Why is the Misery change a Nerf?

[Lostprophet]

Misery gives 5% Spelldmg to everyone in a Raid, so its doesnt make us do less dmg compared to the other classes.

If u look @ scorch, then u can say " THIS is a huge Nerf" because it only nerfs the dmg of a Firemage(most Raidmages so) and Fire Destro locks(which are in bc very rarely)

Its only a Nerf for PvP alttough most Priest plays Disc.

I know that we'll lose an very important part of our actual Support for the Raid but so do others. And some gain alot of Supp. Hi@ Moonkins:/


So why is everyone telling that the misery change is a nerf for us. (Raid)

[keubad]

In light of the recent changes that suggest SP personal damage is going up, the misery change may not be so much of a nerf. Before, it meant we lost utility and given other classes provided the same utility with better personal damage, there was no reason to bring a shadow priest.

[Lostprophet]

Can we get a translator in here please? I don't speak gibberish.

Im sorry that English isnt my First Language.....


Imo, Vapiric Touch is the main utility we have. If we dont have Misery, it doesnt change anything.

[Worshaka]

The misery change may not be a massive issue considering the philosophy and changes made relating to raid buffs/debuffs. However when you compare what misery was (5% spell damage) to what it is now (3% spell hit) it is a straightforward nerf. So far there has always been gear available that allowed players to become hit capped and thus the 3% raid spell hit is going to be redundant. I admit that it may be useful early on but by true end game raiding it's not gonna mean squat.

In addition I have been told that the spell caster spell hit cap is going to be aligned with the melee hit cap, ie. 9%, if that change goes ahead it will be even more useless.

[psicorp]

gee i dunno, a lot of min max really hard core guilds would actually not go hit cap, they would drop 3%under, then gear for crit or spell damage if there raid spot (which was always the same) had an elemantal shammy in the group

[Doomwalker]

1. change from 5% damage to 3% hit = 5% nerf on your damage if you are hitcapped.
2. its not stackable, so if you have a moonkin in your raid = totaly useless for both you and the raid + moonkins have +damage buff so...why take a Spriest at all if you got a Moonkin in the raid?
3. If you take a look at all the gears that are posted so far from WotlK, they have alot of hitrating. Just take a look at the new PvP rings that all can get pretty easy. I say that we will get hitcapped pretty fast when we start to get epic gears....and Misery will be a leveling/beginner talent, so it will be totaly useless some months in to WotlK for the most of the raiding Spriests.

+5% damage is allways better than 3% hit in the long run when we start to get better gear. +5 damage will never be useless, there is no cap on +damage.

Yes, its a nerf allright.

[Bigslick]

Bear in mind that application of some raid-wide debuffs is done passively in some cases (Misery) where it is imparted by spells that are a standard part of rotation, and actively by others (Improved Faerie Fire) requiring them to spend a GCD they would otherwise use generating more DPS. From that perspective, it is an inherent buff brought by spriests doing their job, but does require them to invest the points into the talent.

Aside from that, it is a nerf to our damage that is counterbalanced by the tier 1 talent in the Discipline tree (Twin Spirits?), so we lose no effective damage there. Unfortunately, we gain nothing viable in the long term.

On a related note (not to derail topic), shifting this 5% damage over to the discipline tree makes a lolsmite build offer 5% more damage straight off, and viable as a hybrid that can bring solid dps, passable healing, and apply Pain Suppression and/or Grace in fights which require it... Curious to see where that goes.

[Sarevokcz]

gee i dunno, a lot of min max really hard core guilds would actually not go hit cap, they would drop 3%under, then gear for crit or spell damage if there raid spot (which was always the same) had an elemantal shammy in the group

for really minmaxing guilds, eleshammy wasnt worth the spot with subpar dps, not even for 3% hit and crit, with raidwide, it could be different, but i dont think so, SP need some love still

[frott]

1. Imp VE is situational.

2. Misery goes to Boomkins/Aff Locks.

3. Hit is handleable by Boomkins.

4. Both ret paladins and Surv hunters do ridiculously more dps than shadow currently, offer same mana regen buff.

5. It depends on where we are at level 80 in regards to hit. It is a pretty big buff in PVP if we are not at hit cap with talents as we won't have to gem for it.


PVE, without a boomkin to provide hit, it is only a buff at certain levels of hit relative to your average damage.

Obviously... if your average damage is 1,000

if you have 90% hit, and 0% +dmg, over 100 attacks you do 1000x90 or 90k damage.
if you have 87% hit, and 5% +dmg, over 100 attacks you do 1050x87 or 91,350 damage.

Old misery is 1.5% better if you have 87% hit and 1,000 damage avg.


if you have 20% hit, and 0% +dmg, over 100 attacks you do 1000x20 or 20k damage
if you have 17% hit, and 5% +dmg, over 100 attacks you do 1050x17 or 17,850 damage.

New misery is better 10.75% better if you have 17% hit and 1,000 dmg avg.

sweet spot would be

(HIT)=(1.05)(HIT-3)
HIT = 1.05HIT - 3.15
3.15 = .05HIT

63 hit

proof:

63 hit and 0%+ dmg, over 100 attacks 1000x63 = 63k dmg
60 hit and 5%+dmg, over 100 attacks 1050x60 = 63k dmg

62 hit and 0%+dmg, over 100 attacks 1000x62 = 62k
59 hit and 5%+dmg, over 100 attacks 1050x59 = 61,950k


So obviously it is situationally a nerf / buff depending on what your average attack is considering all of your stats and how high your hit / +dmg is.

it is a nerf to dps unless you're under 63 hit. I can't see normal hit levels topping out at 2/3s, so yep.... nerf.

[dsmet]

umm...WUT???!!!???

[emeria]

Priests should be healing, not doing damage!
;D

[zbik]

sweet spot would be
(HIT)=(1.05)(HIT-3)
HIT = 1.05HIT - 3.15
3.15 = .05HIT

63 hit

is that 63 spell hit rating ,or hitting with your spells 63% of the time?
normal miss rate is 5% ,vs boss (level+3) is 16%
meaning you hit with spells on bosses 84% of time? you couldnt really get to 63% in a raid so its always a nerf for everyone?

1000dmg x.87(w/ +3 hit) is 870dmg
1050dmg x.84(w/ no +hit,no talents affecting hit,no raid buffs affecting hit) is 882dmg?

or am i confusing something?

[thethain]

The misery has happily been buffed to be "Empowered random Shadow Spells" so it more obviously depicts the direction of the shadow priest.

Less Required Utility, more Pew Pew.

That being said it is still a little sad, I always felt like synergistic class combos was something really neat.

A Shadow priest and Shadowbolt warlock were best friends.
A Retribution paladin and Smite Priest (if you laugh you obviously have never seen it done correctly)
A Enhancement Shaman and Doomkin Druid
And the sadly never realized Frost DK and Frost Mage.

It always seemed to me like a really interesting mechanic that would give your 5 mans a feeling. Even tho in raid environments it just meant pack in a few shadow priests and warlocks since theirs was the best.