1. #1

    Sword And Board Alternative Effect

    Greetings,

    I came across the following thread regarding the dubious utility of the Sword And Board talent:

    http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...16853&sid=2000

    Assuming they are correct in their assessments, it sounds like it might be better to have it proc a free Shield Block instead of a free Shield Slam, since SB does not trigger the GCD.

    It also keeps to the image of the talent as well - a minor yet still significant point.

    Your Thoughts?

  2. #2

    Re: Sword And Board Alternative Effect

    http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=Lqh...Vct0e0zfesgubo
    OR
    http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=LV0cZVZVcthe0zfesguho

    would then be better options then something like
    http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=LV0cZZVcthe0zfesguAo

    too bad I can't combine Cruelty & Impale off-spec, 20% extra crit on Cleave would make some very nice multi-tanking threat.

  3. #3

    Re: Sword And Board Alternative Effect

    Quote Originally Posted by Guran
    too bad I can't combine Cruelty & Impale off-spec, 20% extra crit on Cleave would make some very nice multi-tanking threat.
    I get the idea that Blizz did this on purpose - Incite looks like its supposed to help Prot Warriors solo and give Arms/Fury Tanks a bit more "oomph" in the threat generation department. Since TC doesn't count as a weapon, it doesn't benefit from other melee crit bonuses like Cruelty. Too bad.

    Anywho, according to the Beta testers, the Warrior Talents for that tier in all three trees are really, really weak. Sword and Board happens to be weak in light of the really low Threat/DPS contribution it provides at the expense of interrupting the tanking rotation.

    Making Sword and Board proc Shield Block instead of Shield Slam will not interrupt your tanking rotation and yet provide a sizeable increase in mitigation, particularly when combined with Shield Spec and Critical Block.

    The numbers would probably have to be tweaked a bit, but considering the removal of crushing blows and the change of SB to 30 seconds, the proposed change could make the ability much more desirable for Prot Warriors.

  4. #4

    Re: Sword And Board Alternative Effect

    Tbh, the only decent talents are;
    * Trauma in Arms (Bloodletting & Deep Wounds, going to be a very nice combo)
    * Titan's Grip in Fury (I'm guessing a 10-15% DPS increase overall)
    * Critical Block in Prot (basicly 30% extra block value, but without the Shield Slam scaling)
    * Shockwave in Prot (AoE damaging stun with high threat on a 20s CD? yes please!!)

    Meh talents imo are:
    * Furious Resolve in Fury (Is more threat reduction really needed with Bloodbath inc?)
    * Safeguard in Prot (only situational use)
    * Stalwart Protector in Prot (situational only for AoE & rage-efficiency fights)

    There you have it, Arms has 1 good talent, Fury 1 good and 1 meh, and prot get 2 good and 1 meh. Definately needs some revising tbh.

  5. #5

    Re: Sword And Board Alternative Effect

    Speak no ill will about Stalwart Protector. That is a god-send for warrior tanks for tanking non-raid content. Even with only tier 4 I had to stop tanking Shadow labs due to rage starvation (too many dodges/parries/blocks), unless I put on a couple pieces of dps gear to balance it out, or downgraded to bold. At tier 5, forget about any "regular" 70 instances, the rage starvation is horrendous against anything other than hard-hitting raid mobs/bosses. This talent has those in mind that will not be doing only 10 and 25-man raids once they hit 80, particularly soloing.

  6. #6

    Re: Sword And Board Alternative Effect

    Teferi, I had the same problem, untill I found a new way of "down-ranking": Stop using CC.
    Just tank em all at once and have ppl focus on DPS, goes faster and you'll have rage to burn

  7. #7

    Re: Sword And Board Alternative Effect

    Quote Originally Posted by Guran
    Tbh, the only decent talents are;
    * Trauma in Arms (Bloodletting & Deep Wounds, going to be a very nice combo)
    * Titan's Grip in Fury (I'm guessing a 10-15% DPS increase overall)
    * Critical Block in Prot (basicly 30% extra block value, but without the Shield Slam scaling)
    * Shockwave in Prot (AoE damaging stun with high threat on a 20s CD? yes please!!)

    Meh talents imo are:
    * Furious Resolve in Fury (Is more threat reduction really needed with Bloodbath inc?)
    * Safeguard in Prot (only situational use)
    * Stalwart Protector in Prot (situational only for AoE & rage-efficiency fights)

    There you have it, Arms has 1 good talent, Fury 1 good and 1 meh, and prot get 2 good and 1 meh. Definately needs some revising tbh.
    Lot of Testers didn't like Shockwave because of the stun, just as a lot of Prot Warriors aren't too thrilled with Imp. Revenge. While it's pretty nifty, the stun just makes it harder for the tank to gain rage and more likely to lose aggro to the AoE players. A 360 degree Shockwave that does more damage or has a Taunt effect might be a better idea, tbh.

    Safeguard is situational - the damage reduction is ideal mostly for covering a caster for an AoE pull or Arena match. Considering how far down the tree it is, that makes it double-plus-ungood.

    Furious Resolve and Unrelenting Assault are mostly useful only in PVP and tanking as an off-spec.

    It seems that the devs are trying to create talents that fill out each spec's off-spec roles. This is an attempt doomed to failure. They do not seem to understand that Talents are used to specialize in a particular type of playstyle/role.

    They'd be better off creating new trainable skills that do these things. I don't spec Prot just so I can grab a talent that increases my PvP viability.

    Eh..

  8. #8

    Re: Sword And Board Alternative Effect

    I'm gonna like Shockwave as part of my threat cycle on a boss and mostly, because I can actually get a mob back from a healer without having to re-position my entire group.

    Imagine seeing your healer getting hit by a mob that broke loose or that was a pat and you didn't see coming. (Or some Huntard over-aggrod and then he FDed next to the healer. Or ...). Since you have Vigilance on your healer, you will have your Taunt CD ready. Now just Shockwave(0.0s), Intervene the healer(1.5s), Taunt(1.5s) and Intercept back to your previous target(3s). You even have 1s extra for running back & forth past the GCD. You have lost 0 rage income, since you wouldn't have gotten hit while intervening, but you'll be back at your group of mobs without having to move them around traps and sheeps first before you can continue to tank again.
    Although I have to agree on the AoE'ers part. Perhaps an immobilize is good enough, as you have Conc. Blow already for PvP-fun :P

  9. #9

    Re: Sword And Board Alternative Effect

    http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...12350135201301

    No sword and board
    And before people bitch at imp demoshout, its good

  10. #10

    Re: Sword And Board Alternative Effect

    Quote Originally Posted by Xaria
    http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...12350135201301

    No sword and board
    And before people bitch at imp demoshout, its good
    In the current game, imp. demoshout is only good in combination with curse of recklessness, but that aside: why did you take imp shield block? Even if 'spammed' it will allow you 1 extra block every minute. Looking at the current gear setups etc I'm implied to say it's 2 talent points for about 10 DPS less income, wouldn't something like imp. Defensive Stance be far more valuable then?

  11. #11

    Re: Sword And Board Alternative Effect

    Quote Originally Posted by Guran
    In the current game, imp. demoshout is only good in combination with curse of recklessness, but that aside: why did you take imp shield block? Even if 'spammed' it will allow you 1 extra block every minute. Looking at the current gear setups etc I'm implied to say it's 2 talent points for about 10 DPS less income, wouldn't something like imp. Defensive Stance be far more valuable then?
    You are correct - there is an Elitist Jerks thread on the discovery that even bosses have very low AP, ~450 IIRC. That means that there's no point having more than 2/5 Imp. Demo Shout unless you have a Lock put up CoR, and even then only up to 4/5.

    That's way too situational - the talent would be better off being rolled into Commanding Presence, IMHO.

    As for Shield Block, you are correct - Imp. SB isn't too useful with the removal of crushing blows and the cooldown change to 30s. That's why I recommended having SnB proc a SB - you get the chance to get a 30s CD up without interrupting your tanking rotation. Your Threat generation stays steady, but your mitigation jumps up considerably for all tanking encounters.

    Imagine getting a SnB SB proc chain off and then topping it off with another SB...and since it's a mitigation chain proc instead of a damage chain proc, you won't get the same amount of QQ that Shamans did with their Windfury chains

    Raid healers may not like that tho...

  12. #12

    Re: Sword And Board Alternative Effect

    Anyone aware if SB blocks an entire hit or just a percentage? That is, if I'm hit for 5k while SB is up then i take "0" dmg within that 5 sec period? Just need some informative clarification as the description is quite vague to me but w/critical block blocking double dmg I'm assuming SB blocks ALL dmg (1 hit that is) within the time period its up.

    Pls confirm and tnx

  13. #13

    Re: Sword And Board Alternative Effect

    Quote Originally Posted by ullysis
    Anyone aware if SB blocks an entire hit or just a percentage? That is, if I'm hit for 5k while SB is up then i take "0" dmg within that 5 sec period? Just need some informative clarification as the description is quite vague to me but w/critical block blocking double dmg I'm assuming SB blocks ALL dmg (1 hit that is) within the time period its up.

    Pls confirm and tnx
    I read it as one garaunteed block which blocks for double to amount on the next melee hit you take.

  14. #14

    Re: Sword And Board Alternative Effect

    Quote Originally Posted by Xianth
    I read it as one garaunteed block which blocks for double to amount on the next melee hit you take.
    So it's pretty much the same as critical block in dmg absorbed except its 100% guaranteed and selective compared to 30% chance. Alright then tnx.

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