Less DPS = More Utility....My Moonkin isn't convinced.

[Asmo]

So ok, we have Blizz stating:

DPS / Utility balance in spells
Players are right that Mages are in some cases getting more utility now with new talents. We'll evaluate the strength of classes utility when we tweak DPS output numbers. If a Mage spell is giving more utility than a Warlock spec, obviously the Warlock should be doing more DPS. (Source)

Does this apply across the board? Because so far it doesn't seem that Balance druids have gained much new utility to balance out it's lower DPS. We've gotten some pretty nice new talents that increase raid damage, but most of them are weaker versions of skills other classes have, or just weak in and of themselves.

Does this mean we're getting higher personal DPS or (my hope) more, and more powerful raid buffs. I didn't roll Moonkin to top the charts, I like being wanted for my crit aura (Casters start arguing when I get my raid invite), and I'd like to see IMKA and E&M buffed as well as seeing some new buffing skills.

[HenRock]

well bud if your saying druids don't have utility then your blind cause druids are the most versatile class in the game if you ask me... A real jack of all trades and Master of none... plus they can do some stuff other classes cant do amongst those many things they can do between shape shifting and specs

[Asmo]

Oh dear me no. Haha, not saying we have none. We have a decent amount. My question was more along the lines of will our synergy be brought in line with other DPS casters since we have lower DPS?

I think I'm being unclear, but I can't think of just the right way to word it.

I was reading the post on the front page about DPS/utility balances, and I thought myself, "Of the DPS casters available, moonkins tend to be on the lower end of the scale, so in return, they should have the most utility right?". But when looking at the raid buffs associated with the spec (E&M, IFF, and MKA/IMKA), I feel like they are pretty weak in comparison to similar talents/skills in other classes, which doesn't fit the claim made above.

If anyone understands what I'm trying to say, and is more articulate, please wax poetic on this subject.

[Miranger]

All speculations are worthless until the game actually ships till then its stupid to try to figure out what classes are more what then others

[MortuariusBC]

All speculations are worthless until the game actually ships till then its stupid to try to figure out what classes are more what then others

pretty much sums it up

my lock has been my first char and main since release.... as of right now im less than thrilled with the way the talents look... couple gimmicky abilities and such... but that doesnt mean im not farming gold, stashing mats, working reps up, etc with my lock hoping that things will look good come release of wotlk

[Asmo]

The point of Beta is to figure out what classes are more what than others, and then tune Blizz tunes the game to what they want. I'm not speculating on who's going to be king of DPS or anything of the like, what I'm commenting on is the information coming from Beta, and statements made by Blizz. They've blatantly stated that If X class has lower DPS than Y class, X class should have more utility. I was wondering if that applied to more classes than just the mages and warlocks that they mentioned in the actual quote itself.

And on a side note, if you don't want to speculate, I suggest you steer clear of the forums, they're full to the brim with speculation.

[Biral]

Thing is this though:

Raid-wide target-based:
Moonkin increase Arcane and Nature damage by 6%.
Moonkin increases hit chance by 3%.
Death Knight(Frost) increases melee haste by 20%.
Death Knight(Blood) increases attack power by 10%.
Mage(Fire) increases Arcane, Fire, and Frost damage by 15%.
Mage(Frost) increases Arcane, Fire, and Frost crit by 10%.
Mage(Double Util) does both of the previous two.
Retribution Paladin increases crit chance by 3%.
Priest increases Shadow damage dealt by 10%.
Shaman (Enhancement) increases attack power by 10%.
Survival Hunter increases attack power by 25% of its own Agility.
Survival Hunter increases crit chance by 6% of any target affected by its non-damage traps (Frost, Freezing, Bear).
Warlock (CoE) increases Arcane, Fire, Frost, Nature, Shadow damage by 10%.
Warlock (CoR) reduces enemy armor by 800 (no new rank atm).
Warrior reduces enemy armor by 3925.
Warrior (Arms) increases physical damage by 4%.

As far as it goes, Moonkin is the most utility in raid-wide buffs primarily due to its hit debuffer.

The only option for Moonkins getting more damage or more utility would be to nullify that talent or replace it with one more PvP oriented which I don't think would work well, given the presence of plenty of PvP talents in the tree already.

[koder]

Mage(Fire) increases Arcane, Fire, and Frost damage by 15%.

you mean 10% probably 8)

[Panoramixe]

Thing is this though:

Raid-wide target-based:
Moonkin increase Arcane and Nature damage by 6%.
Moonkin increases hit chance by 3%.
Death Knight(Frost) increases melee haste by 20%.
Death Knight(Blood) increases attack power by 10%.
Mage(Fire) increases Arcane, Fire, and Frost damage by 15%.
Mage(Frost) increases Arcane, Fire, and Frost crit by 10%.
Mage(Double Util) does both of the previous two.
Retribution Paladin increases crit chance by 3%.
Priest increases Shadow damage dealt by 10%.
Shaman (Enhancement) increases attack power by 10%.
Survival Hunter increases attack power by 25% of its own Agility.
Survival Hunter increases crit chance by 6% of any target affected by its non-damage traps (Frost, Freezing, Bear).
Warlock (CoE) increases Arcane, Fire, Frost, Nature, Shadow damage by 10%.
Warlock (CoR) reduces enemy armor by 800 (no new rank atm).
Warrior reduces enemy armor by 3925.
Warrior (Arms) increases physical damage by 4%.

As far as it goes, Moonkin is the most utility in raid-wide buffs primarily due to its hit debuffer.

The only option for Moonkins getting more damage or more utility would be to nullify that talent or replace it with one more PvP oriented which I don't think would work well, given the presence of plenty of PvP talents in the tree already.

You completely ignored shamans, they're awesome raid buffers in WoTLK.

We're not sure whether earth & moon will stack with improved scorch for the arcane part.
You also forgot the massive raid mana regen improved water elemental gives since the last beta build, making mages currently the best without much doubt.
Also there are rumours hit cap will be 9% for casters too, making the hit already worse.This means several classes might already be hitcapped by just talents + tier gear and having our raid utility revolve solely on the fact people are undergeared is pretty lame.
So while basically all other raid (de)buffs scale with gear ours does the reverse.

I'm not saying it's a bad buff to the spec, just saying it shouldn't be our main/only selling point.

[Asmo]

Let's take it back to pre-school: Which of these is not like the others?

Shadow Weaving is 5 points for 10% extra shadow damage, Imp. Scorch is 3 points for 10% more Fire, Frost, and Arcane, CoE is just a non talented spell for 10% extra Arcane, Fire, Frost, Nature, And Shadow dmage and lasts 5 minutes, Earth and Moon is 5 points for 6% more Nature and Arcane damage.

Haha, locks would be better at buffing Ele Shaman/ B-Druid damage than Druids.

And yeah, you left out a huge portion of the totems shamans can utilize. I have a shaman, and he's wicked, but when it comes to synergy, based on what we've seen so far, B-druids are a good bit behind in new tricks for hybrids.