Raid as demonolgy! here's the build

[rikken]

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...01500135201250

The whole idea is that you get ruin, increasing crit dmg.
The main dps for a demonology lock is still shadowbolt spam.

This build should really pump out a lot of dmg.

[Varithorn1]

This spec wins.

[Morgan77]

What demon would you be useing?

[rikken]

You would be using your fel guard.

[Twistedsight]

What demon would you be useing?

the idea is to go with a felguard but i think your missing some of the pure awesomeness at the top of the demo tree to get to ruin, Warlock demo spec is basically like a Beast Master Hunter, YOU aren't the Focus, the DEMON is the focus, if he's not as big and beefy as possible your losing out on a lot. something close to this will probably be the Demo Raiding spec.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...00503135231350

admittedly though it needs a little fine tuning depending on gear and scaling but the point is to get all the goodies at the top of the demo tree while getting just enough in destro to spam shadowbolts as efficiently as possible

[Vicieus]

the idea is to go with a felguard but i think your missing some of the pure awesomeness at the top of the demo tree to get to ruin, Warlock demo spec is basically like a Beast Master Hunter, YOU aren't the Focus, the DEMON is the focus, if he's not as big and beefy as possible your losing out on a lot. something close to this will probably be the Demo Raiding spec.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...00503135231350

admittedly though it needs a little fine tuning depending on gear and scaling but the point is to get all the goodies at the top of the demo tree while getting just enough in destro to spam shadowbolts as efficiently as possible

The only problem with that build is that it doesnt have ruin. Which is a huge bonus to shadowbolt damage. Id be reluctant to go demonology for raiding, I mean, the biggest problem with BM raiding is the their pet dies and they lose a ton of DPS. A lot of healers completly neglect pets, plus, health funnel is garbage compared to mend pet.

Fel Synergy should take care of this, but ill most likely go sacc destruction.

Getting back to the original post. You could use any pet depending on the situation. Succubus is supposed to be getting a health and armor buff, so that might be the best pet to have out for pure DPS. If its a fight where you need to survive magic attacks felhunter would be amazing.

The felguard gives you 5% more damage and 5% less damage taken. The only problem with that is that you arent usually hit by anything from bosses besides spells.

[greenmasheen]

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...01500135201250

The whole idea is that you get ruin, increasing crit dmg.
The main dps for a demonology lock is still shadowbolt spam.

This build should really pump out a lot of dmg.

improved demonic tactics possibly if you will be spamming shadowbolts...?

over demonic empathy

[thelorddave]

Overall the spec is excellent, but for my personal taste, I would tweak a couple things

1. Put 2 points in Demonic Resilience rather than Demonic Empathy - continuous 10% damage reduction for demon is likely better than the occasional proc.
2. Take 1 point out of Improved Shadow Bolt and put it in Shadowburn - ISB now only buffs self, so will get more DPS out of Shadowburn.

It is great to see this improvement for Demonologists. Not sure if I want them to fix Metamorphosis or not - would make for a tough decision!

[Vicieus]

Overall the spec is excellent, but for my personal taste, I would tweak a couple things

1. Put 2 points in Demonic Resilience rather than Demonic Empathy - continuous 10% damage reduction for demon is likely better than the occasional proc.
2. Take 1 point out of Improved Shadow Bolt and put it in Shadowburn - ISB now only buffs self, so will get more DPS out of Shadowburn.

It is great to see this improvement for Demonologists. Not sure if I want them to fix Metamorphosis or not - would make for a tough decision!

Id have to disagree. With fel synergy you'll be healing your pet enough to keep it alive (like hunter 2 piece T5). I mean, you'll still have to worry about your pet dying to raid bosses, which, is why you have to learn to be good at pulling your pet back to you during AOEs and such.

With Demonic Empathy you get the warlock T6 set bonus!!! That alone is a TON of damage done output.

[thelorddave]

With Demonic Empathy you get the warlock T6 set bonus!!! That alone is a TON of damage done output.

Techinically, with 2 points in Demonic Empathy, you get a partial T6 set bonus (4% not 6%) for 15 seconds when your pet crits that only affects your next 3 spells.

Like I said, kind of a personal preference - I prefer guaranteed damage reduction over possible DPS increase.
If it was like the T6 bonus (6% damage increase to SB & Incenerate ALL THE TIME) I would definitely take it.

Hopefully, with Demonic Resilience + Fel Synergy healing + New Felguard Avoidance (80% AoE Reduction) + Felguard 10% health increase you won't have to pull your Felguard off a boss EVER! Consider the amount of DPS lost if Felguard stops attacking long enough to lose a fully stacked Demonic Frenzy buff!

[rikken]

The fel guard will crit a lot, simply because its melee, and you will already have a high crit rating. demonic empathy won't be up all the time, but it will be up a lot. The 4% will not make a HUGE difference, but any extra damage is good. The amount of healing that the fel guard will receive is a lot (we usually have a spriest in the lock's group and the VE heals and the 15% heals from the lock should be more than enough.)

I know this is the spec i'll use =p
just looks so dam fun

[thelorddave]

Have to admit this post got me thinking and I now plan to split the difference between Demonic Resilience and Demonic Empathy - the damage increase, even if occurs rarely, is too good to completely ignore (15 secs gives plenty of time for a Soul Fire and 2 SB). I do maintain that Shadowburn is worth the sacrifice of 1 point in ISB - the 15 sec cooldown, coupled with Ruin, will give a nice DPS boost to help finish off a boss. My raiding spec will likely be as follows..

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...01501135201150

[MortuariusBC]

Have to admit this post got me thinking and I now plan to split the difference between Demonic Resilience and Demonic Empathy - the damage increase, even if occurs rarely, is too good to completely ignore (15 secs gives plenty of time for a Soul Fire and 2 SB). I do maintain that Shadowburn is worth the sacrifice of 1 point in ISB - the 15 sec cooldown, coupled with Ruin, will give a nice DPS boost to help finish off a boss. My raiding spec will likely be as follows..

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...01501135201150

in a raid i dont think the 5/10/15% damage reduction will be worth the points, with the new avoidance and the class synergies being raid wide (impr leader of the pack heal, VE, etc) + fel synergy (think about 15% of all your dots and your nukes).

as for the shadowburn... meh im still not convinced, the shard, the cooldown, the mana cost by the time you figure in the GCD is it really worth it? casting another sbolt could give you another ISB proc and is only 1 sec more than Sburn

[Rockeroad]

heres what i think will be the demo raid build: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...01500135231351 . This has demon form, molten core for switching from shadow to fire, instant corruption, more crit for your demon, and more damage from demonic empathy. I swear that will be the build (at least the one i will use). Shadowburn is not worth it and i think that meta will be a good burst damage since you can use "demonic leap"(heroic leap the demon way) to get to the boss and start meleeing and casting sbolts and such. Also you can use demonic sac right before you use it for more damage. For me, this is the build and i hope you guys spread it =D. Also i got imp demon tactics so my felguard will crit more, some ppl think its not worth it but your demons deserves to crit more for more demonic pact and empathy.

[gonewild]

a few things:

1. demonic emphathy procs on only spell and ability, which rules out felguard's melee hit. felguard can cleave and intercept but obviously cleave will be the only ability, which has 6 sec cool down. succubus can have 6 sec lash of pain if talented in the destruction tree. while personally i'll spec into it instead of demonic resilience for dps, i don't think we should expect the dmg buff to be up very often, ~25% is realistic. succubus might provide longer uptime because lash of pain might be considered as a spell(never bother to confirm) and thus gain extra benefit from mage's crit debuff.

2. demo lock never go fire

3. shadow burn as a filler talent yes, shadow burn in dps cycle no

4. ruin is a must

5. imp shadow bolt change is a buff for lock with decent crit rating.

[Semiraghe]

+ fel synergy (think about 15% of all your dots and your nukes).

As a reminder, fel synergy only heals your demon for 15% of the dmg you take, not the dmg you do (unless it was changed again.) Since the demon will always be closer to the mob than you (exepction imp, which demo wouldn't use) the demon will most likely be taking more dmg than you. Thus the healing affect of Fel Synergy is actually not that useful in PvE imo, though the 10% bonuses is worth it.

[thelorddave]

As a reminder, fel synergy only heals your demon for 15% of the dmg you take, not the dmg you do (unless it was changed again.) Since the demon will always be closer to the mob than you (exepction imp, which demo wouldn't use) the demon will most likely be taking more dmg than you. Thus the healing affect of Fel Synergy is actually not that useful in PvE imo, though the 10% bonuses is worth it.

The healing is for damage you do - tooltip in talent calculator is a typo (granted a big one) but everyone playing beta says your demon is healed for 15% of the damage you do and videos of it in action do exist. It is talented verstion of T5 set bonus and a MUST have for all demonologists.

3. shadow burn as a filler talent yes, shadow burn in dps cycle no

Didn't mean to imply use of Shadowburn in DPS rotation - just that is better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. Sacrificing 3% spell damage on ISB procs is worth it (to me) for an instant cast direct damage spell that can crit, especially with Ruin involved.

[thelorddave]

heres what i think will be the demo raid build: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...01500135231351 . This has demon form, molten core for switching from shadow to fire, instant corruption, more crit for your demon, and more damage from demonic empathy. I swear that will be the build (at least the one i will use). Shadowburn is not worth it and i think that meta will be a good burst damage since you can use "demonic leap"(heroic leap the demon way) to get to the boss and start meleeing and casting sbolts and such. Also you can use demonic sac right before you use it for more damage. For me, this is the build and i hope you guys spread it =D. Also i got imp demon tactics so my felguard will crit more, some ppl think its not worth it but your demons deserves to crit more for more demonic pact and empathy.

Metamorphosis is broken - nothing more than a gimmick talent (in my opinion) which forces you to give up Ruin and has no raid utility. Molten Core vastly inferior to ISB. While I love instant Corruption (will likely level to 80 as Demon/Aff - Felguard + Siphon Life FTW!), it also forces you to give up Ruin, which is FAR superior.

[Rockeroad]

Metamorphosis is broken - nothing more than a gimmick talent (in my opinion) which forces you to give up Ruin and has no raid utility. Molten Core vastly inferior to ISB. While I love instant Corruption (will likely level to 80 as Demon/Aff - Felguard + Siphon Life FTW!), it also forces you to give up Ruin, which is FAR superior.

Am i the only one who doesnt wanna make demonology another ds/snf but instead its demonic pact/ruin? I mean seriously, i dont wanna give up the last talent, they put it in their for a reason and we should use it. Plus blizz even said they wanted molten core to lean towards demo locks so we can switch from fire to shadow. Also shadowbolt is not what were speccing for when in demonology. Its to improve our pets and our survivability. Most likely demonology is going to be a utility build and not a pure dps build. Were relying on demons for this, and for those of you who want ruin then just spec Destro. Theres a reason why its in destro because its for that.

I really think that demon form is going to be good. Ive seen vids on it and it does very nice damage. And sorry if that sounds a bit mean but still, i wanna see demonology good all the way down to Demon Form.

[MortuariusBC]

Am i the only one who doesnt wanna make demonology another ds/snf but instead its demonic pact/ruin? I mean seriously, i dont wanna give up the last talent, they put it in their for a reason and we should use it. Plus blizz even said they wanted molten core to lean towards demo locks so we can switch from fire to shadow. Also shadowbolt is not what were speccing for when in demonology. Its to improve our pets and our survivability. Most likely demonology is going to be a utility build and not a pure dps build. Were relying on demons for this, and for those of you who want ruin then just spec Destro. Theres a reason why its in destro because its for that.

I really think that demon form is going to be good. Ive seen vids on it and it does very nice damage. And sorry if that sounds a bit mean but still, i wanna see demonology good all the way down to Demon Form.

its a long cooldown
it removes your pet
it limits the spells you can cast to only the metamorph spells

shadowbolt volley is weaker than your normal shadowbolt so vs a boss its crap
immolate aura is nice for aoeing but again for a boss you have better options in caster form

it really has limited use in pve raids