Art of War necessary in stoicism builds?

[binxer]

As a ret paladin, I was very excited by the Art of War change. But I forgot about the change to Stoicism in the prot tree, which reduces stuns by 30%.

It seems that using Hand of Freedom just to get rid of a stun might be a little wasteful when we already have 30% reduction in stuns. We're usually saving freedom for frost nova's when we're stacked with magic debuffs, crippling poisons with 5 stacks of deadly (or wound) poison, or hamstring, something we can't remove with Cleanse.

Think about a rogue situation. They usually get the opening attack, many times a cheapshot. Normally it's 4 seconds, closely followed by a 6 second kidney shot (usually a couple seconds after a cheapshot). Total time stunned is 10 seconds. With Stoicism it's 7 seconds. After a rogue cheapshots, which can range from 20-40 energy and gives 2-3 combo points, they need to use a few special abilities like hemo, sinister strike or backstab to gain combo points for the 6 second kidney shot. A good rogue usually waits for energy to get fairly high after they get 5 combo points, so they don't waste the kidney shot. The cheapshot, now only lasting 2.8 seconds, gives us a little more time to: do damage, cleanse, or repentance. Point is, because of the lowered cheapshot duration, Rogues will have to wait even longer to kidney shot, allowing us help our team more.

The longest stuns in WoW are Hammer of Justice and Kidney Shot (both 6 seconds). With Stoicism, these go down to 4.2 seconds each. Will we really needs to use Hand of Freedom to get out of 4.2 seconds of stun, allowing Priests, Shaman, Hunters, Mages or Warlocks to potentially dispel it?

[Nilaihah]

Hm, there's cases of cases. It depends entirely on what class composition you're fighting.

Personally I'll take both, mostly because I can also get my partners out of stun - while taking stoicism mostly because there's no better filler in my way to Imp. HoJ.

[Esra]

i think it depends on the situation, i'm sure its fairly nice for the second ks so you can spare your trinket for a blind or a second cheapshot ks combo with vanish or a fear from priest etc.
but i see the problem , now we have even more talents and so limited points to spent, always hard to decide

[binxer]

Hm, there's cases of cases. It depends entirely on what class composition you're fighting.

Personally I'll take both, mostly because I can also get my partners out of stun - while taking stoicism mostly because there's no better filler in my way to Imp. HoJ.

I did forget about using Freedom to free a partner from stuns. I suppose that, and maybe the fact that it's the best talent to take with those points, wouldn't make it terrible to take both Art of War and Stoicism.

[Lille7]

What im wondering is: are you immune to stuns while under the effect of Hand of Freedom? When specced Art of War ofcourse, because if you are, thats some nice stun immunity

[Nilaihah]

Lille:

No, unfortunately no. You just break the stun, but you can be stunned right after. It may have been overpowered otherwise I think.

[Rawberry]

It seems that using Hand of Freedom just to get rid of a stun might be a little wasteful when we already have 30% reduction in stuns. We're usually saving freedom for frost nova's when we're stacked with magic debuffs, crippling poisons with 5 stacks of deadly (or wound) poison, or hamstring, something we can't remove with Cleanse.

Please keep in mind that you cannot cast Hand of Freedom while stunned, even with Art of War.

[Lille7]

Lille:

No, unfortunately no. You just break the stun, but you can be stunned right after. It may have been overpowered otherwise I think.

Oh well didnt really think it was giving immunity, would have been nice if it did though, even if it had been op :P

[binxer]

Please keep in mind that you cannot cast Hand of Freedom while stunned, even with Art of War.

Are you sure? I was under the impression, that like Blessing of Protection (now Hand), that you can cast it while stunned. It may be that you can't cast it on another person while stunned, but it would seem weird if you couldn't cast it on yourself to get rid of stuns.

[Rawberry]

Are you sure? I was under the impression, that like Blessing of Protection (now Hand), that you can cast it while stunned. It may be that you can't cast it on another person while stunned, but it would seem weird if you couldn't cast it on yourself to get rid of stuns.

Just tried again outside Ironforge with a Rogue stunning me and nothing happend. Sorry to disappoint.

[Rawberry]

2 questions regarding this. With Art of War and hand of Freedom can you cast it on other players that are stunned to break the stun for them while you are stunned or does it only work if you are not stunned ?

You cannot cast Hand of Freedom while stunned, not on yourself or anyone else. Testing this is not actually possible because of the lack of Arena's or Battlegrounds on the beta realm, but sometimes applying a little logic does the trick .

[Moar Pew Pew]

You cannot cast Hand of Freedom while stunned, not on yourself or anyone else. Testing this is not actually possible because of the lack of Arena's or Battlegrounds on the beta realm, but sometimes applying a little logic does the trick .

I personally think it should, but I guess that's just me.

[Rawberry]

Maybe however i would feel more at ease if we could get some hard concrete proof on this then just leaving it up to logical assumption. Regardless, your input is noted.

If you cannot cast Hand of Freedom on yourself while stunned, you will never be able to cast it on another player. This is not just an assumption, it makes sense.

[Akyle]

If you cannot cast Hand of Freedom on yourself while stunned, you will never be able to cast it on another player. This is not just an assumption, it makes sense.

^ This


and
If you NEED "concrete evidence" run to gurubashi arena in a party set up then.
An arena has existed long before the E-sport WoW is today.

[Rawberry]

Goodness me.

Just ran over to Grubashi and no, I could not cast Hand of Freedom on either myself or my "teammate" while stunned.

[Samiel]

Read what i posted before you before posting this^. I rather have solid facts in front of me then playing a guessing game with logic. He doesn't want to test it ok w.e, i was only curious and ill find out soon enough if it acts like how bop acts or acted. Last time i did check from patch notes forthe Paladin. The Paladin can no longer Bop himself to break stunned however he can bop his teammate wile stunned. If i was the logical guessing game type of guy then i would have to say this would also work with Art of War and Hand of Freedom regardless of it not being able to be cast while you are stunned now in TBC. If not it's kind of crappy imo that they wouldn't change this aspect as it is now without Art of War.

Damn some of you posters need to switch to decaf

When can you cast BoP on someone else while stunned? Which version of WoW are you playing? They changed that about, oh, two patches ago, you can only use BoP on yourself if you're Incapcitated, not anyone else, or did they change *that* to be to totally opposite since I went PvP'ing last?

[Rawberry]

I am assuming that this was tested in beta,

Ofcourse

[malkaviano]

I did forget about using Freedom to free a partner from stuns. I suppose that, and maybe the fact that it's the best talent to take with those points, wouldn't make it terrible to take both Art of War and Stoicism.

U could spare us from this trollage.

U guys still going to fuck up this talent... Then u r going to cry about arenas.