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  1. #21

    Re: So...Mages the new warlock?

    8k shadow bolts is reserved for warriors on berseker stance with full shadow weaving debuff+imp shadow bolt debuff+ curse of the elements. And lets not forget, it needs to be a destro lock using it on a zero resilience target.

  2. #22

    Re: So...Mages the new warlock?

    it would be a quite more with all those debbufs :O
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  3. #23
    Warchief Statix's Avatar
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    Re: So...Mages the new warlock?

    Quote Originally Posted by Statix
    That's a total of Seed of Coruption: 1832.985 DoT + Siphon Life: 1010 DoT + Curse of Agony: 2311.115 DoT + Corruption: 1968.8 DoT + Unstable Affliction: 1552.5 DoT = 8674.4 DoT. And that's without bonus spell damage and debuffs on your target.
    With another Warlock putting Curse of the Elements on your target and a Shadowpriest with 5 points in Shadow Weaving:

    Curse of the Elements: 8674.4 + 10% = 9541.84 DoT.

    Shadow Weaving: 9541.84 + 10% = 10496.024 DoT.

    That's a total of 10539.31296 DoT without being modified by Bonus Spell Damage. I would calculate that too, but I don't know how Bonus Spell Damage affects DoTs.
    Statix will suffice.

  4. #24

    Re: So...Mages the new warlock?

    Your maths have some problems, many of the talented bonuses to dots aren't multiplicative, but addictive (bad scaling) and some even are only applied to base damage (improved curse of agony).

    Corruption and seed of corruption are mutually exclusive, seed of corruption overwrites corruption and you can't cast corruption over seed.

    Can't apply more than one curse on target (either curse of the elements or curse of agony)

    There are only 3 instant cast dots a warlock can apply, curse of agony, siphon life (requires talent to get) and corruption (requires 5 talent points to become instant but has spell damage component of an instant cast).

    Fel hunter dps is negligible, we sick them on people for spell pushback.

    Resilience reduces dot damage

    On top of it all, that damage is over quite a long time (30 secs siphon life, 24 secs curse of agony, 18 secs corruption (nerfed from old 15 secs) and 15 secs unstable affliction).

    Affliction is quite far from being instant win

  5. #25
    Warchief Statix's Avatar
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    Re: So...Mages the new warlock?

    Oke, I didn't know that. But I did say Curse of the Elements from another Warlock. Still, let's say it's 8k then. That's still a lot of damage. And you don't have to do anything about it. You just cast it, and they take the damage.
    Statix will suffice.

  6. #26

    Re: So...Mages the new warlock?

    The only ones that simply take that damage are hunters and warriors, everyone else simply cleans them up or heals through. That is, if they don't have a healer to do it for them, then all that damage can be countered by a couple of lazy lifeblooms. Fear, silence and a couple of shadowbolts need to be applied in order to kill people in pvp.

  7. #27

    Re: So...Mages the new warlock?

    DPS / Utility balance in spells
    Players are right that Mages are in some cases getting more utility now with new talents. We'll evaluate the strength of classes utility when we tweak DPS output numbers. If a Mage spell is giving more utility than a Warlock spec, obviously the Warlock should be doing more DPS.

    it looks like warlocks are the new warlocks and were still the kings of transportation and the best butlers arround.(hey merlin get cracking with the biscuits we will be hungry after we slay the beast)

    the way that post i quoted above reads to me it means that no matter what they give to mages to make us feel good about the class before the expansion drops ,the developers will make sure that locks get more of a buffing and will still be able to out damage us in there sleep.

    its chilling "obviously the warlock should be doing more dps" why is this obvious,what is obvious is that the pet using dot casting class that leads the meters without a pet and without casting dots shall remain the undeserved king of dps and mages will stay as the "red shirts" of raiding(and by redshirts i mean the extra in a red shirt who goes on an away mission with kirk,spock and mccoy into a dangerous situation on the original star trek and dies in a horrible way to move the story along,not the guys who are on the football team to practice and not play,but the way BC raiding works the foot ball redshirt works as well)

    I hope blizzard understands that not a single paying customer selected there mage expecting to be the king of aoe damage.if anyone should be specialized in aoe damage it is the locks I dispise so much,they can cast drains and heal them selves actual advantages to an aoe specialized caster.before you cry and defend the warlocks,I read the same description they did on there class,its not my fault they fell for it.In this type of game the mage class is known for doing obscene damage and dieing quickly if not played properly,but for some reason blizzard has a hateon for mages and has decided that warlocks should be mages and mages should be servants.pet classes are for solo players ,but for some reason blizzard wants them to be raid vaiable,and doesnt seem to mind throwing mages to the curb to make it happen.

  8. #28

    Re: So...Mages the new warlock?

    Quote Originally Posted by ascote
    Affliction is instant win
    fixed =P

    I play both a 70 frost mage and a 70 affliction warlock.

    PvP and PvE is honestly too easy on my warlock. Yet the mage tends to be nothing but headaches. And it's not like I'm bad at the class, I've been playing both for nearly two years now, it's just way too easy to dot kite run and laugh at the damage from affliction spec. Just my two cents.

    But on the original topic... just... no. =P They are still very different, closer now, I'll give you that. But still very different. That is until Mages get fear, and water elemental stays out constantly... and we get instant cast dots. I guess to make it fair... warlocks can become mobile refridgerators and polymorph too.
    Horde
    80 Shaman, 80 Death Knight, 70 Warlock, 70 Hunter, 70 Mage
    Alliance
    80 Rogue, 70 Mage

  9. #29

    Re: So...Mages the new warlock?

    My SO wants to play a Mage for our duo with their changes in LK, but their self-sustaince and finite mana annoys me since I refuse to play anything but a healer nowadays.

    However as an old school Warlock, I'd love to see that class brought back to our fold. Even if the majesty (and complete horror) of SM/Ruin is gone. Deep down, I very much miss my Aggrolock and the headaches I caused raid leaders.




  10. #30

    Re: So...Mages the new warlock?

    Kalgan actually did swap to play a Mage for at least a bit, we found this out during the Shaman nonsense.

    Not that I believe in the conspiracy theory nonsense that the lead on a game with 10 million subs that is trying to make it's way into esport (stupidity...) is going to try to rig the game, or that the creators of the classes for some reason hate the classes they made.

    If anything, developers taking real time to flesh out real characters on live realms and get some experience with their problems aside from the forum hyperbole is a VERY good thing.

    Mage numbers will likely be toned down, it's just a beta afterall.

  11. #31

    Re: So...Mages the new warlock?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dyo
    mages will be op
    hopefully blizz will tune them down ..80 to all ress at tier 2 talent ? to this regenerating 2% mana each time they resist something ? ~~ 10 % chance on each dmg spell to stun for 2 secs... 10-15% chance to get isntant fireballs
    10 or 15% chance to get frost fingers or w/e effect so u can get 2 lolances out ~~

    to high survival , to high dmg , to much rng (which for other classes is being removed)

    conclusion
    kalgan (aka retargan)
    rolled a mage
    l2 research, 10% chance to make shatter useful in raid basically, 15% chance to get an instant cast on a spell in a different tree yeah, it's a frost talent that gives a fireball instant.
    Resistance will scale these to something poor at lvl 80 and spell pen of alot of ppl would make it insignificant
    As well these are all in different trees. 2% mana is a nerf from 5% the upping of resistance this was simply to make these talents useful for something other then a run throughs of dead mines....
    I find it retarded people looking for classes to be nerfed instead of others improved.

    And yeah if someone goes and tests something it's a good thing, currently warlocks bolts damage still scales better and they have 2 raid spots atleast from their support curses.

    Heaven forbid mages actually do what they are meant to do and DPS considering their survivability is pathetic as well as mana efficiency being 2nd rate to the other DPS casters which is helped slightly in frost but given nothing more then previously in fire and a measly spirit talent in arcane where as both warlock and priest will gain alot more from spirit.

  12. #32

    Re: So...Mages the new warlock?

    you can actually take all that no problem
    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?mage...00000000000000

    That being said, Mages don't need any toning down, other classes need some toning up, and that'll eventually come.

  13. #33

    Re: So...Mages the new warlock?

    I suggest you go back and read the talents you mentioned you couldn't get before posting again, because they are all in that build. I never claimed it was the best build (even though it beats imp CS builds for most 3s and 5s teams), I just said it's incredibly easy to take all of the talents you said were impossible to take.

    The build has deep freeze (why did you even mention it?), focus magic is crap for arenas and Burning determination beats Imp CS in 3s and 5s against most setups.

    GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR FOCUS MAGIC BUILD THOUGH, I bet it'll be mighty game breaking in arenas, especially since the downranking nerf.

    Edit: Deleted quote of previous post. Do not quote the last post in a thread when replying. Read the Forum Guidelines before posting. Grimlor

  14. #34

    Re: So...Mages the new warlock?

    Quote Originally Posted by NymPhox
    But on the original topic... just... no. =P They are still very different, closer now, I'll give you that. But still very different. That is until Mages get

    1.fear
    2. water elemental stays out constantly
    3. instant cast dots.

    I guess to make it fair... warlocks can become mobile refridgerators and polymorph too.
    After all this time Mages finally got some love and instead of thanking Blizzard for the very good job done you are making a fool of yourself by just suggesting this...

    Btw, spec arcane and you will not be needing anything.


  15. #35

    Re: So...Mages the new warlock?

    @ Palefolklore

    Are you really defending this build? This thing is garbage. Assumming that you were going for a frost build I can make something 10x better then that garbage. And if we all want to be truthful with ourselves... as it currently stands instant spam with PoM up is going to be the shit (will change gaurenteed) but even with out that change i could see an arc build being better then the garbage in your spec. Here are 2 specs for pvp.

    Frost
    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?mage...00000000000000

    @ Unspoken

    Ummm I think the point that NymPhox was trying to get at was we will be nothing like warlocks till we get those things. Not that any of us mages really want that to happen. But the fact is we are still very different from warlocks.
    Arcane
    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?mage...53320102500321

  16. #36

    Re: So...Mages the new warlock?

    Iceknight, you are obviously a troll, but I'll bite
    (instant spam with PoM arena viable? what are you going to do when your PoM gets dispelled? PoM pyro is a good build in 3s with a specific setup -mostly because of the added survivability from instant invis-, but PoM instant spam abuse is a no-no for arenas considering you'll pretty much always get a dispeller on the other team)

    Quote Originally Posted by Iceknight
    @ Palefolklore

    Are you really defending this build? This thing is garbage. Assumming that you were going for a frost build I can make something 10x better then that garbage. And if we all want to be truthful with ourselves... as it currently stands instant spam with PoM up is going to be the shit (will change gaurenteed) but even with out that change i could see an arc build being better then the garbage in your spec. Here are 2 specs for pvp.
    I am going to assume you have absolutely no experience in high end 3v3 pvp as a mage.
    First of all, you are losing frostbite and brain freeze, that's a ton of burst and control/ability to split damage in exchange for what? Arcane fortitude and student of the mind? Wow.
    You won't be wasting your CS for silences during 3s, you'll always want to lock a heal, root or cyclone with them to get the full 8 second duration, so Imp CS is completly redundant, Impact with short Fire blast cooldown and Ice lance is going to put 3 times the pressure on the opposing team. Burning determination lets the mage pop icy veins and free cast for at least 5 seconds after a kick or pummel which is incredibly devastating for the other team. You have no idea just how huge of a buff this is, but that's probably because you've never been past 1800 in 3s.
    Incinerate = spell impact for this build, but you lose 2 seconds off fireblast cd and ignite (for lack of a better talent there) to make it worthwhile, sacrificing a lot of your reliable on the move dps.
    Piercing ice instead of the newly buffed Winter's chill? Seriously? Wow, that's an extra 10% crit on fireblast, AM and every single frost spell, this desition is just fail.
    Also, permafrost? With the new downranking nerf? You'll run oom from spamming rank 1 frostbolt. No, permafrost is def not a priority, and def no better than frostbite.

    Again, I'm pretty sure you are trolling, since nobody is that stupid, but I just felt like biting so meh.

  17. #37

    Re: So...Mages the new warlock?

    Alright to sum things up... When pom gets dispelled, i just have 30% less chace to crit. It doesnt mean that i am completely without ways to defend my self. I can still use basically the same stratagy while critting less it would still give me mobility and quite a bit of flexability. And yes you are right I have never been 1800+ with my mage. I have been 2000+ with my Shammy. But this isnt a debate about who's epeen is bigger. Upon reveiwing you spec i can see some of the choices you made had there reasons. I personally prefer the pasive damage of Peircing ice over the dependant winters chill. Of course the problem in arena would be getting your PoM dispelled but i feel while a hinderance could be avoided by playing tactfully. Knowing when to use PoM to get off some quick crits ect. The more i review your build though it is starting to grow on me. I guess the 7 points in arc just through me off (so used to auto 17 for imp CS). The stuns of Impact will probably have the desired effect anyway. I guess i was just thinking more about how things work now. I concede the point.

    As for permifrost... that is just because i like to bg And snaring people in bg is all too easy. Once again I guess i was a bit harsh. Should have really considered the new mechanics.


  18. #38

    Re: So...Mages the new warlock?

    Quote Originally Posted by Iceknight
    And yes you are right I have never been 1800+ with my mage. I have been 2000+ with my Shammy. But this isnt a debate about who's epeen is bigger.
    That's not the point I was trying to make. If I just wanted to say "ur arena ratingz suck lawl" I would have left it at that. I was honestly saying that the reason you don't understand the reasoning behind the spec is because you've never been there.
    I did get pretty defensive but that's only because you were incredibly aggressive with your post.

    The more i review your build though it is starting to grow on me. I guess the 7 points in arc just through me off (so used to auto 17 for imp CS). The stuns of Impact will probably have the desired effect anyway. I guess i was just thinking more about how things work now. I concede the point.
    the 7 points in arcane are mostly there to prove "lolshit" that you can get all the talents mentioned by Dyo.
    However, they do play a huge role in the spec. Dispel resistance is amazing with a 5 stack of winter's chill on top of your freezes and chills (another reason I would take winter's chill instead of piercing ice) and the extra magic resistance is really great against Healer damage and CC, since they carry no spell penetration. On top of that, you get mana back every time you resist one of their spells, which just adds to your longevity.

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