Warlock DoT's and Crit

[Telitzp]

.. sorta

Koraa says,
"There will be a new talent in Affliction in an upcoming build.

Keywords: "DoT" and "Crit" (Well, sorta)"

- Locks congratulations. Now, lets just try to make sure that they do the same thing for SW:P and VT, otherwise it will you know bring out the bitch in bitching. If they don't, it's just another slap in the face to Shadow Priests. At least they are finally thinking about fixing Mind Flay to crit / scale.

- I am going to be a little honest, I think Shadow Priests deserve it more than Afflication locks. We have 2 dots, you have 6 or something (which would be silly for all 6 to crit). I think they should just make all DoT's have the ability to crit and not favor any class.

Edit:
Source: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...=4&sid=2000#63

[Raptorg]

Immolate - no affliction talent affects it.
Siphon Life - weak DoT, loses 50% of scaling due to being a leech.
Corruption - powerful DoT with lowered coefficient.
UA - powerful DoT, but weaker then corruption.

VS

SW:Pain - very powerful DoT, scales extremely well.
Vampiric Touch - powerful DoT, causes replenishment, scales well.

That's 4 DoTs for Locks, of which 2 are very weak, and 2 others weaker then both your DoTs.

In exceptional situations, we get a 5th, but it's very unlikely we will, since Curse of Weakness, Curse of Recklessness and Curse of Elements have priority.

Now, another difference, you have 3 nukes, we have 2.

Shadowbolt - low power nuke that scales very well, gains a lot from spelldamage, evening out the low base damage -- crits for no extra damage

Haunt: average damage, low cast, doesn't scale too well, boosts damage of our DoTs -- crits for no extra damage

VS

Mind Flay(being changed to a nuke, currently a channeled DoT) - destined to be powerful -- speculated to crit for 60% more damage
Mind Blast - average damage, short cast nuke, doesn't scale too well, but causes a fair amount of damage on a low CD/Cast time, gains a lot from +dmg talents/effects -- crits for 60% more damage
SWeath - low to average damage, instant cast, doesn't scale too well either, but causes fair amount of damage at the cost of health, medium cooldown -- crits for 60% more damage



See, 2 different classes, with the changes, your DoT damage will be slightly lower then that of an affliction lock(not considering the changes that will happen to our DoTs since they're unknown for now).

Your direct damage, however, will be slightly higher, due to gaining more damage when you crit with your nukes.



overall:
Affliction locks will cause more DoT damage, but less direct damage.
Shadowpriests will cause less DoT damage, but more direct damage.


In the end, it evens out.

[Varithorn1]

Make siphon life trainable, and give a ruin spell for affliction in its spot, then affliction will be viable.

[nazrakin]

The "well sorta" seems to indicate that DOTs won't crit, but they'll benefit in some way from Crit Rating.

[Telitzp]

Immolate - no affliction talent affects it.
Siphon Life - weak DoT, loses 50% of scaling due to being a leech.
Corruption - powerful DoT with lowered coefficient.
UA - powerful DoT, but weaker then corruption.

VS

SW:Pain - very powerful DoT, scales extremely well.
Vampiric Touch - powerful DoT, causes replenishment, scales well.

That's 4 DoTs for Locks, of which 2 are very weak, and 2 others weaker then both your DoTs.

In exceptional situations, we get a 5th, but it's very unlikely we will, since Curse of Weakness, Curse of Recklessness and Curse of Elements have priority.

Now, another difference, you have 3 nukes, we have 2.

Shadowbolt - low power nuke that scales very well, gains a lot from spelldamage, evening out the low base damage -- crits for no extra damage

Haunt: average damage, low cast, doesn't scale too well, boosts damage of our DoTs -- crits for no extra damage

VS

Mind Flay(being changed to a nuke, currently a channeled DoT) - destined to be powerful -- speculated to crit for 60% more damage
Mind Blast - average damage, short cast nuke, doesn't scale too well, but causes a fair amount of damage on a low CD/Cast time, gains a lot from +dmg talents/effects -- crits for 60% more damage
SWeath - low to average damage, instant cast, doesn't scale too well either, but causes fair amount of damage at the cost of health, medium cooldown -- crits for 60% more damage



See, 2 different classes, with the changes, your DoT damage will be slightly lower then that of an affliction lock(not considering the changes that will happen to our DoTs since they're unknown for now).

Your direct damage, however, will be slightly higher, due to gaining more damage when you crit with your nukes.



overall:
Affliction locks will cause more DoT damage, but less direct damage.
Shadowpriests will cause less DoT damage, but more direct damage.


In the end, it evens out.

Your 4 dots do more damage than my 2 dots.
You have instant shadow bolt.
You scale better with better gear. We do not scale (as of yet)
Mind flay is still in the works.

EVEN YOUR OWN LOCK BETA PEOPLE SAY WE NEED HELP. Thanks and go away.

[Raptorg]

Your 4 dots do more damage than my 2 dots.
You have instant shadow bolt.
You scale better with better gear. We do not scale (as of yet)
Mind flay is still in the works.

EVEN YOUR OWN LOCK BETA PEOPLE SAY WE NEED HELP. Thanks and go away.

1) obviously, we're the primary DoT class, what'd you expect?
2)instant shadowbolt? where? you mean that 4% chance every 3 seconds? wow.. that's a LOT -- you know, it's just RNG
3) hardly, our shadowbolts don't exactly hit hard, nor do our DoTs scale well.. from on t5 we become pretty much useless, just about the same as you
my shadowbolts hit for a mere 2.3k-3k(3k non crit is VERY rare) in a raids while my DoTs tick for:
UA+Corr - about 550
SL - about 200
Immolate - about 250
which equals about 1.6k every 3 seconds

in equal gear, both of your DoTs should be able to tick for, about 650-700
which is about 1.3k-1.4k every 3 seconds
4) your point? i mentioned that.. and it's looking very nice with a potential 87% coefficient and 60% increased crit damage - definitely more powerful then my shadowbolt


you're here bitching about "equal treatment"

i explained to you how stuff are likely to become in WotLK, you'd understand that if you thought for a change


and before you continue, it's VERY unlikely Immolate will benefit from this change, if it's even a change to DoTs to start with, it might be just drain soul and drain life(as speculated)

which means 3 - potentially 4 of our DoTs get a crit

of which 2 are powerful, and 2 low to average in damage

[Fushu]

I hope you're talking about aff spec if your shadowbolts are only hitting for 3k. lol.

Either way, if you're aff spec on live and trying to be competitive in dps, please reroll.

[daveyman]

...ofcourse he's talking about affliction spec, what do you think this thread is about?

If it were up to you every class would play the cookie cutter spec and nothing else huh?

[Raptorg]

I hope you're talking about aff spec if your shadowbolts are only hitting for 3k. lol.

Either way, if you're aff spec on live and trying to be competitive in dps, please reroll.

because me having siphon life and UA is normal when i'm destruction? think please

ofcourse i'm affliction..
and i'm there to provide my utility, which my mages and destruction locks appreciate very much

somebody's gotta do it, and i'm the person who decided to take that burden..
funny enough, i still compete with the top dps'ers which are

a BM hunter
a Combat rogue
an elemental shaman
and a shadow destruction warlock

and in many cases, i still top that meter, but usually i don't care about it, i just want to be there for my utility, and if i can top that meter, sure.. but it's not my intention
and in many more cases, i cannot compete, simply because of the sheer damage these classes can put out

regardless of all that, i'm proud to be an affliction lock, and i honestly can't imagine ever speccing destruction again
making the others look stupid by being outdps'd by an affliction lock is just too much fun

[Fushu]

...ofcourse he's talking about affliction spec, what do you think this thread is about?

If it were up to you every class would play the cookie cutter spec and nothing else huh?

Well no, but I'll play whatever spec works best on live at the time. Why on earth would anyone gimp themselves? I'll be impressed when Blizz balances all specs of all classes. If that happens in wotlk then awesome!

[Fushu]

making the others look stupid by being outdps'd by an affliction lock is just too much fun

Sure, I guess.

[Raptorg]

Well no, but I'll play whatever spec works best on live at the time. Why on earth would anyone gimp themselves? I'll be impressed when Blizz balances all specs of all classes. If that happens in wotlk then awesome!

why on earth would anyone play something they don't consider to be fun or interesting?

surely affliction is a lot more fun then destruction, actually having to watch and manage your DoTs seems a lot more interesting and fun then spamming the same spell every 2.5seconds for 4-5 hours, right?

luckily, some guilds go by that philosophy - if you're in a min-maxing guilds, then i feel very sorry for you, but such guilds are just retarded


plenty of times i have signed up on guilds who needed warlocks, guilds with very high progression - BT, Sunwell

i got accepted, but.. i had to spec destruction - if speccing destruction is the only way to get in, i'd rather stay in my little guild full of nublets and to my thing and feel accepted and wanted then going into a guild full of min-maxers playing a spec i do not like and not feeling accepted or wanted


before you go "gear", sorry, that's not why i raid, i raid for fun - besides.. PvE gear has no point then raiding, i can't do shit in PvP with you

new encounters? oh i'm definitely going to make it someday with my little guild of nublets

this is not a job, buddy - it's a game

[Fushu]

Well, this is what WotLK is hopefully alleviating. The fact is, on live at the moment if you want to play an underpowered spec, then you wont see endgame material. The fact that you're QQing about having to respec to raid is laughable. At least you have a dps spec that can see you on top of end game dps charts. Priests have 1 dps spec and it is broken in pvp and nigh impossible to be competitive in pve. Hell you have a pvp spec and several team set ups that will see you > 2200 if you wanted. Spriests don't have this at all. Apples and oranges, dont even compare them.

Less QQ, you wanna raid and be awesome, you have a spec to do so. If you wanna stay in yer "guild of full of nublets" and have the freedom to put points where ever you want, then do so.

[Varithorn1]

You missed the point. The problem was that affliction becomes useless in PvP once t5 content begins. And this will no doubt continue. This means warlocks are cornered in to 1 raiding spec. As a priest, qq moar plox, I bet that will make every one of your problems better.

[Worshaka]

Perhaps this thread should have been posted in the Warlock area? Just putting it out there.

[Raptorg]

Well, this is what WotLK is hopefully alleviating. The fact is, on live at the moment if you want to play an underpowered spec, then you wont see endgame material. The fact that you're QQing about having to respec to raid is laughable. At least you have a dps spec that can see you on top of end game dps charts. Priests have 1 dps spec and it is broken in pvp and nigh impossible to be competitive in pve. Hell you have a pvp spec and several team set ups that will see you > 2200 if you wanted. Spriests don't have this at all. Apples and oranges, dont even compare them.

Less QQ, you wanna raid and be awesome, you have a spec to do so. If you wanna stay in yer "guild of full of nublets" and have the freedom to put points where ever you want, then do so.

ah, so topping those charts is everything?

maybe my eyes have been deceiving me, but surely.. shadowpriests are wanted in endgame PvE

whereas affliction locks eventually get kicked out because that 3% damage they bring gets outscaled eventually?


you are able to raid, we.. only just

one thing has always been bothering me, you shadowpriests continuously overdramatise everything

you're not as sucky as you say, you're not as useless as you keep saying
nor are you completely and utterly useless in PvP(in which you actually DO have a top spec, it's called discipline)

less wrist cutting, more pew pew'ing


and honestly, i do prefer to be in a guild with people i like, and who like me back
people with who i can have a laugh
people with who i can make fun during a raid without constant tension
people who will laugh when we wipe
people to who it doesn't matter if we had a successful raid or not
people who take me as a person, not a tool


you may pity me for that, but to me, that's a lot more important then having 600 more damage on my shadowbolt

[Chastise]

Raptorg - Affliction DPS at endgame is like me saying i want to DPS as Holy - sure its fun to throw out tons of Holy Nova - i mean, come on why should i be not allowed into Hyjal and BT and Sunwell just cuz i wanna do Holy Nova - maybe even Holy Fire spam cuz i love the way it looks..........getting the picture??

Sure managing dots is fun....if you think its fun to watch time go by...maybe evening challenging for someone of your intelligence level...

Basically - Shadow Priests were only wanted endgame for group healing passively and returning mana to groups...if you argue this point you have never been in Sunwell where 2 Spriests are often recommended in certain groups just to help with heals and where healers are mana starved - Shadow priests dps however scaled quite poorly and were rarely top 5 in dps - Now that their Raid utility is down - or at least shared with some pure DPS classes - IE hunter/mage - their DPS should rise to the Hunter/mage level - and scale well just like Hunter/Mage - Well...more hunter =P


and about your guild full of nublets - they must be if an Affliction lock is near the top in dps - take your semi retarded group on a field trip to kara on the short bus and show them how leet your affliction skills are - meanwhile...us big kids will continue to talk about legitimate beta and priest issues - this being the priest forum and all....


Im gonna go respec holy and try to dps Illidan - wish me luck...



ohhh and one other thing....stop being a hypocrite - We arent allowed to tell you to respec - yet you tell us

nor are you completely and utterly useless in PvP(in which you actually DO have a top spec, it's called discipline)

l2play




Edit - PS

and honestly, i do prefer to be in a guild with people i like, and who like me back
people with who i can have a laugh
people with who i can make fun during a raid without constant tension
people who will laugh when we wipe
people to who it doesn't matter if we had a successful raid or not
people who take me as a person, not a tool

do you like long walks on the beach as well?? - cuz i hear Stranglethorn has wonderful sunsets - go giggle and dot stuff and watch the sunsets while you QQ about your dots -

[Maenetus]

The "well sorta" seems to indicate that DOTs won't crit, but they'll benefit in some way from Crit Rating.

QFT

[Mayhem]

don´t know much about priests, but i´m as an warlock happen to be with an spriest in 2vs2 and our rating keeps rising and rising, most of the time we don´t even have problems killing drood/warr kombos

well sometimes the drood happens to be an soab kiting us around for 6 minutes... but everyone knows that they´re a bit OP

[Raptorg]

Raptorg - Affliction DPS at endgame is like me saying i want to DPS as Holy - sure its fun to throw out tons of Holy Nova - i mean, come on why should i be not allowed into Hyjal and BT and Sunwell just cuz i wanna do Holy Nova - maybe even Holy Fire spam cuz i love the way it looks..........getting the picture??

Sure managing dots is fun....if you think its fun to watch time go by...maybe evening challenging for someone of your intelligence level...

Basically - Shadow Priests were only wanted endgame for group healing passively and returning mana to groups...if you argue this point you have never been in Sunwell where 2 Spriests are often recommended in certain groups just to help with heals and where healers are mana starved - Shadow priests dps however scaled quite poorly and were rarely top 5 in dps - Now that their Raid utility is down - or at least shared with some pure DPS classes - IE hunter/mage - their DPS should rise to the Hunter/mage level - and scale well just like Hunter/Mage - Well...more hunter =P


and about your guild full of nublets - they must be if an Affliction lock is near the top in dps - take your semi retarded group on a field trip to kara on the short bus and show them how leet your affliction skills are - meanwhile...us big kids will continue to talk about legitimate beta and priest issues - this being the priest forum and all....


Im gonna go respec holy and try to dps Illidan - wish me luck...



ohhh and one other thing....stop being a hypocrite - We arent allowed to tell you to respec - yet you tell us
l2play




Edit - PS
do you like long walks on the beach as well?? - cuz i hear Stranglethorn has wonderful sunsets - go giggle and dot stuff and watch the sunsets while you QQ about your dots -

it's funny you mention holy dps..

it's actually good damage with the proper damage and gear..
it just lacks any mana efficiency, affliction just lacks damage

i wish i could say i respect your opinion, sadly i don't..
your opinion is not only stupid, it's also childish

if topping those meters is all that counts for you, then you're the one who needs to "l2p"

not me

i repeat - it's a game, not a job


oh, and i'm not the one QQ'ing, you are..
or, are you going to tell me this topic wasn't born from you shadowpriests thinking affliction locks were getting something you won't? - competative dps

the class issues are addressed differently, stop assuming shadowpriests and affliction locks should be the same, dps the same way and have the same mechanics

2 different classes, shadowpriests become less of a DoT spec, affliction becomes more of a DoT spec


my class is perfect for me.. i don't mind being crap dps
your standards and reasons for raiding are flawed, not mine