

P.S. Stop double/triple posting, makes you look like stupid, and maybe you wouldn't have to if most of the people who posted in here didn't think you were acting like an idiot.

[Daedalon]

Rank 9 FoL
785-879 (832)
420 mana (2.0 HPM)

Rank 11 Flash Heal
775-2193 (1484)
775 mana (1.9 HPM)

This is what I got, am I misunderstanding something?

I suspect Paladins will (hopefully) remain one of the best single target healers in the game, though the 51 point talent will give them the ability to group heal in clutch situations, it's not supposed to make them the new Shamans. At one of their press conferences, they said they wanted Paladins to remain a simple class. Prepare to continue spamming FoL, I guess.

As for the gear issue, this is just a guess, but I bet plate spell power gear (Paladin gear) will have different itemization than cloth spell power gear - i.e. more crit, but who knows at this point.

I HIGHLY doubt Illumination will ever be back to 100%. It was pretty ridiculous.

Its not 775 -2193 for priests

Its 1887-2193 thats 2,45-2,83 healing per mana point

Let me remind you that palas are going from 3,27 - 3,65 in rank 7 up to 1,87-2,09 in rank 9

Lets at least keep the stats correct. Then we can specualte on things based on right information.

[Keelie]

My mistake. Copied the mana cost as the lower heal value.

/shrug

I'm still not as angry about it as you are. Just be patient. Maybe Blizzard wants everyone to make their Paladin Retribution. =D

I can understand comparing it to the Priest spell, but not the earlier ranks of FoL.

EDIT: Also, and this is total speculation on my part - maybe Blizzard wants Paladins to cast both FoL and HL - I haven't done math or anything on. My point is that the game is going to change drastically. Remember the difference between 60 and 70?

[Daedalon]

Wow you're still at it, seriously if you want to go cut your wrists and whine about how you want to quit your class or bla bla bla this i'm going to reroll, go ahead, other people will take your spot. How about you wait right now and SHUT THE FUCK UP. Like I said in a previous post. First week of Beta. QQing at this point is almost as retarded as walking into a restaraunt and yelling about having no food yet, the stuff is obviously not ready yet. Things change, things aren't even released yet, you're not the master of all knowledge of what Blizzard's changes are going to be, you're not the master of how mana is going to work. Its obvious they are trying to change paladins away from spamming one spell. Like they stated about changing the way paladins work for so long (hence the new talents, and how long it took for them to come out). So relax take a chill pill, I think you'll be fine. Look at BC, was there any hybrid class or spec that was so totally screwed over that NO one used it ever? No there wasn't, you'll be fine.

Blizzard is trying to make more healers for people so that they have easier times making groups. So would it make sense that they would "nerf" a class into uselessness like you think so much?

P.S. Stop double/triple posting, makes you look like stupid, and maybe you wouldn't have to if most of the people who posted in here didn't think you were acting like an idiot.

Well - in terms of TBC - Ret paladins got screwed over big time if you didn't notice. From first patch to the last Blizzard tried to improve it but ended up saying it will be fixed in WOTLK... If paladins are not allowed to talk about their class and discuss the matters then Why do we have forums ? I have been correcting ppl here on alot of things they have said that have been absolutly wrong and based on false statements and calculations. If ppl are gonna be talking about the class here then at least they need to know something. Most of the ppl here on the other hand are other specs or other classes just making sure that holy paladins are not allowed to talk about the change in their spec. If you can't take it then just stay away.

I personally do not trust BLizzard in balancing the Paladin class to other classes in terms of same specs. And I also know that they are not listening and talking to paladins at all about these changes. Thats why the official Pala forums have turned into making jokes about Kalgan and posting SEX adds that stay up for 2-3 days (even up to week) without beeing removed. That gives pretty good picture of BLizzard when it comes to paladins.

[Raptorg]

How can the coefficients on two spells with the same casting time be different, Mr. Smarty pants?

talents

the priest's flash heal's coefficient is more powerful then that of flash of light..

tadaaa

[Daedalon]

My mistake. Copied the mana cost as the lower heal value.

/shrug

I'm still not as angry about it as you are. Just be patient. Maybe Blizzard wants everyone to make their Paladin Retribution. =D

I can understand comparing it to the Priest spell, but not the earlier ranks of FoL.

EDIT: Also, and this is total speculation on my part - maybe Blizzard wants Paladins to cast both FoL and HL - I haven't done math or anything on. My point is that the game is going to change drastically. Remember the difference between 60 and 70?

I posted this earlier cause it shows the changes for the 3 spells - Note: this is based on the new FOL rank 7 stats that have BOL merged into it - even tho the value is only 50% of what the BOL was said to be adding to it.

This is heal per mana of FOL for a paladin in WOTLK

FOL rank 7
3,27 - 3,65 healing per mana point
FOL rank 8
1.95 -2,18 healing per mana point
FOL rank 9
1,87-2,09 healng per mana point


Now lets look at FOL for priests

FOL rank 9
2,34-2,72 healing per mana point
FOL rank 10
2,47-2,86 healing per mana point
FOL rank 11
2,45-2,83 healing per mana point

Only based on these numbers we can safely say that Paladins are no longer the most mana efficent class.

[Daedalon]

talents

the priest's flash heal's coefficient is more powerful then that of flash of light..

tadaaa

You base this on what ?

The tadaaa part ?

Palas have talents too but they are the same as before TBC. Same goes for the priests talents. That does not explain the changes between FOL for these two classes.

[Malediction]

Hmm all those Ret pallies in SWP gear must have been illusions then. Oh and by the way master of all coefficients, spells with same casting times can have different coefficients, ever heard of the warlock spell corruption? Yea its base casting time is 2 seconds, but its coefficient is that of an instant cast spell. And like Raptorg said, theres talent to improve the amount of +spell power a spell gets from coefficients, like he was talking about for priests. (hint look at a talent tree for a different class other thans yours for once dipshit, talent based coefficients are EVERYWHERE)

And stop asking what people base their info on till you say what you base yours on? Zomg best epix response eva, screnshauts or prooffs rofls!

[Kavalir]

what I find amusing is that Holy Shock has been buffed (or FoL nerfed) to the point where the mana efficiency of Holy Shock is now better from what I'm looking at off the new spell tool tips on mmo.

Blasts the target with Holy energy, causing 1296 to 1402 Holy damage to an enemy, or 1431 to 1549 healing to an ally.
650 Mana, Instant cast, 20 yd range, 6 sec cooldown

Average 1490 Healing / 650 Mana = 2.29 Healing / 1 Mana

Heals a friendly target for 785 to 879.
1.5 sec cast, 420 Mana, 40 yd range

Average 832 Healing / 420 Mana = 1.69 Healing / 1 Mana

My math maybe off way off, I just took a brief look at them, and it kinda looked funny.

[Daedalon]

Hmm all those Ret pallies in SWP gear must have been illusions then. Oh and by the way master of all coefficients, spells with same casting times can have different coefficients, ever heard of the warlock spell corruption? Yea its base casting time is 2 seconds, but its coefficient is that of an instant cast spell. And like Raptorg said, theres talent to improve the amount of +spell power a spell gets from coefficients, like he was talking about for priests. (hint look at a talent tree for a different class other thans yours for once dipshit, talent based coefficients are EVERYWHERE)

And stop asking what people base their info on till you say what you base yours on? Zomg best epix response eva, screnshauts or prooffs rofls!

Yes - show me screenshots of all those ret pallies in full SWP gear

Next plz !

[Glaphy]

Holy pala's are boring, most of them gone retribution, and if not this, blizzard wants more tanks so nerfing holy tree to achieve this might be a tactical move of blizzard

True, they hate holy palas.. Even tho we should be the "ONLY" healer class after priest..
We are the guardians of light.. Holy warriors.. Keepers of light..


WHERE THE F U C K CAN I SEE THAT AWWSOME HEALING

[stell]

Yes - show me screenshots of all those ret pallies in full SWP gear

Next plz !

Yes Mr here you go..

Check http://www.wowprogress.com/guild/eu/al-akir/DarkStorm and then check my guildmate scorpion. (Currently maintainence there so cant give you a direct link, and armory he uses pvp gear). He has FULL retri swp gear..
Then take a look at this WWS http://wowwebstats.com/knr2afjgbz1uo?s=882-1193
2353 DPS over a 6min fight.
So now just stop posting stuff you dont have a single clue about. Clearly you are just one of the shittiest trolls ever

[Daedalon]

Yes Mr here you go..

Check http://www.wowprogress.com/guild/eu/al-akir/DarkStorm and then check my guildmate scorpion. (Currently maintainence there so cant give you a direct link, and armory he uses pvp gear). He has FULL retri swp gear..
Then take a look at this WWS http://wowwebstats.com/knr2afjgbz1uo?s=882-1193
2353 DPS over a 6min fight.
So now just stop posting stuff you dont have a single clue about. Clearly you are just one of the shittiest trolls ever

Oh - u were the person talking about hand of salvation beeing great for increased dmg in raid ?

Post all the armory links you want. Doesnt change the fact that what you said is wrong. Goes to show that even the hardcores are kinda nubs doesn't it ?

[stell]

Oh - u were the person talking about hand of salvation beeing great for increased dmg in raid ?

Post all the armory links you want. Doesnt change the fact that what you said is wrong. Goes to show that even the hardcores are kinda nubs doesn't it ?

Haha. Check my post again and you'll see i didnt say hand of salvation but talked about salvation in its current state.
Tbh threat seems to be getting a big revamp so actually we dont know shit about it. Apart from you i dont talk about stuff i know nothing about. Bring proper facts before you keep trolling