Question about Judgement of the Wise

[Tachi]

so if i max this talent out for the 60%, and lets say i judge command for 1000 damage. i'll get back 600 mana?

seems so but i guess i just can't believe it.





Also, could someone point me to post about the way the new seals and judgement spells are setup. A friend came by and showed me a list once but i cant seem to find it again.



-Edited

Nevermind about the second part, i found the details about judgements.

[bfrost7]

i guess so, the 600 will also go to 3 other party members, this probably will get nerfed though.

[Rawberry]

It works exactly as the talent tooltip says it works. I see no reason why it shouldn't either, so I have no clue why you can't believe the tooltip.

[Hooch]

It might get toned down, but it was put there to make up for all the lost intellect, since Ret Paladins will be sharing gear with Warriors & Death Knights.

[Rawberry]

I doubt Blizzard will decide to nerf Judgement of the Wise because it solves an age old problem the Retribution Paladin has.

Generally melee classes can never run out of 'oomph' for long substained durations, except the current version of our beloved Retribution Paladin. We ofcourse currently have ways of regaining mana with Seal of Wisdom, Judgement of Wisdom and applying Blessing of Sacrifice on the MT for damage but the mana gained never seems to be enough, and usually severely impacts our DPS output.


The current version of Judgement of the Wise solves this problem completly, but not in an overpowered way.

[Bazil]

Im worried about a few things tho, as we have no regen or any other way of restoring mana then Divine Plea. How do u do anything when you are mana burned or simply oom from casting 2 HLs?

Because we need to spend mana to replenish it, but if you dont got any, IE in PvP i can see this kinda thing happen alot.

[ikillbigppl]

Im worried about a few things tho, as we have no regen or any other way of restoring mana then Divine Plea. How do u do anything when you are mana burned or simply oom from casting 2 HLs?

Because we need to spend mana to replenish it, but if you dont got any, IE in PvP i can see this kinda thing happen alot.

with seals lasting 2 min not 30 seconds and judment on an 8-10 second cd and not using your seal anymore if u have at least 150-200 mana u can regen 4x that or more by spaming judment... i do not see why any ret paladins should go oom unless they are doing a shit load of healing... even spam judments now will only help u instead of kill u like they do now. im this change is realy nice and shouldn't be changed

[kapowaz]

Also note: Sanctified Seals means our seals can't be dispelled when properly talented.

[Bazil]

Also note: Sanctified Seals means our seals can't be dispelled when properly talented.

Its better to just put two points in it and go with full Stoicism, this will give you a 96% dispel resist chance and it wont be ignored by dispell effects, protecting buffs like Freedom abit.

[Rawberry]

Its better to just put two points in it and go with full Stoicism, this will give you a 96% dispel resist chance and it wont be ignored by dispell effects, protecting buffs like Freedom abit.

Could we keep this thread on topic please.

[gythawen]

I think it'll be toned down or at least capped. We've all seen the vids of non 80 paladins criting on judgement for 17k... Hmm, that's 10,200 Mana back to 3 people. Sound fair? I don't think so.

[Rawberry]

I think it'll be toned down or at least capped. We've all seen the vids of non 80 paladins criting on judgement for 17k... Hmm, that's 10,200 Mana back to 3 people. Sound fair? I don't think so.

Critting for 17k is no longer possible as the 'The Art of War' talent has been changed.

[gythawen]

Critting for 17k is no longer possible as the 'The Art of War' talent has been changed.

Okay, tone it down to a 5-10k judge which is probably more then possible on lvl 80. That is still 3000-6000 mana.

My guess is that they'll drop it down to 30%. We shall see. Great talent and just want rets need.

[Rawberry]

Okay, tone it down to a 5-10k judge which is probably more then possible on lvl 80. That is still 3000-6000 mana.

My guess is that they'll drop it down to 30%. We shall see. Great talent and just want rets need.

Using 1-2k (non-crit) Judgements for the calculations seems more plausible, thus we are looking at 600-1200 mana gained every 6 seconds.

[Hooch]

I know that blizzard will put some cap on the amount of mana earned back, but it will still be a good talent

[kohakx]

Personally I like the way they are taking this.

All of our Ret abilities cost a percentage of our base mana instead of a set number, which means we are effective as ret no matter how much total mana we have.

Healing is like a bonus to ret, so it costs a set number, which makes it so we heal at strategic times. In essence it costs a lot to heal (to a Ret Pally) but it's become more useful because we heal for more.

With Judgments of the Wise, we regain some mana from judgments, so we don't run out of mana like Wars never run out of Rage or Rogues are never without their energy for too long. Although personally, if they did balance it, I think it should be this:

Judgments of the Wise: Returns 40% of the damage of your Judgments as Mana to YOU and 2 additional party/raid members within 15 yards.

That way we have a bit more control over who exactly is getting the mana, and lets say they balance it so a max JoC crit would be 8k (with all stars aligned) which I believe is a nice number, that would be only 3200 mana, while a normal JOC crit (x2) would be lets say 3500 max so at about 1400 mana. I think that is fair.

[Seraphk]

I was under the impression that the 60% of damage as mana was split 20% between three party/raid members. This is the way the tooltip read for me, but some of you are saying that it would 60% to every person? That sounds a bit OP. The good thing is that while soloing, it actually does give you the full 60% because there's no one to share the mana with.

As for a nerf, I've been watching tons of beta videos of Ret Paladins grinding and their mana doesn't even go down with it and this is also with some of them using a Rank 6 Consecration every so often. Thus, I would imagine it would get a slight nerf so that at least their power source is somewhat on decline rather than seeming so infinite. But, you can definitely tell that, with them sharing itemization with Warriors, they really need to make sure this ability does a great job keeping the mana coming in at an effective rate.

I love how this grants Ret Paladins so much synergy with healers in arena. In 2v2, the Ret Paladin and it's healer would get 30% of the damage done back in mana. So if they were able to do just a 5 k judgement - that's 1500 mana each or as much as a Mana Burn. That's pretty nice.

[ikillbigppl]

I was under the impression that the 60% of damage as mana was split 20% between three party/raid members. This is the way the tooltip read for me, but some of you are saying that it would 60% to every person? That sounds a bit OP. The good thing is that while soloing, it actually does give you the full 60% because there's no one to share the mana with.

As for a nerf, I've been watching tons of beta videos of Ret Paladins grinding and their mana doesn't even go down with it and this is also with some of them using a Rank 6 Consecration every so often. Thus, I would imagine it would get a slight nerf so that at least their power source is somewhat on decline rather than seeming so infinite. But, you can definitely tell that, with them sharing itemization with Warriors, they really need to make sure this ability does a great job keeping the mana coming in at an effective rate.

I love how this grants Ret Paladins so much synergy with healers in arena. In 2v2, the Ret Paladin and it's healer would get 30% of the damage done back in mana. So if they were able to do just a 5 k judgement - that's 1500 mana each or as much as a Mana Burn. That's pretty nice.

yes and with the changes to mana pots ret paladins will be a requirment for raids to help make up for the lack of mana pots. the mana pot changes combined with this change is going to make rets not just wanted but required in raids of all sizes and even 5 mans. we will no longer have a problem with groups