Not happy with the moonkin tree yet.

[Deleted]

Why are all our abilities on CD? Kalgan, your an epic fail, stop being so "imba" and add these:

Imped moonkin form. 15 sec CD on 20% haste on crit AND increase the total mana by 5/10/15%.

Typhoon. Make it pushback alot more than just 5 * yards.

Owlkin Frenzy. 15% chance to gain stupid abilities? It should be 75% chance to increase damage by 10% and restore 2% mana in moonkin form...

Eclipse shouldnt have a CD!

Gale winds should increase Cyclone range by 5/10 yards!

Moonkin Form should give the druid spell damage based on the mana, for all loss because of these stupid changes.

Lower the CD on Starfall so we are not forced to heal 90% of the time in arena.

The enrage of feral druids also makes me sad. The trees are * up atm, all thanks to Kalgan. My friend that had hope about dual wielding 2h's are crying now. One hand equiped with a 2h weapon. Go fire Kalgal and hire a kid that has love for balance druids.

[Nydas]

Shut up. The balance tree is looking incredible right now. The only problem i have is its very inflated, though i like most of the new talents. And i have a problem with the fact that Feral has to spec for tanking, or DPS, and cant really get one good spec for both.

[Hooch]

You don't deserve to post on the forums.
The moonkin changes are great

[Deleted]

Not for me, i played moonkin from the day it came. I didnt play s2, but i went 2300 rating s1 with a 2h using shaman. In s3 i was forced to heal heal heal heal to make my team mate survive, which made me quit the druid and roll a mage instead of speccing resto.

I really want the old cyclone range back, and tbh the hurricane pushback is a joke. 5 yards is nothing and the owlkin frenzy seems a little to sucky for me.

Ofc these moonkin changes are great, its like giving Crusader Strike on paladins a 5.9 sec CD, its also cool.
Moonkin love! These spells doesnt make me happy at all, its only the -1 min CD on treants and the increased % damage from it that improve the moonkin..

[Hooch]

2h using shaman

I might just have interpreted what you said wrong, but I'm pretty sure 2h are good up until 1800's and then you have problems. So I find what your saying hard to believe.

[AusSpyder]

I dont see why OP is complaining. As a druid the only moves you will use are rejuvenate and travel form, unless of course your target is ~15% health=

[Loliiten]

I might just have interpreted what you said wrong, but I'm pretty sure 2h are good up until 1800's and then you have problems. So I find what your saying hard to believe.

Remember, he said season 1..

Personally reached 2050'ish rating as blue / epics elemental shaman with an equally geared shadowpriest in season 1, burst was the shitt so 2h shaman and boomkin seems plausible

[Asmo]

Seriously, you aren't drooling over the new Balance tree? It's ridiculously good, with buffs to both PvE damage and utility, and PvP damage and control. I'm not sure what you want from Blizzard, if not an I.W.I.N button on short CD.

Let's address some of your complaints and "suggestions"

Typhoon. Make it pushback alot more than just 5 * yards.

Bah, summon a typhoon and sit in it, it'll be hilarious watching melee creep up to be just on the border trying to hit you while not getting hit with it. Plus the damage on it is insane, 1190 damage at 80 before spell power is factored in.

Owlkin Frenzy. 15% chance to gain stupid abilities? It should be 75% chance to increase damage by 10% and restore 2% mana in moonkin form...

Ah, er, duh. This is a PvP talent. It means you can cast with impunity. Got a pet on you while you're trying to nuke? Well now it doesn't matter. It goes off in exactly the amount of time the tooltip says it will. Barring actual interrupts. Mana regen? Bah. We're gonna have mana spilling out of our ears due to Moonkin form and Omen of Clarity. Get outta here with your mana regen.

Eclipse shouldnt have a CD!

Yes, it should. That or rename it "Chargin up mah lazers" and just have it be a flat increase to the damage/crit of the two spells. They made it a proc to have it scale with gear, decent crit means more uptime. They reward a well geared player rather than throw a bone to every tom, dick, and harry that wants to Moonkin.

Gale winds should increase Cyclone range by 5/10 yards!

It's meh really, Cyclone is again PvP (mostly). It has it's applications in PvE here and there, but 4 yards is enough if you know how to work it.

Moonkin Form should give the druid spell damage based on the mana, for all loss because of these stupid changes.

What even? It already gives 5% crit to raid, Mana return on crit to raid, 20% spell haste on crit to raid, and 4% spell power to you properly specced. It needs more? really?

Lower the CD on Starfall so we are not forced to heal 90% of the time in arena.

Eh, you could lower the CD on starfall, and you could spam it every time it's up, but really, why? You don't see mages running around two's and threes just Arcane exploding for 5 minutes straight, AoE has it's place in arena, but we don't even know if Starfall does great damage, and I'm just stumped on why you think it'll stop you from having to heal in arena's. Or why you spend 90% of your time healing while balance specced. Or what you have against Enrage. Or why your even commenting on balance, since you so obviously just glanced through and wanted to QQ about nothing.

Asmo - Balance since day 1.

[Madus]

New Passive balance talents are joke's (Active too)

Eclipse is retarded and there is no need to max it. (Badly designed)

Gale winds is crap just because it increase effectivity of useless spells,
if there is another increase of cyclone range it should be at least old range 36yards.

Starfall is another "Force of Nature" talent

Typhoon is crap just compare to new mage blast wave
Mage: TIER 5
Blast Wave - Knockback added, now a wave of flame radiates outward from the caster, damaging all enemies caught within the blast for 1047 to 1233 Fire damage, knocking them back and Dazing them for 6 seconds.

Earth and Moon is Best of Best jokes

Druid TIER 10 TALENT
Your Wrath and Starfire spells have a 20/40/60/80/100% chance of applying the Nature's Fury debuff on the target. The Nature's Fury debuff increases Nature and Arcane damage done to the target by 2%. Lasts 12 sec. Stacks up to 3 times.
(5 Ranks)

Mage TIER 4 TALENT
Improved Scorch - More damage types added, now your Scorch spells have a 33/66/100% chance to cause your target to be vulnerable to Fire, Frost and Arcane damage, increasing damage taken by 2/4/6/8/10% and lasts 30 seconds. Stacks up to 5 times.
(3 Ranks)

Result: Lower talent, lower investment, stronger buff, more elements in debuf, longer duration. GJ


They should merge eclipse with earth and moon.
Dreamstate merged with lunar guidance should be tier 10 talent.

[Jussie]

Stop the QQing about Doomkings. The talent tree looks imazingly awesome and is way overpowered as it is now.

There is only problem and that's threat. Since we don't have -% threat (Sublety changed to healing spells only). Rest is the Balance tree is overpowered as it is now.

Be happy we have this:

2 New AoE spells, Starfall (Instant) and Typhoon (with knowback lolwut?).
Moonkin Form has been buffed outrageous, also towards party even more.
Hurricane cooldown removed (remember it was 1min cooldown).
Force of Nature cooldown removed.
We have some badass +damage debuffs now (Earth and Moon, Elemental Shamans/Arcane Mages, hi).

[Madus]

Stop the QQing about Doomkings. The talent tree looks imazingly awesome and is way overpowered as it is now.

There is only problem and that's threat. Since we don't have -% threat (Sublety changed to healing spells only). Rest is the Balance tree is overpowered as it is now.

Be happy we have this:

2 New AoE spells, Starfall (Instant) and Typhoon (with knowback lolwut?).
Moonkin Form has been buffed outrageous, also towards party even more.
Hurricane cooldown removed (remember it was 1min cooldown).
Force of Nature cooldown removed.
We have some badass +damage debuffs now (Earth and Moon, Elemental Shamans/Arcane Mages, hi).

L2READ tooltips maybe??
no threat reduction and cd remove from Force of nature ?

[Jussie]

I ment Force of Nature CD from 3 to 2, my bad :P

Edit: Didn't saw Nature's Reach.

[Milosz006]

QQ one of the 4 druid builds has a talent worse than a pure DPS class. :'( :'( :'( :'(

[Panoramixe]

Moonkin are certainly viable for pve in WoTLK, no way can you deny a raid wouldn't want one. (And one is enough given the amount of specs and the amount of raid spots available.)

Just to sum up some buffs we get from other classes:
CoE affects nature damage (10%, 13% if the lock is talented for it.)
Improved Scorch affects arcane spells now (10% damage boost)
Extra stormstrike charges (hard to put a number on this; need to fight the elemental shaman for these)

Now the buffs we give to the raid and our party:
3% hit for everyone (tanks will love us)
Moonkin aura (the 5% crit is still there)
Improved Moonkin aura (A decent boost to your party, needs some love though)
6% nature and arcane damage for the raid (so elemental shamans, ourselves and arcane mages + a bit for rogues and hunters)

Combine this with the damage boosts we get from our own talents and far better mana regen and we’re certainly worth a raiding spot.

Pvp however is another thing; a pure balance build has potential but lacks the survivability pure classes get. The high-end talents just don’t cut it tbh; this doesn’t mean moonkin won’t be used in pvp though. Restokin will be absurdly powerful, having close to the same healing output as full resto druids combined with some serious burst will make for an interesting spec.
I would love to see a destruction lock + restokin + disc priest in 3vs3, the flexibility would be amazing. (And also cyclone + chaos bolt would be fun when used at the right time.)

[Poofy]

4 words:
TBC - ok
WOTLK - good

[Deleted]

I dont really care what you say the moonkin talents are so damn crap atm its even worser than tier 1 talents. In WOTLK i will be a restokin with treants, no way im choosing those crap talents. Eclipse with 2 min CD is laughable, and melee yd is 5, FIVE, so that * spell should knock back 20 yards, not 5, the cd are extremely long, and even moonfire do more damage.

I dont understand starfall. Some stars falling down an area damaging 300 each under some secs with 3 min CD? Will it follow the target? I am very happy about the thorns buff, but the other talents are crap. Imped moonkin form should increase Intellect the same way the other forms increases buff.

And for gods sake Kalgan, please add some real balance talents so we are not forced to get resto gear again, this is an fail.

Raid uti? Crits should restore 2% mana and increase casting speed by 20% for 8 sec with 15 sec cd, lol. And the feral talent 51 pt one SUCKS! 15 sec immunity CC and a 5 min CD... Kalgan screws up the WOTLK tree with so hard nerfs, shouldnt Kalgan make us happy with the new talents? These talents are not fine, they are crap, you who tell me im failing and qqing should go back to their rogues, because these talents are worthless!

[Panoramixe]

I don’t really care what you say the moonkin talents are so damn crap atm its even worse than tier 1 talents. In WOTLK i will be a restokin with treants, no way am I choosing those crap talents. Eclipse with 2 min CD is laughable, and melee yd is 5, FIVE, so that * spell should knock back 20 yards, not 5, the cd are extremely long, and even moonfire do more damage.

So much crap to answer to …
For starters typhoon does more instant damage than moonfire it seems, about the same if you let the entire dot tick:
Last rank of moonfire:
Burns the enemy for 406 to 476 Arcane damage and then an additional 800 Arcane damage over 12 sec.
745 Mana, 30 yd range, Instant cast
Last rank of Typhoon:
You summon a violent Typhoon that does 1190 nature damage when in contact with hostile targets, knocking them back 5 yards.
1125 mana, 20 yd range, instant cast, 20 sec cooldown

Now Typhoon is instant, is an aoe and has a knock back. Even if the knock back isn’t particularly large it can be awesome if used right. (For example Typhoon > roots/cyclone)

Eclipse is perhaps a bit weak, but can be about an overall 2-3% damage increase I believe I’ve read for one point.

I dont understand starfall. Some stars falling down an area damaging 300 each under some secs with 3 min CD? Will it follow the target? I am very happy about the thorns buff, but the other talents are crap. Imped moonkin form should increase Intellect the same way the other forms increases buff.

Don’t comment on a talent you don’t understand, go do some research first.
20% haste is a lot and will improve our and our party’s damage a lot; buffing intellect wouldn’t quite have the same impact.

And for gods sake Kalgan, please add some real balance talents so we are not forced to get resto gear again, this is an fail.

Real balance talents relate to resto gear how again?
If you meant we’ll be sharing gear with resto druids, then yes we probably will. Due to the Spellpower change we’ll want the same gear more or less.
If you meant resto talents instead of gear, every class needs to get talents from other talent trees to be ideal it’s just how the game works. (Except perhaps our resto tree for raiding)

Raid uti? Crits should restore 2% mana and increase casting speed by 20% for 8 sec with 15 sec cd, lol. And the feral talent 51 pt one SUCKS! 15 sec immunity CC and a 5 min CD... Kalgan screws up the WOTLK tree with so hard nerfs, shouldnt Kalgan make us happy with the new talents? These talents are not fine, they are crap, you who tell me im failing and qqing should go back to their rogues, because these talents are worthless!

Our raid utility:
6% more nature/arcane damage
Moonkin aura: 5% crit for our party
Improved moonkin aura: 20% spell haste a bit less than 50% of the time.
3% hit for the entire raid
-2% hits from the boss (marginal, but there if needed)
Innervate
Combat resurrection

The new buffs we get from other classes in WoTLK:
CoE for nature damage not confirmed yet though.
Improved scorch for 10% more arcane damage.
More stormstrike charges

Now for berserk:
Read the talent again, it doesn’t only remove all cc/slowing but is also a last stand in bear + extra aoe or a big damage boost in cat. Most feral druids agree it’s actually quite a good ability.

[Deleted]

2 moonfire>20 sec CD typhoon.
Noone wants a moonkin for the raid after this. "Bah we dont care about your 20% haste on crit with mega long cooldown, we will pick a survival hunter instead kkthxbye"

You may have the luck to run Karazhan, and you have maybe played a moonkin for a week, but me, gladiator ranked (2300 rating s1, the arena fails now) field marshall druid that have been played moonkin from the start knows that these talents are to weak. I didnt like treants either in TBC- they die in two hits. Blizzard should give us better talents so we can DPS in PvP arena to. Yes there are a few guilds that gonna accept moonkins in WOTLK but the talents are crap, just look at the lower tiers. It gives balance druid strong buffs, but the uper once are so weak!

[Nydas]

2 moonfire>20 sec CD typhoon.
Noone wants a moonkin for the raid after this. "Bah we dont care about your 20% haste on crit with mega long cooldown, we will pick a survival hunter instead kkthxbye"

You may have the luck to run Karazhan, and you have maybe played a moonkin for a week, but me, gladiator ranked (2300 rating s1, the arena fails now) field marshall druid that have been played moonkin from the start knows that these talents are to weak. I didnt like treants either in TBC- they die in two hits. Blizzard should give us better talents so we can DPS in PvP arena to. Yes there are a few guilds that gonna accept moonkins in WOTLK but the talents are crap, just look at the lower tiers. It gives balance druid strong buffs, but the uper once are so weak!

Care to post armory?

[Ravenblade]

What even? It already gives 5% crit to raid, Mana return on crit to raid, 20% spell haste on crit to raid, and 4% spell power to you properly specced. It needs more? really?

As far as I know the mana return on crit is the replacement for our previous "whack-it-with-your-stick--hard" ability. So it's only returning mana to you and noone else. The haste thing is on a too lengthy cooldown for its duration and the fact that aura is not raid-wide. It should go down by 5 seconds at least and the duration up to 12s. And still...being properly specced means just having digged through the bloat.