moonkin polish on the way

[doomkin11]

i think starfall is the worth 51 pt talent in the game atm


blizzard stop being retards you shouldnt be able to dispell stars falling from the sky and you shouldnt be able to spell steal also...

its going to be our only chance against rogues and they give us a shit talent


thanks alot koraa

[cyberia]

Build 8885:

- on the overall, the latest changes in the upper part of balance tree are more in the favor of resto than the moonkins. There are some good talents now in upper balance (including some that should only be in the deeper tree), and basically this situation will convert many ppls from resto to restokins. That is what was intended?
- about the effect for the moonkins, there arent so many differences.
- the upper resto was fixed for balance, now it means all moonkins will have 16 or at least 13 points in resto, and by doing that the bloating of the lower balance tree becomes unbearable and ugly.

- the lower part of balance tree is still bloated and needs addressing in several aspects:
1)separating a very small number of pve and pvp talents ('say 2 arrowed talents for each)
2) ImpFF has two issues: duration and too many points spent (3)
3) also Vengeance has too many points (5) for an exact effect that other classes get with exact 1 point (check shaman's similar talent)
4) lack of -chance to be dispelled, for balance dots;
5) tbh, last tile talent is a total joke;
- quite a few things more

[Deleted]

I'll quote someone in the official forums:

I'm not saying that all complaints aren't valid, but people should really look a bit more at some of the points.
-Genesis : in it's current state it's a resto talent, not a balance talent. Do you see resto druids complain about Furor ?

-3 points in Nature's splendor to get one extra tick : no, wotlk implements partial ticks. If your Insect swarms gets 1s longer than base time, you'll get a tick for half damage at the end. Also you'll have to take into account all the glyphs to increase our dot damage + moonfire duration. Still i'm looking at an infinite moonfire at the moment (from glyphs), which makes half of the talent somewhat useless.

-dps pushback resistance : oh hey did you look at Nature's Focus before complaining ? "OH NOES, THERE'S NO BALANCE THREAT REDUCTION IN SUBTLETY ANYMORE, WE ARE DOOMED !"

-Celestial focus : i'm not sure wether you realise how well haste scales. Also 3% haste means something like 100 haste rating at lvl 80 which isn't that shaby.

- so we really have to spend 16 points into resto : the 4 points you spend in resto have a better efficiency than equivalent talents in balance, you trade one for the other instead of taking both (ie it doesn't change anything to the bloat).

[PaleFolklore]

I'm not saying that all complaints aren't valid, but people should really look a bit more at some of the points.
-Genesis : in it's current state it's a resto talent, not a balance talent. Do you see resto druids complain about Furor ?

The thing is, this was the Moonkin polish, not the resto polish, it was announced by Koraa that way.
So they went ahead and added a bunch of resto talents that, because of the bloat, we won't be taking anyway (and they are terrible for balance even if we did) and then they go ahead and say the first tiers of the Balance tree are pretty much done, that's the issue.

-3 points in Nature's splendor to get one extra tick : no, wotlk implements partial ticks. If your Insect swarms gets 1s longer than base time, you'll get a tick for half damage at the end. Also you'll have to take into account all the glyphs to increase our dot damage + moonfire duration. Still i'm looking at an infinite moonfire at the moment (from glyphs), which makes half of the talent somewhat useless.

You are just proving his point, you still need 3 points for an extra tick, 1 and 2 points will get you a partial tick. 3 Points for 1 tick is not a good dps increase, someone in the official forums (live) did the math for this talent and genesis, the dps increase for both of them was terrible, even factoring in the new glyphs.

-dps pushback resistance : oh hey did you look at Nature's Focus before complaining ?

1- The complaint was just about Wrath in PvP, and Wrath got added to the tooltip after that post. It only included roots and cyclone when the realm was still down, and Koraa only mentioned Control of Nature being merged with Nature's Focus, she didn't mention Celestial Focus' Wrath component. So yes, this point isn't valid because it got fixed, but the complain was because they didn't update the tooltip and Koraa overlooked it when she mentioned merging Nature's focus with other talents.

-Celestial focus : i'm not sure wether you realise how well haste scales. Also 3% haste means something like 100 haste rating at lvl 80 which isn't that shaby.

3% haste is 47 haste rating at level 70, for 3 talent points that's a huge point sink. They should not mix this talent with the super-situational and PvP oriented Starfire/Starfall stun (Which is the complaint, not the 3% haste per se).

- so we really have to spend 16 points into resto : the 4 points you spend in resto have a better efficiency than equivalent talents in balance, you trade one for the other instead of taking both (ie it doesn't change anything to the bloat).

The problem is you have to spend 13 points in resto to scale with spirit.
Due to the gear homogenization, most (if not all) of your major raiding gear will have spirit. This doesn't give us any options, this makes Intensity incredibly required, which means it shouldn't be that far down the tree. Move it to tier 2, then the bloat will be much better. It'll make MSS and Natural SS completely optional.
They are doing this for Relentless Strikes and intensify rage (making them more accessible because they are "too required"), I don't see why they shouldn't do the same thing for Druids, considering just how important this talent is.

[Sarevokcz]

3) also Vengeance has too many points (5) for an exact effect that other classes get with exact 1 point (check shaman's similar talent)

tho other points are very valid, this one is just ... taken out of context

look at dreamstate, 3 points, for same effect as eleshaman for 5, moonglow, 3 points, 3% per rank, shaman 5 points, 2% per rank, what more, yours even consist several heals, nature majesty, 2 points, 2% crit per point for several damage and healing spells, call fo thunder 5 points, 1% crit per point for only 2 spells

yea, it sux your vengance is 5/5, frostmages got it also, firemages have for ignite also, talents are different for other classes, but if u want to compare talents, compare all of them, not just one, because then some jerk like me will show and write down talents, which are same examples, just from another side

tho balance tree SHOULD definately use some revamp, imo eclipse could be lower, EaM could be 3/3

[lurking]

I just want 'improved moonkin' back to old one

I think balance has three buffing and debuffing system

FF,E&M,swarm and these are enough to balance

what i'm tring to say is druid need more nuking system

and the old 'improved moonkin' is better than new one to nuking

I can accept that 'improved moonkin' is affected to myself only

[Skyte]

I took abit of thought and came out with this build for pvp...
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...05013035011251

The tree is just so damn bloated atm that i couldnt take genesis, dreamstate and ImpIS....none of them are worth the points imo given what they offer right now. In my most humble opinion, if i get around 3-4 more points to spend i'd be a happy pvp moonkin. I suggest this should either come from reduced talents points in Vengence/moonfury/E&M (5/5 to 3/3) or a more friendly resto tree. Master shapeshifter should be swapped with subtlety AT LEAST, so that we have to make a choice between that and furor, givng us extra 2 free talents to spend in the balance tree.

I'd be happy if i got points to put into ImpIS/dreamstate/E&M.

My 2 cents.

[Ravenblade]

[...]
and the old 'improved moonkin' is better than new one [...]

How much average haste did the old one give then?

[PaleFolklore]

How much average haste did the old one give then?

5.4% with 100% crit.
PvP is where the old IMKF really shined though.

Right now, swift retribution and imkf are both pretty dull and boring. Yes, they are pretty decent in a raid enviroment, but I'm pretty sure the devs can come up with something much more fun and interesting than 3% flat haste. They don't really have to buff those talents, just change the mechanics a bit for a similarily strong effect that doesn't feel so lackluster.

[Sarevokcz]

Right now, swift retribution and imkf are both pretty dull and boring.

as boring as totem, with which i have to buff my raid and at the same time debuff enemies?

[PaleFolklore]

as boring as totem, with which i have to buff my raid and at the same time debuff enemies?

Windfury totem was much more fun than it's current version. Blizzard is making incredibly boring spells and talents in order to balance PvE with more ease, which sucks.