Death of the priest?

[Jonko]

right.... obviously you have very bad shammies, i'll give ya druids

[MortuariusBC]

On a happier note

I look forward to running arena 5s with my affliction/sl lock + one of you non qqing shadow priest + unholy DK + yet to be determined other 2 classes.

shadow damage mania!
i love you guys! my favorite arena partners till melee took over after S2

[Darkestdemon]

Misery: Causes spells cast at the target to have +3% spell hit. = LAME
Shadow Weaving: Buffs only self. = Wow super lame self buff only now
Improved Shadow Bolt: Buffs only self. = Wow theres a nice dmg chunk taken from us.

In addition to this change, we also needed to address the "mana battery" roles in a raid. The mana regeneration effect they grant is no longer limited to their own party, and it no longer depends on the amount of damage they deal. Each time they trigger the mana regeneration effect, 10 people in their raid group will receive a buff which causes them to regenerate 0.5% of their maximum mana each second. This buff, Replenishment, will be given preferentially to raid members with the lowest mana, but will re-evaluate which raid members receive it each time it is fired. Replenishment is provided by Shadow Priests, Survival Hunters, and Retribution Paladins.

This confirms it for me sp's need to either pump out shed loads more dmg than we do now or we dont get a raid spot its pretty simple we bring no real utility to the raid. Also what i highlighted does that mean mana regen now suffers from a hidden cd?

[Elicium]

First I know this is beta and I'm hoping things will change. Also, please remember that this is supposed to be a discussion. It's been really interesting (except for a few people that say stuff like "I'm tired of people saying this is the death of a class" - those people really need to read the forums before putting their foot in their mouth).

In terms of shadow priests, the Death of the priest? thread had been talking about less utility for them because of some changes. A lot of us were curious as it seemed like SPs were getting more damage (is Vampiric Touch down to 2 percent mana regen was giving more mana regen then in TBC). We talked about raid viability, etc...

Anyway, it was a fun and interesting read.

Today I read:

-Shadow Weaving: Buffs only self.
-Misery: Causes spells cast at the target to have +3% spell hit.
-Vampiric Touch: Grants Replenishment mana regeneration buff to up to 10 raid members on dealing damage.

Hmmmm.....

When Blizz said they were working on SPs, a lot of us thought expect that the changes would benefit not hurt SPs in Wotlk beta.

I do hope Blizzard makes some changes that might be a bit more positive ().

Right now, (if I understand this and yes, this is subject to change as it is a beta), SPs dps just took a huge hit (regardless of the new talent tree in Wotlk) 15% less dps is a lot.

Our utility in a raid just took a hit:

So that's 5% less damage to SPs and we no longer helping locks by increasing their shadow damage by 15% and other casters no longer get 5% extra dmg. This will also means health regen will be lowered (not the end of the world) and also mana regen is a triggered effects and is not related to the amount of dmg we do...???


Again, while this is a beta and maybe Blizz will make some positive changes (stop laughing it might happen), I would like to express what I'm thinking as I digest the latest news: FUCK!

Well it seems like today is a bad day to be a Shadow Priest.

Maybe we should form a union and go on strike - any ideas for some slogans?

[Calaba]

Of course, shadow priests DPS is going to have to be SERIOUSLY buffed now, to bring it in line with survival hunters and ret paladins.
(hopefully this means our DPS goes up, not hunters and palas DPS going down lol)

[Retronius]

You know, I noticed that not a lot of ppl are talking about the Grace talent nerf. I thought it would be cool b/c it would make a Disc priest have more raid utility... and before it even goes on the market (I don't have a beta key  :'( ) it gets nerfed down to just 3% flat reduction in dmg taken. Still nice, but not enough to warrant a raid slot, when holy priests can just heal for a lot more.

Oh, well, my disc build was a nice dream while it lasted... :-\

[shyg]

I was confident that beneficial changes were on the way, but this last build broke Shadow PvE and to a less extent Disc raid viability.

A poster a few spots above me summed up some of the problems, to reiterate:

Misery is now 3% spell hit. Not only is this a massive nerf in utility (most classes go for hit cap anyway, it won't be more than 60 or so spell hit at 80) it will not stack with Improved Faerie Fire. Considering Boomkin already did better DPS than shadow priests, and at this point Boomkin aura is probably a better raid DPS increase than VT, Shadow Priests probably just lost a spot to yet another class.

The nerf to Shadow Weaving, while not as big a deal since most locks are going Fire anyway, still reduces synergy with the remaining afflic locks as well as Death Knights.

And Finally, VT only affecting 10 members. This won't affect 10 man raiding, but in 25 man raiding it undoubtedly makes Shadow Priests inferior to Frost Mages as a mana battery, and probably Surv Hunters as well. In particular, the logic of having it be 10 people instead of the party, or 25 is ridiculous. What is the basis for making classes more viable in 10 mans than 25 mans?

And one thing the Elicium missed: ISB is now self-only. This is a 5-15% damage nerf, depending on the ISB uptime of your raid. Not only did Shadow Priest utility take a hit today, but the damage did too. In my opinion, and I hope I'm wrong, this is a nail in the coffin for shadowpriests as of now.

We need damage buffs, and we need them before 3.0. Otherwise the golden days of Shadow raiding are over.

(yes yes, I know, TEH SKY IS FALLIN')

[Rebornz]

They did mentioned about a new talent, just pray its some good talent for the disc users.

[talitu]

im lucky im not in one of these guilds that only takes perfect synergy . but seriously look every single class out there has tons of these were doomed threads. i really find it hard to belive that SP are going to massively suck in LK.

[Brasko]

And Finally, VT only affecting 10 members. This won't affect 10 man raiding, but in 25 man raiding it undoubtedly makes Shadow Priests inferior to Frost Mages as a mana battery, and probably Surv Hunters as well. In particular, the logic of having it be 10 people instead of the party, or 25 is ridiculous. What is the basis for making classes more viable in 10 mans than 25 mans?

In addition to this change, we also needed to address the "mana battery" roles in a raid. The mana regeneration effect they grant is no longer limited to their own party, and it no longer depends on the amount of damage they deal. Each time they trigger the mana regeneration effect, 10 people in their raid group will receive a buff which causes them to regenerate 0.5% of their maximum mana each second. This buff, Replenishment, will be given preferentially to raid members with the lowest mana, but will re-evaluate which raid members receive it each time it is fired. Replenishment is provided by Shadow Priests, Survival Hunters, and Retribution Paladins.

[Darkestdemon]

im lucky im not in one of these guilds that only takes perfect synergy . but seriously look every single class out there has tons of these were doomed threads. i really find it hard to belive that SP are going to massively suck in LK.

MY guild does not go for perfect raid comps i mean we have run with elm shaman ret pala and boomkin since ssc/tk and still do to this day in sunwell. The fact of the matter is without some drastic changes there is no need to bring a sp's to the raid, our dmg sucks we have no real utility that cant be brought my another class who will do more dmg than us. So as things currently stand if your guild takes you to a raid its due to pure and simple kindless because having you wont really be helping them out.

[shyg]

In addition to this change, we also needed to address the "mana battery" roles in a raid. The mana regeneration effect they grant is no longer limited to their own party, and it no longer depends on the amount of damage they deal. Each time they trigger the mana regeneration effect, 10 people in their raid group will receive a buff which causes them to regenerate 0.5% of their maximum mana each second. This buff, Replenishment, will be given preferentially to raid members with the lowest mana, but will re-evaluate which raid members receive it each time it is fired. Replenishment is provided by Shadow Priests, Survival Hunters, and Retribution Paladins.

Thanks, I missed this change and it does set my mind at ease as far as the balance of mana batteries will be.

[infernalx]

I don't think a serious guild will even get the thought of bringing a Shadow Priest into a raid. Like OP said, the damage output will increase considerably but their usefulness will decrease a lot (note that Shadow priests have always been UTILITY not DPS like locks or mages).

I'm pretty sure Locks will continue to do more damage than shadow priests and so will mages and possibly shamans so tell me, is there a reason why a serious guild (not a casual one like a kara one) should bring more than 2 or even 1 to a raid?

It can't be shadow weaving because that doesn't benefit the raid at all and certainly can't be VT because the mana returned to party is barely anything considering healers will be a little more mana efficient and will have larger mana pools as well as more ways to regen mana. Misery could be useful but I'm not quite sure how easy it is going to be for casters to obtain hit rating, if it's as easy as it is right now, Shadow priests are just useless imo.
But that's just my PVE perspective, I'm sure shadow priests will have a way better time in PvP. I guess next time we shouldn't "Ask" for buffs in certain parts of the game because blizzard goes all the way instead of just a little.

[MortuariusBC]

I don't think a serious guild will even get the thought of bringing a Shadow Priest into a raid. Like OP said, the damage output will increase considerably but their usefulness will decrease a lot (note that Shadow priests have always been UTILITY not DPS like locks or mages).

I'm pretty sure Locks will continue to do more damage than shadow priests and so will mages and possibly shamans so tell me, is there a reason why a serious guild (not a casual one like a kara one) should bring more than 2 or even 1 to a raid?

It can't be shadow weaving because that doesn't benefit the raid at all and certainly can't be VT because the mana returned to party is barely anything considering healers will be a little more mana efficient and will have larger mana pools as well as more ways to regen mana. Misery could be useful but I'm not quite sure how easy it is going to be for casters to obtain hit rating, if it's as easy as it is right now, Shadow priests are just useless imo.
But that's just my PVE perspective, I'm sure shadow priests will have a way better time in PvP. I guess next time we shouldn't "Ask" for buffs in certain parts of the game because blizzard goes all the way instead of just a little.

shadow locks got nerfed badly
DS is 5% less
impr sbolt is only self
misery 3% hit now
shad weaving self buff now

and looking at the lock upper destr talents seem blizz really wants us to be fire

[koder]

the frost mage mana batery was been totaly nerfed in the last build so sp will once again be the class to must have for mana, with the advantade of greater improve of damage.
in the other hand in 5mens priest is an amazing healer i think in 10 and 25 will show that also.

[Anglarana]

As said in an above post, the scaling of dps from SP versus locks and mages will become closer but no where close as the dps either of them does.

With the changes of misery / shd weaving and our improved dps this will mean that lock and mage dps will be nerfed big time while we stay at the same level of dps in general.

We will become more mana conservative and give a raid wide VT soon which will be awesome to have. And seeing frost mages got nerfed a bit as well, we will stay the sole suppliers of mana again.

What i am wondering though is if the new misery will stack or not. If it stacks it would be imba to have more than 1 SP in a raid. 3% hit per SP would mean bye bye hitrating and welcome to haste and critrating, not just for us but for other casters as well. I cant say anything about the melee peeps seeing i dont have 1 :P

Ranged dee pee es ftw

[Nogi]

we will stay the sole suppliers of mana again.

with the hunters and retridins

[Mayhem]

What i am wondering though is if the new misery will stack or not. If it stacks it would be imba to have more than 1 SP in a raid. 3% hit per SP would mean bye bye hitrating and welcome to haste and critrating, not just for us but for other casters as well.

well welcome to the new better world of warcraft, feary fire does the same debuff, no it doesn´t stack, haha

[Elicium]

Blue Post: (link: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...=2000&pageNo=3 )

We'll be increasing Mind Flay's coefficient (base) by roughly 30% to start, and allow Mind Flay to crit. We may also do some tuneups to the Shadow tree as well, but as other players have mentioned the tree is really not the problem, just the base spells not scaling.

Hopefully we can get the new Mind Flay in the next build, but allowing it to crit involves rebuilding the spell completely, which may take some time.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class Designer


First reaction: Youpee!

However....

The upgrade to MF is great. Still a bit worries though.

While the upgrade to MF is great - I still don't like the range issue associated with it or the fact that we're stationary.

Scaling is still the root problem (that's why we end up at the lower end in Sunwell) and so far there is nothing about fixing this basic issue (although they have acknowledged it).

Things are definately looking up for SPs.

[Calaba]

Blue Post: (link: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...=2000&pageNo=3 )

We'll be increasing Mind Flay's coefficient (base) by roughly 30% to start, and allow Mind Flay to crit. We may also do some tuneups to the Shadow tree as well, but as other players have mentioned the tree is really not the problem, just the base spells not scaling.

Hopefully we can get the new Mind Flay in the next build, but allowing it to crit involves rebuilding the spell completely, which may take some time.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class Designer


First reaction: Youpee!

However....

The upgrade to MF is great. Still a bit worries though.

While the upgrade to MF is great - I still don't like the range issue associated with it or the fact that we're stationary.

Scaling is still the root problem (that's why we end up at the lower end in Sunwell) and so far there is nothing about fixing this basic issue (although they have acknowledged it).

Things are definately looking up for SPs.

Umm.... Inscription Glyphs to boost mindflay's range, perhaps? Oh, and, this DOES fix the DPS scaling issue by quite a lot, as mind flay will be spammed more as it re-applies SW:P, so any steps to improve its coefficient will improve scaling quite a bit. Matter of fact, fixing mind flay's scaling will fix shadow priest scaling completely, as VT scales properly already.
As for the fact that we're stationary.... shadow priests will still have SW and VE to cast, which you can do while moving. Most classes are actually pretty stationary while doing maximum DPS.