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  1. #21

    Re: Elemental Build at lvl 80

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohmar
    You are missing Storm, Earth, and Fire there as well.

    Also, the build Nahesan had didn't have any points into Elemental Oath. Those 2 were allocated in Lava Flows as the below shows:
    http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...00000000000000

    Also, quick question. Once you hit 2000 spellpower, and you change your talent point allotments, doesn't that mean you will drop back down to 1200 spellpower? So in theory, the limit is 1200 spellpower, since you will be losing 800 according to Sarevokcz. If thats the case, then with my trinket and ring procs, i hit around 1600 as is, so my build would suit me best at this point correct?
    yep, SEF is missing, tho i counted on LB coef, forgot about flameshock dot, however, it doesnt change anything

    in the later build, u can always scrap 2/3 lavaflows and put them into elemental oath


  2. #22

    Re: Elemental Build at lvl 80

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohmar
    Can you please point to where your build has Elemental Oath because it looks like theres 0 points in Elemental Oath, but thats just me.
    To quote myself:
    Quote Originally Posted by Nanhesan
    Until you have more than 2000 spell power http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?sham...10300000000000 is still the best DPS build possible. Check EJ, do the math yourself, whatever you want if you don't believe it -- but it's true.
    ... might want to check that link? I see 2 in EO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohmar
    As for the unbuffed 2000 spell dmg, this would mean you would need 2800 unbuffed spellpower before YOU say we would be better off without the 28 points in Enhancement.
    I said 2000 unbuffed spell power. I don't know why you keep trying to turn that into 1200-2800 unbuffed spell power. Let me say it real loud, for the cheap seats: 2000 UNBUFFED. NOT 1200. NOT 2800. 2000. AS IN, YOU HAVE 2000. Here's the quote where I have already corrected your false numbers in a previous post:
    I said 2000 unbuffed spell power. That would be before Storm, Earth and Fire or MQ are included. Reading comprehension.
    As for the last statement:

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohmar
    That seems a little excessive, because for one, until you hit 80 and get epic gear, you wont even get near that.
    What's your point? All this does is agree with the statements I made in a passive-aggressive manner. You need to be more like me: 1)straight up aggressive, not that passive-aggressive BS, 2)knows what they are talking about, 3)see 2.


  3. #23

    Re: Elemental Build at lvl 80

    Quote Originally Posted by Nanhesan
    To quote myself: ... might want to check that link? I see 2 in EO.

    I said 2000 unbuffed spell power. I don't know why you keep trying to turn that into 1200-2800 unbuffed spell power. Let me say it real loud, for the cheap seats: 2000 UNBUFFED. NOT 1200. NOT 2800. 2000. AS IN, YOU HAVE 2000. Here's the quote where I have already corrected your false numbers in a previous post:
    As for the last statement:

    What's your point? All this does is agree with the statements I made in a passive-aggressive manner. You need to be more like me: 1)straight up aggressive, not that passive-aggressive BS, 2)knows what they are talking about, 3)see 2.
    Stop being so close minded and stop acting like you arent understanding the logic here. Ill lay it out for you, since you seem to want to overlook what I I and Sarevokcz had said in previous posts.

    You say you need 2000 unbuffed spell power, which with your build at 2000, would be 1200 in my build. Then you also stated that the 2000 unbuffed was before MQ was added in.

    Sarevokcz said that the equivalent spellpower gained by using MQ+MD would be rougly 800 spell power, which means that with your theory, that you would need 2800 spellpower unbuffed before you redid your talents since you would be losing 800 spellpower when reallocating talent points.

    You will never get 2800 spellpower as a shaman, possibly as any character, in WotLK.

    As for your link, nice of you to go back and change it after you noticed you misplaced those points. The below was your original post, so sorry for quoting what you actually put up in the first place, but its a step in the right direction with the new link you have.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nanhesan
    Until you have more than 2000 spell power http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=hEh0qczIt0xRZhgMIoVzc is still the best DPS build possible. Check EJ, do the math yourself, whatever you want if you don't believe it -- but it's true.
    All of this is speculation still anyway as they aren't finished with revamping the shaman trees and also the addition of new talents. You can copy and paste links of Beta builds all day, but in the end, we wont know until 3.02 comes out. As of now, the build you have gives you the AP->Spellpower conversion which is pretty much the only good thing from it, as you lack utility and mana conservation of any other build. Im sure it wont matter on the quick boss fights, but in end game battles, they seem to stretch the boss fights out, and with the addition of the Potion sickness, we are going to have to rely on our own mana regaining abilitys ie. MP5, totems, Water Shield, and clearcasting. We might get lucky and get a SPriest in our group, but thats not always a given. Until then, speculate on!

    Shaman PvP Theory
    - "that all sounds nice but i prefer the hide behind a rock and dps method, and if they target you, ghost wolf, and if they start attacking you, bend over and prepare yourself psychologically."
    -Thunderspike

  4. #24

    Re: Elemental Build at lvl 80

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohmar

    You will never get 2800 spellpower as a shaman, possibly as any character, in WotLK.
    If that ends up being true then, since you can't seem to fathom the answer for yourself, MQ will be the highest possible DPS build. As I said, what's your point? You are making no point, just blathering nonsense to see your nonsense garbage words in print.

    All of this is speculation still anyway as they aren't finished with revamping the shaman trees and also the addition of new talents.
    Nice try to back away from the debate that you just lost. Since you started the conversation based on the beta talent build, you can't run away and hide behind some bullcrap statement like "you are just using beta talents so it doesn't matter anyway." What a total bogus backhanded argument you make. If you are right, it matters, and when someone slaps you upside your big doofus head and proves you are wrong, you run and hide. If you think that Shaman are going to see any new talents, you are a fool. Beta is basically over, Blizzard already announced 3.0 releases in 2-3 weeks. WYSIWYG is probably going to go Live, with hopefully a few bug fixes (since EO doesn't work, ToW doesn't work, hit ratings don't work, several Shaman abilities are NYI, et cetera). Anyone thinking that Shaman will get more, aside from hopefully if we are lucky some bug fixes, is smoking something illegal is most parts of the US and Europe.

  5. #25

    Re: Elemental Build at lvl 80

    Why do you think you will never get 2000 spell power (2000 from gear then the 800 from talents)? Naxx geared casters in classic had like what? 500 something? My warlock (with only a few pieces of sunwell gear and gemed heavily for haste) has like 1300 with zero raid buffs (and the number of raid buffs is only increasing). 2000 seems like a very reasonable number by the second or third 25 man raid zone (have you seen some of the gear? blue gear from basic 5 mans with 60+ spell power on them).

  6. #26

    Re: Elemental Build at lvl 80

    eleshamans generally have alot less +dmg then locks...
    tho even if its possible with t8/9 to get 2k SP, till then 43/28 >> 51(2)/20

  7. #27

    Re: Elemental Build at lvl 80

    Quote Originally Posted by Nanhesan
    To quote myself: ... might want to check that link? I see 2 in EO.

    I said 2000 unbuffed spell power. I don't know why you keep trying to turn that into 1200-2800 unbuffed spell power. Let me say it real loud, for the cheap seats: 2000 UNBUFFED. NOT 1200. NOT 2800. 2000. AS IN, YOU HAVE 2000. Here's the quote where I have already corrected your false numbers in a previous post:
    As for the last statement:

    What's your point? All this does is agree with the statements I made in a passive-aggressive manner. You need to be more like me: 1)straight up aggressive, not that passive-aggressive BS, 2)knows what they are talking about, 3)see 2.


    well in the latest build SE&F gives your LB extra 25% of your spelldamage, and the coefficient of LB was put back to the 71.4 we had before. So for a serious elemental build it's pretty much a vital talent.

  8. #28

    Re: Elemental Build at lvl 80

    The sad thing about these builds, and I'm not saying anything negative about them (because they are best choice, meaning the 43/28). The sad part is that if it is our best choice, then what's the point of a 51 pt talent.

    This is what I'm hating about blizzard, no f$%^ing clue about elemental shaman. I think about titans grip and see a tree defining skill as a 51. I think about Circle of Healing as a 41pt in BC.

    And another example of a suck a$$ ending talent is Totem of Wrath. In it's current state it didn't even make the cut into LK. That tells you something right there.

  9. #29

    Re: Elemental Build at lvl 80

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarevokcz
    eleshamans generally have alot less +dmg then locks...
    tho even if its possible with t8/9 to get 2k SP, till then 43/28 >> 51(2)/20
    Why? Baring their tier sets, they have access to everything that a warlock does but fel armor. That's an item distribution choice (and probably a good one given that level 70 warlocks will outdamage level 70 elemental shaman given identical gear), but not fault of the shamans. Its not like there are no sunwell pimped elemental shaman out there rocking 1300+ damage and a ton of haste/crit. 2k damage unbuffed hardly seems impossible midway through wotlk.

  10. #30

    Re: Elemental Build at lvl 80

    Quote Originally Posted by anyaka21
    The sad thing about these builds, and I'm not saying anything negative about them (because they are best choice, meaning the 43/28). The sad part is that if it is our best choice, then what's the point of a 51 pt talent.
    you will need to go deeper into the elemental tree for good damage. and depending on how mana intensiv the fights in lk are going to be, the 51 might be useful.

  11. #31

    Re: Elemental Build at lvl 80

    Quote Originally Posted by Shate
    you will need to go deeper into the elemental tree for good damage. and depending on how mana intensiv the fights in lk are going to be, the 51 might be useful.
    At this point, I highly doubt t-storm is going to be useful in raids. Simple reasons, 1) it's not a mana batter spell - ill get a chance to restore around 500-700 mana every 45 seconds... With shadow priests in the raid, this spell won't mean squat. 2) knockback - the last thing a raid will want during a fight while aoe is going on is to have all the mobs knockbacked 20 yards. 3) again, 45 second cooldown means it's not usable for damage.

    But yeah, very useful for pvp especially when your being double team/stunlocked in arena.

    I still say that a 51 point talent really needs to be spec defining. Circle of healing as of an example of a 41pt talent for BC. Titan's grip also comes to mind when I think about WotLK talents.

  12. #32

    Re: Elemental Build at lvl 80

    Ceko@Al'Akir-EU
    http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Al%27Akir&cn=Ceko&gn=Voivodite

    [blizzquote author=Blizzard staff]Furthermore, it's not like there is much skill involved to that rotation ("GC SEZ RETS R FACEROLLERZ"). You hit the buttons and damage happens. [/blizzquote]

  13. #33

    Re: Elemental Build at lvl 80

    Quote Originally Posted by Sard
    Why? Baring their tier sets, they have access to everything that a warlock does but fel armor. That's an item distribution choice (and probably a good one given that level 70 warlocks will outdamage level 70 elemental shaman given identical gear), but not fault of the shamans. Its not like there are no sunwell pimped elemental shaman out there rocking 1300+ damage and a ton of haste/crit. 2k damage unbuffed hardly seems impossible midway through wotlk.
    well, SWP gear is mostly same in terms of stats, but that was just because they finally scrapped hit and mp5 from our sets, but now, they are going to make hit needed by us > we will simply need to change our rings and necks for +hit, if thats not enough, than also regem few gems for hit, and we will hvae to replace lost crit, otherwise we wont last with mana, so thats another -dmg, and im abit worried we will se once again t6like gear, meaning it has everything - +hit, crit, dmg, mp5 and if room, then haste, we prolly wont have same +dmg as mages or locks, tho i might be wrong, its still beta, maybe they will make us more manaefficient with crit and mp5 wont be needed and we will have similar values

  14. #34

    Re: Elemental Build at lvl 80

    Quote Originally Posted by Shate
    you will need to go deeper into the elemental tree for good damage. and depending on how mana intensiv the fights in lk are going to be, the 51 might be useful.
    for good damage? not true, talented LB coef wont outweight raidwide buffed AP > SP conversion, however, with latest news breakdown will be alot lower, since BoM and BS wont be stackable, prolly 620-640 instead of 800 SP, meaning at 1800 SP +- will be breakdown of 43/28 > 52/19, tho for mana intensive fights, 52/19 will be better

  15. #35

    Re: Elemental Build at lvl 80

    I just think Nahesan is talking rubbish if u ask me, a shaman main weapon is the spamming of LB and now with the increased use of our fire abilities and flametongue weapon increase spell dmg probably more then what his built would give us from AP.. means tht his build has neglected the whole point of the end build of elemental increasing the dmg of our main abilities for ELEMENTAL BUILD

  16. #36

    Re: Elemental Build at lvl 80

    check EJ forums for math, AP build is more powerfull than 50+ elebuild, it was probably abit worse in tBC because we would loss LO, ToW and crit from resto, but now with MD talent MQ build is way too powerfull in comparsion to 50+ elebuilds in lower gear manner

  17. #37

    Re: Elemental Build at lvl 80

    Who gives a shit bout lower geared crap if u make a build its so tht when u get to 80 its effective in heroics and make u dps freak... i kno in my guild when i was doing Kara i was third usually in dmg meters, behind a mage n lock which is understandable but the abilities n burst dmg on mobs and a fairly good mana regeneration on bosses made me pretty good properly built elemental..
    and now with the changes on buffs... elemental oath gives +5% to crit chance to all members u gonna tell me u can live without tht? u can hav tht ur LB n CL in any case gain +5% crit from oath, 4- 5% from resto tree, and +5% from Call of thunder... so tht +14-15% extra crit chance on LB... with my current gear I would have crit chance of 36% on LB mega dmg n mana reduction imagine tht with the +25% dmg to LB, ur flametongue weapon increasing spell dmg and tht is boosted by +60% and then on top of Wrath of Air making ur shots come out faster with +5% haste and then with tht Totem of Wrath going to increase spell dmg to group and if enemy in totem area increase chance to be crit chanced... Im finding it hard to see how EJ thingy works out to be more powerful 52 point build makes us a better competition to mage n locks then ppl give credit

  18. #38

    Re: Elemental Build at lvl 80

    u are forgetting alot of things man...

    1. 43/28 include ALL raid buffing abilities - ToW, EO, if u r blind to see it, sorry, but u can check those builds, all of them include EO, ToW, LO and all other lower tier important talents
    2. 60% to flametongue is is like 45 dmg... 24% critdmg bonus on LvB is far more valuable loss than that FT crap
    3. LB coef goes up by 0,18%, not by 0,25% as it should be, which is alot worse than flat 650 SP till u hit breaking point
    4. WoA aint build specific...

    only visible loss is 4-5% crit from resto, dot for flameshock (negligible) and LvB critdmg bonus, other than that is very well covered by MD+MQ SP bonuses

  19. #39

    Re: Elemental Build at lvl 80

    With the new limits on what can and can't stack, it gives the 43/28 build less of a + to go into and 52/0/19 is looking better.

    As for whoever said that the 5% wouldn't be worth losing 650-680 spell power due to the AP conversion, is going to be OOM quite a bit more often than you think since none of the mana returning abilites aren't stacking, such as BoW and Vampiric Touch, and since we shaman know No Mana = No DPS.

    Regarding the 52/0/19 build vs. 43/28/0 build and which is better, it really depends on what types of gameplay you are looking for. If they are short, quick fights, then the 43/28/0 build would be better as you can do more dmg in a shorter amount of time. If the fights are longer, the 52/0/19 build would give you a more sustained DPS and mana pool, thus letting you do more damage than the 43/28/0 overtime since you will still be able to cast spells when the 43/28/0 build would have already gone OOM.

    *edit*

    And for you of those out there who think Thunderstorm is less than effective as an AoE spell, it will crit for around 3000 per mob with roughly 1500+ to spell damage.
    Shaman PvP Theory
    - "that all sounds nice but i prefer the hide behind a rock and dps method, and if they target you, ghost wolf, and if they start attacking you, bend over and prepare yourself psychologically."
    -Thunderspike

  20. #40

    Re: Elemental Build at lvl 80

    to the op

    currently trying this out

    http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...00000000000000

    i have no downtime
    All of Time and Space, Everything that has happened or will happened, Where do you want to start?

    "If you ever see a rogue, either rogue is overgear or the rogue has problems"

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