Feral cat not needed by guilds?

[Pacifist]

Apparently I'm a retard for having a dps alt.

Sorry, i get bored of just heal,heal,heal.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...ath&n=Pacifist

[Zypox]

Arthor, if i were you i wouldn't post in this thread anymore.. You don't make any sense at all, and.. For future advise, try being a bit nicer.. Being just a bit mature and polite could take you a long way.. Or well, maybe it could.. What the hell do i know.. :s

[Finelle]

Same reason guilds dont take boomkins and ret pallies and hunters. The spec/class is good but only retards spec it. So its a case of why arent retards allowed into raids. People who spec cat and say im a cat druid are also the ones who go got to go mum says bed time and lf1m need tank

Your choice of insults speak volumes about you. You're insecure about your maturity. If I had to take a guess, you're just barely past the "got to go mum says bed time".

[Barbie]

In fact you need tank and healer and some dps in raiding content. No need for any particular class beside warrior for some fights.

There's no need to kick the rogue or the warlock or mage or something for a kitten only feral if the raid feels complete. And if a raid feels missing a bear or a tree that's what they are looking for. No need to complain for kittycats.

Last but not least it mostly likely depends on your "soft skills" if people want you to be in their raids:

• An old Cherokee was teaching his grandson about life.
  
  He said to the boy: “A fight is going on inside me. It is a tremble fight and it is between two wolves. One is evil – he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority and ego”.
  
  “The other – he continued – is good, he is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion and faith.”
  
  “The same fight is going on inside you and inside every other person, too.” – said the old man.
  
  The grandson then asked his grandfather: “And, which wolf will win grandpa?”
  
  “The one you feed, my son!” – simply replied the old Cherokee.

[Karpalo]

There really is only one viable way to play feral and that is as a tank. You can do dps when you are not tanking and that`s a big bonus ofc. But you could compare feral cats to smite priests really. There is one fundamental spec for pve in every tree for each class and cat obiviously is not going to make it raid viable alone.

[Iron]

melee dps druids will never be needed and never have been needed

/thread

[Lionhearte]

I say fuck all the other dps and give druids a bad ass boost to their dps with their new attack coming out called "Omfgownedlol"
http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?topic=13897.0

Then give us the ability to tank all mobs with 500k health and armor with the same spec, and can switch to resto gear to heal to full in an instant, and keep them full with hots forever. And let boomkins own all other casters in dps, and give them the ability to silence all targets forever, and a polymorph spell that turns other targets into space chickens, under the control of the boomkin, obviously.

Yea. Give us that.
And cookies too. I like cookies :3

On a more serious note, anyone here hear that loud explosion I just heard?
Was like a bomb just went off in the street. Scared the shit outta me.

[Karpalo]

ok edited bad comment :P out of date and even sligtly offensive to some ppl maybe... Where are bombs going off on the streets? :O

[Lionhearte]

No I don't live there lol.
Forget it, just some kids blowing up a truck.
Damn whippersnappers! ~_~

[svettleif]

Hunters useless, i guess u havent seen SK-gamings best brutallus kill...

http://wowwebstats.com/irdh6x6q2kldo?s=27917-54044

[Rathyl]

Few things here.
First, to address the kitties. Basically, if you want the kitty spot, you are applying as the offtank, the person who is there to help tank a boss as needed with the proper mitigation, but then can switch to be good DPS on your own when there is no need for the additional tank and that needed help. Feral druids are just meant to be placeholder tanks with good DPS, which is why they can be better than pallies or warriors in their preffered spot. Overall, I guess in response, what would you tell a druid who refused to go cat and stayed bear if he was not tanking a boss?

Second, in terms of the newfound debate. To word this a bit better, moonkins, hunters and retadins just happen to attratct the "wrong" crowds. They are plenty fine, but most people screw them up and can't play to the optimum that each of those classes can. Those who do can put out amazing numbers on the other hand, speaking from the crazy mix of raid experience I've had on my moonkin.

[Lysiander]

The simple answer is that raids are by definition limited in their numbers and hence, the only way to maximise your performance is to take *players* who are able and willing to play their spec to it's full potential. A druid who limits himself to catform simply doesn't do that.

I am a raidleader and while most of the time I take whoever signed up for the raid, when I do get to pick people I look for those who play their spec to it's fullest. If a druid told me he would be kitty only in my raid he simply wouldn't be in my raid because another player (druid or non druid) will bring more to the raid by virtue of his attitude alone.
As someone else said, people have the right to play whatever way they like, but they do not have the right to have their ass dragged along by 9 or 24 other players just because they want to play the way they like and only the way they like. If you aren't willing to do what it takes, don't sign up for everyone's sake.

As for cat DPS in general. We don't scale well currently, simple as that. When a RL is faced with the choice of a feral druid and any other DPS class for a DPS slot, he will most likely take the other classes unless he feels that Innervate and Battleress make up for the loss in DPS (given there are enough tanks already.). This is rarely the case these days beyond Karazhan.

[Drac]

So the general idea is the following about "Feral Kittens" =Totally worthless in raids..

I hear you and i disagree..

Sure we have problems with our DPS not scaling aswell as other DPS Classes and people tend to feel we might aswell OT if we tag along to SSC/BT etc..

I faced the same "comments" as posted in this thread about feral dps not beeing up at the same level as the other DPS classes, so my option was to come as OT if i wanted to raid at all..

So what did i do?

I proved 'em wrong. Lots of RL just go with the general opinion regarding feral dps that its basically, c r a p. Well it isnt if you know how to play the spec and got the gear for it. Nowadays i basically come as DPS 95% of the time when we raid, the other 5% i OT or respec resto.

The problem is that a lot of people got a narrow mind, if they've ever played with a "bad" player playing the kitten DPS spec they just figure that all ferals are worthless in DPS.

Well you are wrong.

Sure i dont TOP DPS in all raids, but im up at top 5 in Kara, Gruul, Mag, SSC and BT.

Am i really too worthless to bring to a raid as DPS?

Learn to play the class and spec you whine about, you might acctually learn something and post threads based on facts instead of a "general opinion".

Im glad to see that Blizzard is getting some work done on "our behalf" regarding the DPS perhaps then people will stop referring to us kitten dps as "worthless".

[mandrus]

Well I got two druids and with new warrior's Rampage cat druids brings nothing for raid synergy. Only self buffs.

So yeah pretty much useless raid wise and I bet that it won't over dps any of melee including retri pala.

Boomkin is twice as good and resto triple. Waste of raid spot imo.

@ Drac, WWS please. If you realy are top 5 with 1300 dps that is realy interesting. I guess you are including trash "dps" aswell.

[Couga]

Well I got two druids and with new warrior's Rampage cat druids brings nothing for raid synergy. Only self buffs.

So yeah pretty much useless raid wise and I bet that it won't over dps any of melee including retri pala.

Boomkin is twice as good and resto triple. Waste of raid spot imo.

@ Drac, WWS please. If you realy are top 5 with 1300 dps that is realy interesting. I guess you are including trash "dps" aswell.

1300 dps isn't hard to reach as a Feral - the main problem is that we cap out at 2000 dps (and that's with maxium buffs, chain chugging haste pots)
And in TBC any class/spec that can breach 1500 dps (the Brutalllus threshold) whilst providing some sorts of utility can be regarded an asset. I know I'd take a good feral over a crappy "insert random dps class here" anyday - at the end of the day it's the player and not the class that matters (even if Feral Druids are somewhat restricted when it comes to dps)


In WotLK we will be able to chose whether we want a bear or Cat centred spec
Now with a bear heavy spec you will be tanking 80-100% of the time and with the kitty spec you will probably dps ~70% of the time and tanking encounters where 4 tanks are required rather than 3.
Now bringing 2 Ferals to a raid makes little sense no matter what their specialisation (unless your are short of either dps or tanks ;p) as you can easily can fill one slot with a class/spec that will provide something unique.
A raiding cat will be very viable in conjunction with an Arms warrior (instead of Fury) as both these classes/specs have a big synergy with each other - LotP makes up for loss of Rampage, 2% increase in physical damage not as good as it used to be but still a nice little buff, improved Battle shout and the currently stacking(hope that stays that way) Trauma and Mangle Debuff increasing Bleed damage by 69%.

Druid dps overall will have a huge increase due to talent and energy regeneration changes anyway, but as we are still due for a class review it may still be too early to say as to whether those buffs will be enough to catapult us into the 90% of rogue dps range.

[Lysiander]

So the general idea is the following about "Feral Kittens" =Totally worthless in raids..

I hear you and i disagree..

No, the generel idea is that "Feral Kittens" are what you might call "half a character". Think along the lines of a Fire Specced Mage who flat out refuses to use arcane spells, including sheep. That is what makes RL's refuse them in raids and that is what people criticise.

While feral druids aren't "fine" in raids currently, the do manage. That is because they use all of their abilities and that includes bringing tank gear and going bear when the raid requires it. A druid with the attitude "I'm a cat and I won't tank" is plain and simply refusing to play his spec and his char to the fullest of it's potential and by extension, attempting to defy the very basis raid setups are build upon: to get the maximal amount of performance out of a fixed number of slots.

When a mage refuses to sheep, you kick him from your group because it is a usefull ability that makes your group/ raid perform more effectively. A feral druid refusing to tank is basically the same thing, with the slight difference that we got the short end of the stick by blizzard and actually have to gear for it. In the essence however, it is the same thing.

[Elektrik]

This really isn't hard.

Lets start in BC:

If you take a feral druid and a rogue/warrior/enh shaman with equal gear and skill, the druid will do less damage. Unleashed rage & totems > feral crit, battle shout = feral crit, and rogues just do that much more damage that they don't need a buff to be better.

Sure, if you're friends with a guild leader or something, then yeah you'll get into raids to dps. Barring this circumstance, there is absolutely ZERO reason for you to be taken over another melee dps class. (This is from a strictly cat standpoint - i'm not talking about offtanking). Overall, you contribute less to the raid than even the rogue that brings no buffs to the table.

WotLK:

Again, we have the same problem except now its even worse. While before ferals were taken to offtank and do mediocre dps while not tanking, the feral bloat will make it so you'll only be able to do one at the level we could in BC. Now...the only thing that might make a difference! Mangle. Arms warriors will be dishing out a lot of damage, and may be formidable dpsers. A large part of their damage will be bleeds, which as we all know, are increased by mangle.

If mangle makes a large enough difference on warrior bleeds and rupture - and the raid has tanks that aren't bears - a cat might warrant a raid spot. It is possible that the increased bleed damage AND the feral crit will outweigh some melee dps classes.

But anyway, if you think ferals warrant a raid dps spot currently, you don't know much about the game.

[Furo]

I think the problem about that is that Blizz now clearly seperated the Tank and the DPS feral druid. Ofc we can still do both with the same specc, but niether one optimal (with optimal use of druids abilitys) as long as we dont specc for pure tanking or pure damage dealing.
The point about this is not that a 'cat' druid refuses to tank (on trashes or easy bosses), its rather that he cant tank optimal but neither can offer the dps of any other dps class, neither it does not offer any buffs a tank druid does not.
So basically it is still, even with 2 ways of speccing a feral, just one spot for ferals in raids, wich will be always filled with a fully tank specced feral since tanks scale better than cats. Maybe there will be even no feral spot at all since we get better offtanking dps warriors and ofc dks. I'm quite sure in that case any raid would rather take a rogue or anything else dpswise than a feral druid.

[Tripp]

A lot of people don't think that cat dps is crap (it's fine if you know how to play) it's that they don't think it's fair that the druid class should have 4 specs going to a raid when other classes are struggling to get all 3. There are only 25 spots available total how is bringing a Feral dps and a Feral tank remotely fair? Druids have a dps spec and it's Balance, having a cat Druid go over a Balance Druid for example seems silly to me.

[Bullshifter]

That's not a druid's "dps" spec. That's a caster spec. Feral is a melee spec. Resto is a healer spec. Both their caster and melee spec should be "fine" in dps. Around 90% of the emulated classes dps.

I do believe though that ferals that are only willing to do kitty dps and aren't prepared to do any offtanking at least, really aren't bringing much to the table for a raid. We do good, even great dps at Kara levels. But we fall off to around a 50% mark as compared to a rogue at the BT/SW level. That in my opinion is "ok" enough to warrant a spot...if you are willing to OT as well on the fights that need an extra tank.