Ret Pally gear in Wotlk: Missing Int?

[Shadowknight]

Hi, i was going over this site to see new realeased info on WotLK and came across the pally melee dps set (belt, boots and bracers, which is for war and DK aswell) and also the lvl 80 arena set for ret pally(which is pally only). Now i can understand how there would be no int on the belt boots and bracers, but on the lvl 80 arena gear it is missing aswell, and since i play a ret pally currently, i know how important our mana pools are and the missing int conserned me alittle. I'm wondering if someone who is in the beta could post up here if this lack of mana in a ret pallies mana pool is creating a problem for our dps since from what i can tell it seems we are gonna be stuck with just our base mana. And then gaining back some mana from our judgement spells(the judgements of the wise talent). (I'm not in the beta so i have no clue if we just don't need int anymore with all the changes) Thanks alot to anyone who posts.

[Tadin]

Haven't you heard? We're the new mana batteries!

[Rawberry]

Check out Judgements of the Wise, this basicly negates any need for a large mana pool.

[Shadowknight]

so the mana return from "Judgements of the Wise" is really that powerfull, to allow us to keep enough mana to use all of our moves? thats pritty cool then heh... but what about being mana drained. (pvp) like if u fight a priest or lock and they mana rape you and don't have the mana to cast a judgement? I know we have Divine plea but a good lock, hunter, or priest would never allow a ret pally to use it once there mana dead. It just seems to me kinda risky that the source of dps (our mana) is becoming more limited and now reliant that we cast a judgement to replenish. :-\

[Tadin]

bubble, throw a heal, evoca..."divine plea" and win win.

[Raptorg]

so the mana return from "Judgements of the Wise" is really that powerfull, to allow us to keep enough mana to use all of our moves? thats pritty cool then heh... but what about being mana drained. (pvp) like if u fight a priest or lock and they mana rape you and don't have the mana to cast a judgement? I know we have Divine plea but a good lock, hunter, or priest would never allow a ret pally to use it once there mana dead. It just seems to me kinda risky that the source of dps (our mana) is becoming more limited and now reliant that we cast a judgement to replenish. :-\

and what do we do now?

exactly.. the same thing

[Rawberry]

Or you could make sure you do not get mana drained...

Also, there is not a single class that can withstand getting manaburn spammed, so why should we be any different?

[PalliesThrowStuff]

Judgements are hitting for between 2 and 4k for the typical ret, last time I heard, which is a huge chunk of mana to be getting back, and dont forget that you'll probably always be judging wisdom, which also restores a huge amount of mana for a Ret Paladin on melee strikes.

We'll have to see how the number tweaking goes.

[Raptorg]

Or you could make sure you do not get mana drained...

Also, there is not a single class that can withstand getting manaburn spammed, so why should we be any different?

warlocks

[Shadowknight]

and what do we do now?

exactly.. the same thing

i'd beg to differ Raptorg, right now as a ret pally stands our judgements return only small bits and pieces of mana. "Sanctified Judgements" makes it so our judgements return 80% of the judged seals mana, which is basicly giving back 196 mana every 8 sec (assuming your judging command) this isnt a tool to restore your mana but reduce the cost of the seals, but from what i can tell the new talent and what ppl have been saying " Judgements of the Wise" is allowing us to give back enough mana so that we don't need large sums of mana anymore, where as right now we need a large mana pool since we don't have a large.. i'll call it a mana burst, to refund are mana pool, which basicly our mana system has become completely different. from medium mana pools slowly drains -- to low mana pools lasting indeffienatly? Do i have it right Tadin? Which then makes since for why theres no int on ret gear in WotLK... Thanks ^^

[Shadowknight]

Or you could make sure you do not get mana drained...

Also, there is not a single class that can withstand getting manaburn spammed, so why should we be any different?

well, rawberry the only difference is if our mana pool is so low thats its only base mana, then we are extremely vulnerable to being mana drained, (while i'm not sure what a WotLK ret pally typical mana pool looks like) its its close to base mana i'd imagine it'd be around 5k max at 80, that means while all the other mana based classes have int on their gear and have close to i'mthinking 15-16k mana(let me knwo if my numbers are off) with ret pallies having only 5k we become especially vulnerable to mana drain, mana burn etc.. even more than before than anyother class in the game. even more than now i'd imagine since i have 7k mana at 70 with my gear as ret and i still get mana burned bad, and at lvl 80 losing 2k mana and being hit with strounger versions of the spell is not gonna be a pritty sight. If i'm missing some info that makes it so this isn't as big a problem as i'm thinking plz let me know.

[Tadin]

If you go oom , you can use bubble for one mana drain and then evo on another time :P


Aaanyways, ret is funfun.

[Raptorg]

i'd beg to differ Raptorg, right now as a ret pally stands our judgements return only small bits and pieces of mana. "Sanctified Judgements" makes it so our judgements return 80% of the judged seals mana, which is basicly giving back 196 mana every 8 sec (assuming your judging command) this isnt a tool to restore your mana but reduce the cost of the seals, but from what i can tell the new talent and what ppl have been saying " Judgements of the Wise" is allowing us to give back enough mana so that we don't need large sums of mana anymore, where as right now we need a large mana pool since we don't have a large.. i'll call it a mana burst, to refund are mana pool, which basicly our mana system has become completely different. from medium mana pools slowly drains -- to low mana pools lasting indeffienatly? Do i have it right Tadin? Which then makes since for why theres no int on ret gear in WotLK... Thanks ^^

i don't think you understand what i was saying

i was implying we do nothing when drained dry, just the same we'll be doing in WotLK when drained dry

[Crow]

If you are not facing a druid you could just judge wisdom and one proc should every now and then (it should proc more in the expansion?) keeps you doing judgements.

Quote from wowhead (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?spell=53408)

5% of base mana at level 80 is 220 mana. It is not too expensive at all, one proc of JoW already makes up for the cast.

So I really dont see the problem.

[Abyssos]

How about prot paladins during mobs grinds and over geared 5-mans, still the huge mana problem? (we don't get Judgment of the wise )
How much mana retuned is it atm from just the Judgement of Wisdom per hit on the judged mob? (ret/prot/holy dosent matter just curious)

[Spamor]

Seal of Wisdom ( and judgment )scales with ap so strenght is good for tankadins

[Varaben]

str= more block value = more threat from the new shield slam as well as more white damage threat, and as mentioned above: more mana back from wisdom.

[Rawberry]

Strenght will be a fourth most desirable statistic at best.

Even though Blizzard has increased the block value gained from Strenght, it does not mean that you will be seeing an amazing increase in damage migation, thus the statistic will still be overshadowed by atleast Defence, Stamina and Block Rating.


With that said, and our attention on the not-to-great-to-begin-with coeffcients on Seal of Wisdom the Paladin will more than likely still rely heavily on Spiritual Attunement and probably even some mana potions for the more intensive fights.

[Voidseeker]

Strenght will be a fourth most desirable statistic at best.

Even though Blizzard has increased the block value gained from Strenght, it does not mean that you will be seeing an amazing increase in damage migation, thus the statistic will still be overshadowed by atleast Defence, Stamina and Block Rating.


With that said, and our attention on the not-to-great-to-begin-with coeffcients on Seal of Wisdom the Paladin will more than likely still rely heavily on Spiritual Attunement and probably even some mana potions for the more intensive fights.

Potion. Only get one per fight.

That and the fact that many classes are getting mana return abilities will allow most prot to do ok. But the beta testers have made Prot OOM known to the devs as one of our main tanking issues, and when the major class talent/spell overview happens we will see how they address the issue.

Paladins have not even been focused on yet, and we have a lot of issues fixed. Most of it should be resolved in a few builds when it will be Paladins turn to be the focus of the class devs.

[Xs]

they reverted potion sickness so they didn't have to do more work

also -30% cost on consecration should help.. if you bother to pick that talent up