DPS plate...

[Maverick494]

with the spell dmg change and BoL change FoL hits for about 1500ish , 1700 with wings and crits for 2kish, 2.2k with wings as well as putting a HoT up.

How much freaking spell damage do you have?

Even with 1968 AP (what I have in PVP gear atm) = 590.4 SD. FOL still a .42 coeff? If so 590.4 * .42 = 247.97. 247.97 + 832 (avg flash of light @ level 80) = 1079.97. In order to get 400 more out of FOL you would have to have 950 more AP for a total of 2918 AP. I know you can get 525 AP from might, but are we really going to be able to get 425 more AP beyond that?

If we are that is awesome and I am looking forward to that. It, however, even more reinforces my belief they should have based our skills off of AP alone instead of a combination AP and SD. If they wanted us to offheal they could have given us a non-cast time HoT + cooldown in that talent with str -> int and modified SoC (since that is really the only skill in the tree that still scales with SD) to scale with AP, when they changed judgements they could've then made them scale with both AP and SD so that they ended up relatively the same no matter which stat they were scaling on.

[Samiel]

With Int not being on our gear anymore, we can get Str Instead on said gear, couple that with Divine Strength, and the Glyph that lets 10% of BoM's AP boost, be a Spell Damage Boost, and TADA! 400 AP's worth of Spell Damage

[Deleted]

Well, first of all, Seals are on a 2 minute timer and doesn't dispel them when you judge.

Don't make me run numbers because i don't have them.

I suppose we could look at something like this:

Seal up: 14% mana.
CS: 6% mana.
DivS: 12% mana.

Grand total of 32% of the total BASE mana.
I don't know what's the base mana for a paladin at 80 but i just know you can aproximately deal about 2-3k damage with a single judgement.

Judgement of the wise gives you back 60% of that mana, granting, let's say, 1800-2000 mana per judgement.

question is, is our mana spent LESS than 1800-2000 every 8 seconds?

If yes, our mana problems doesn't exist.

If not, we have to care and integrate our gear with intellect or mana regeneration. Or just pump up strength till our judgement refunds us enough mana.

I don't really see the problem here.

(While a problem might come up while using heals. But i think Divine Plea was made for that. And anyway you could just use judgement of wisdom on the target and let it tick while you fight.)

[patryn150]

2 words....

Hybrid...

Class...

You can spec to DPS all you want, there is the occasion that you will have to heal yourself or someone else in order to keep your team or raid alive. Your purpose is to bring flexibility and utility to the group, not JUST damage. That's what Rogues, Warlocks and Mages are for.

The people who continue to bring up the point that "Oh, and hurt your DPS!" for any argument regarding tossing out heals and such are the same people who won't be using the new Hand of Salvation ability to keep your raid alive or Hand of Freedom to free a key member getting wailed on in PVP.

[Tigercat]

Knowing you can step back in a clutch and toss a heal is one thing. Planning ahead to throw a heal at X timeframe and working it into your "dps" rotation is another.

[Maverick494]

2 words....

Hybrid...

Class...

You can spec to DPS all you want, there is the occasion that you will have to heal yourself or someone else in order to keep your team or raid alive. Your purpose is to bring flexibility and utility to the group, not JUST damage. That's what Rogues, Warlocks and Mages are for.

The people who continue to bring up the point that "Oh, and hurt your DPS!" for any argument regarding tossing out heals and such are the same people who won't be using the new Hand of Salvation ability to keep your raid alive or Hand of Freedom to free a key member getting wailed on in PVP.

Raid leaders do NOT bring ret paladins to off heal anything. They bring them for DPS. Arena teams do not bring ret paladins to off heal, they bring them for DPS and a couple other things (like HoF/HoP and cleansing). If you think that, as a ret paladin, anyone brings you for your offhealing ability you are clearly as retarded as the devs of this game.

Ret paladins primary reason for being in a group is damage, secondary to that it is other things (in wrath) like mana regen, pass damage increase and blessings. That's your primary function. If you heal with flash of light in PvP and it helps a little bit, great, it is not your primary concern. If you have any mana you are more likely to help better by doing something other than healing, as I pointed out before.

Hybrid class or not your primary concerns and secondary concerns do not involve healing. Healing is a last resort in most cases and is sometimes more detrimental than just doing your primary function.

[Deleted]

Knowing you can step back in a clutch and toss a heal is one thing. Planning ahead to throw a heal at X timeframe and working it into your "dps" rotation is another.

Closes the thread pretty much.

He's right and you know it.

[Maverick494]

Closes the thread pretty much.

He's right and you know it.

That really doesn't have anything to do with how much mana we have and the availability of effects to regen it. Nor does it change the fact that scaling ret with only AP is way easier to do than trying to scale it with both AP and SD.

DPS plate in wrath has no +int. We have no +int talent. We are going to be running with a base mana pool. JoTW at this point appears to be enough to offset the costs of DPS. If I have to step back and heal in a pinch, is it going to be realistic with a base mana pool, even if JoTW can regen the mana spent healing, freedoming, protectioning, etc.? If the answer is no, then we either need gear with +int or we need to have a +int talent to allow for the fact that when not DPSing we spend quite a bit of mana to do our "supporting" abilities.

My only point is that they could've done a full conversion to an AP based scaling with +int talent with a HoT side effect than trying (once again) to scale ret with AP and SD.

[Mugjoo]

So it appears in beta that all the DPS plate is pretty much warrior gear, no int at all. Where do we get our int from to maintain our damage level? Is our mana regen that good in wrath that we can get away with a barely above a base mana pool? If it is that good, will it stay that way or are we going to get nerfed and be in dire need of int again?

warriors ftw

[Varaben]

There is no longer melee and spell crit,
This is my spell crit in my ret gear:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...208_192547.jpg

exactly, and its amazing how uninformed some people are....Do you guys realy not realize hit, crit, haste are all melee+spell in the expac?

[Crispybacon]

1.889? Are you sure about that? Because the current healing coefficient is like .42 or something (for flash).

[b37x]

Let's say you have 1889 +healing in your healadin set. Well in WOTLK, you'll have 1000 spell power instead.

1000 spell power * 1.889healing / spell power = 1889 +healing.
1000 spell power * 1spelldamage / spell power = 1000 +damage.

[Rawberry]

1.889? Are you sure about that? Because the current healing coefficient is like .42 or something (for flash).

There is a difference between how much extra oomph a healing spell gains from +healing (coefficient) and the +spellpower to +healing conversion.

As a few said before 1 spellpower boils down to 1.889 healing.

[Vorpal]

lol chill ppl

[Moar Pew Pew]

The talent "Sheath of Light", like all items and caster talents, grants "spellpower", a condensed stat that encompasses both +dmg and +heals.

1 spellpower is supposedly the equivalent of 1.889 +healing, and thus your above stats grant the equivalent of:
1115.2656 healing. ... as the dps spec.
total of 468.411552 (F**K significant digits) healing bonus on rank 9 FoL:
Heals a friendly target for 785 to 879.
785+468.4 to 879+468.4 = 1253 to 1347, or 1879.5 to 2020.5 crit (edit point), plus 1127.7 to 1212.3 over 12 seconds.

1253 - 1347
3007.2 - 3232.8 crit.

that is DECENT healing caused considering the facts:
we will have approximately equal melee and spell critical chances
ret is intended to "OH S**TING HELL THE PRIEST GOT WINDF**INGFURIED TO S**TING HELL, HELP GET HIM BACK TO NOT DYING!!!!!!!!" heal, aka "offheal", aka "were paladins, not warriors that use mana".

Enjoy your shiny new class-making talent.

^ Maverick got ownd on this one.

[Maverick494]

SO I am bumping this post again, because my fears have come true. JoTW was nerfed, and now ret paladins are running OOM in under a minute in some cases. So now we not only don't have enough mana to DPS, but we sure as hell aren't going to heal. SO what do we do now with this crap ass DPS gear they are making us use?

[deo]

use mail hunter gear with int, problem solved.

if only it were that simple..