How is our mana efficiency in wrath? Do we still go oom really fast.
How is our mana efficiency in wrath? Do we still go oom really fast.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cECU4...eadid=2773&p=2
Watch his mana.
i cant see the mana bar even in full screenOriginally Posted by Yvert
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I believe the bug you are refering to is actually the 18k Art of War buffed Seal of Command judgement on a stunned target, which certainly is a bug. 7400 is not too unrealistic for wotlk. I believe they buffed our judgement damage so our mana bar simply drains very quickly and then refills very quickly.Originally Posted by Ugrateful
So efficiency doesnt really matter anymore, if it turns out that way.
same
Do you mean you havent seen the 18k crit? I can provide links to the video and calculations upon request if you want. ^_^Originally Posted by Ugrateful
yes plz do, oh and also can someone answer me if our mana problem has been fixed i cant see his mana in the video.Originally Posted by Moar Pew Pew
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First of all, here is the video of the 17k crit. ^_^Originally Posted by Burori135
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7QKT...eature=related
It happens at about 0:25, its easy to spot. ZOMG BIG NUMBER, and all.
As for the calculations... I couldn't find the original link, but I will post all of the variables.
Max Vengence - 15% Damage bonus
Avenging Wrath - 20%
SoC on a stunned target - 100%
Art of War proc - 100%
Bugged 100% Crit damage bonus combined with Rightous Vengence - 115%
Due to the way damage is calculated in WoW, dont trust your own numbers, I implore you to just trust that the crit is real and these are the reasons why.
The nerf I see coming is simply to make it so Art of War will not stack with stunned target SoC. None the less, we will still see judgments taking a far bigger role in our total damage done, and will be a very, very large portion of our mana regen.
Thanks a lotOriginally Posted by Moar Pew Pew
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been pulling out 15k crits like mad on my BT geared Ret pala, the double damage on jusdements is rather insane, but i like it!
I'm not big on Trinkets and Avenging Wrath not stacking with it. A) Because its still gonna be massive number, and B) It's kind of dodging the issue. The issue is that a 17k monster crit off an instant spell is just not right. Avenging Wrath not stacking may reduce this number significantly, but not enough in my opinion. I believe the intended use for this talent was to be able to take advantage of double Seal of Command damage without relying on stuns, not to create monster numbers that send the opposing faction running for the hills because you can and will rape them. I dont want to see this talent removed either, but the way things are working is a sure fired way of that happening.Originally Posted by Ugrateful
I'm not a Pally hater, I'm a dedicated one who simply plays other classes. If I was on my Shaman being chased by a Ret Bomb under current guide lines of these talents, I'd be in Ghost Wolf faster than you could blink with an army of earth bind totems behind me.
Call me a coward, but this is like trying to fight time; eventually you will die.
If you look at many of the current videos of Ret Paladins you can clearly see the mana bar draining quickly, then refilling just as quickly. So the buff to Judgements of the Wise is not needed. As for resilience reducing the damage, yeah that's what it's there for, but keep in mind that these guys are level 77 running around in out dated gear, not the newest arena or PvE gear. Expect even bigger numbers.Originally Posted by Ugrateful
As for the normalization comments, I said that because that's what blizzard has said! The exact words were, "We are currently working on ways to make Retribution damage feel less random and more controlable." So we can already see Blizz is leaning in my direction.
The point was, that everyone can already see these talents were not meant to stack, it was an oversight that Blizzard is famous for. The goal was to increase the importance of judgements in wotlk, not to LOLONESHOT people. Yeah, yeah, you cant actually one shot, but you can probably instantly kill someone if you time it with your swing timer and then follow it with an instant attack.
This will never make release, and it shouldn't either. The talents are great, but stacking them is obscene.
They have already given us an option regarding Seal of Command with Seal of Blood, so it stands to reason that this would not be the 'starting point' at any point in wotlk. What's our other damage mechanism? Hmm, well I guess that would be Judgements, wouldn't it? Meaning this is the next step for normalization. As for "Why cant Ret Paladins?" Why not fix the problem before it begins? The fact is that in TBC we still brought the hurt, now add 17k crits off instant attacks and we bring the end of WoW. Compared to our damage before 17k is huge, and this isnt even factoring in end game gear differnces in damage. 17k may not seem like a lot to a level 80, but it wont be 17k then. The fact is that simply not letting these effects stack would solve a lot of headaches in the future, and our dps is crazy enough as it is. Seen the Ret paladin PvP beta videos? Those dont factor in ZOMG CRITS and we still are raping face out there. Lets not get greedy.Originally Posted by Ugrateful
As a final note; Yes, Art of War is a chance proc, but you then control when to use it. This also makes set up for the crit much easier. We're fine without this rediculous combination, so why tempt fate into nerfing it into uselessness when all we have to do is give up one big number when we already beat the hell out of things?
If you watch the Ret Paladin videos you see that their mana drains very quickly, then refills quickly. If Judgements of the Wise scales well into level 80 content, which it most likely will, then Mana regen for simply using spells has been solved.Originally Posted by Ugrateful
However, having your mana burned to 0 will make you incapable of judging the target, stopping regen. This is why in the other thread I brought up giving Sancitified Wrath the ability to generate mana like Shamanistic Rage.
As for the Art of War comment, you misunderstood what I said.
From what I have seen so far, when Art of War procs it gives you a buff signaling your next Judgement will cause double damage. All I meant by this is that you could wait for this proc, stun, do monster damage and get phat arena lewts. All I meant by this was that even though this ability wont happen often (about every 40 seconds or so) it wont be once in a blue moon.
What I did NOT mean was that it will crit all the time. I have no idea why this even came up.
This thread is the Great Wall of Text
That actually made me lawl in real life. ^_^Originally Posted by Aetius
This simply isn't true. Seals cannot be dispelled from us if we have them talented. Seals last their full 30 second duration without being consumed upon a judge. Judgement of the "xx" is FREE from mana cost. So if you've got command up, which you're likely to have, what with it having no way of being dispelled and a long duration, you can simply judge the target with wisdom and get a heap of mana back. This didn't cost you anything.However, having your mana burned to 0 will make you incapable of judging the target, stopping regen. This is why in the other thread I brought up giving Sancitified Wrath the ability to generate mana like Shamanistic Rage.
Bare in mind that you could have stoicism from prot reducing the dispel chance of your magical effects on the enemy too, you will most likely be judging every 8 seconds reapplying wisdom to the target. If the target doesn't want wisdom to be there they are going to have to spend quite a lot of time dispelling to guarantee its removal. Not only this but mana burning you to keep you oom. Oh wait judgement crit, boom 2k mana. Requiring more mana burning, oh he's got wisdom judged on himself again. Not to mention the target might want to spam dispel on you to remove your hands.
If the target wants to make sure you are clean from magical buffs AND they are clean from magical debuffs, plus making sure you're oom, they if a priest, are going to have to spend a LOT of time dispelling and mana burning.
I know this wont fix us completely, I am simply pointing out that it might not be as bad as you think and its a lot better then we have it at the moment.
Has the mana cost for casting Judgement been removed?Originally Posted by Borg
I think we all agree it is not itentional to have 17k or 21k judgmenets , but we should have biggest burst of all melee classes no matter what ... arms warriors should never be able to burst more then us couse we dont have interupt and ms and intercept etc. That should be thing we have instead all of that we should have a bit bigger burst then them and that is what i think is given in wotlk ... they should fix art of war ofc but we will still have our 50% cut throught absorbing or reduction effects with new imp AW and so on ... So in pair with enhancement shaman for interutp or/and arms warrior we should make realy good combo now.
I wouldnt be surprised if they want to make retri usable in arenas with high resiliance raitings to keep judgmenets doing 4-5k with art of war proc and keep ignoring 50% of resiliance while AW is active. Couse if they remove AW and make judgmenets do 3k at best then we will again not have use in arenas.
We do have the biggest burst damage lol. If you watch the videos you can see Ret Paladins raping the hell out of both MS and Fury Warriors without the need for heals. I'm personally looking forward to wotlk from every aspect of a Paladin. Yes, Beacon of Light needs some work, and Sheath of Light is a little buggy, but I like the direction each tree is moving towards.Originally Posted by StormScion