instant cast... hammer time?

[Adamson]

Last I checked, deadly throw used up combo points, arcane shot has CD and used hunter's tiny mana pool and execute used up all current rage.

Yeah, your point is moot.

ours has a cooldown, uses a ton of mana.

>:|

[Moar Pew Pew]

Hunter's tiny mana pool.

Lawl. I have no idea what you were proving/disproving, but this made me lawl.

[Adamonious]

Last I checked, deadly throw used up combo points, arcane shot has CD and used hunter's tiny mana pool and execute used up all current rage.

Yeah, your point is moot.

You realise that HoW has a 6 sec cooldown and still costs a shit ton of mana for a Ret paly right??

I mean its not like we are just gonna be chasing you around spamming instant HoW on every global cooldown....

[Moar Pew Pew]

I mean its not like we are just gonna be chasing you around spamming instant HoW on every global cooldown....

I think this would bring me greater joy than anything else possible on the internet lol.

[cokane]

ours has a cooldown, uses a ton of mana.

>:|

Oh shit, it does?

I checked wowwiki before I posted and it didn't mention a cooldown.

So yeah, I got owned.

[Adamson]

Oh shit, it does?

I checked wowwiki before I posted and it didn't mention a cooldown.

So yeah, I got owned.

Well it's wrong. I'm in the beta and the cooldown is still 6 seconds.

[Arr0w]

Last I checked, deadly throw used up combo points, arcane shot has CD and used hunter's tiny mana pool and execute used up all current rage.

Yeah, your point is moot.

errrmm...i think they made it instant when they gave warrs the new weapon throw ability to make it maybe on par..u don't see ppl complaining abt that

[Garrum]

Besides, wether you feel Ret pallies have it ruff or not all of you have to agree having Instant hammer is def a positive move for our class. I def don't think having HoW on the run is OP concidering its our only ranged spell available, and that was the heart of the argument. Lets steer this thread back on coarse!!

It WOULD have been a buff, except that we don't have the mana to use it. We dont have the mana to go through our damage rotation 3 times, much less use hammer of wrath once they get low. Nothing is a buff unless the final resulting package is able to do well in high end arena without being carried by 2 more...'balanced' classes, being played by 2 super good players. That, or wallowing around on a bad battlegroup and STILL needing to be partially carried.

And this is coming from someone that got 1850 during S3 (look up Kierlak on Aegwynn) on a real team, with all 3 of us going for the weapons (Finnes, nelf druid and Bryngyt, dwarf warrior), no paying a 2000+ team to carry me to a weapon. I did this on US Vengeance, one the hardest battlegroups in existance, so I know how hard it is on a battlegroup that isn't a joke. Except for the 3 games we had against a point buying team that was literally being played by a single player, every game was a vicious fight, and hard won. There are no 'gimme' teams for any team with a paladin player on it. Everyone has a counter to paladins of every spec, you have it used against you in every single game you play if your opponents don't suck. You can cleanse your finger to nubs, BoP with perfect timing to save your teammate AND waste the enemies rage/energy/mana, BoF the best target available every time, and try to stun/repent a clinch heal everytime you see it, but in a lot of cases it simply does not matter. You just get your class weaknesses abused and your team loses because of you either being dead or being helpless with no mana, or because you couldn't do anything because you were kited the entire game with no way to catch up and BoF disappearing instantly.

Thumos, while I agree with you on the fact that the Paladin needs attention I also believe that next to abiding by the Forum Guidelines you should also pay some of the senior members here a bit more respect.
Cursing and swearing just to make a point does not help or strenghten the case you are making.

Fuck these anti-paladin pieces of shit. I don't care if they invented dirt and co-signed the lease for the moon, they are just trolling the paladins posting here. THEY are the ones not being constructive.

But then again Wrath of the Lich King bring us that needed attention, so why 95% of you people are complaining is beond me.

Wait till after 3.0 goes live before you say that there's no reason for paladins to complain. Some of us have been around long enough to take absolutely nothing Blizzard says or does regarding paladins at face value, and we have these views due to personal experience in dealing with Blizzard over these issues. If it doesn't get fixed when 3.0 goes live, it won't get fixed for months afterwards.

[Wildhorn]

2) lower cast time should mean lower spell power coefficient, meaning they're trying to reduce the damage?

No, the minimum coefficient used is 1.5, even if it is instant

[Adamonious]

It WOULD have been a buff, except that we don't have the mana to use it. We dont have the mana to go through our damage rotation 3 times, much less use hammer of wrath once they get low. Nothing is a buff unless the final resulting package is able to do well in high end arena without being carried by 2 more...'balanced' classes, being played by 2 super good players. That, or wallowing around on a bad battlegroup and STILL needing to be partially carried.



Wait till after 3.0 goes live before you say that there's no reason for paladins to complain. Some of us have been around long enough to take absolutely nothing Blizzard says or does regarding paladins at face value, and we have these views due to personal experience in dealing with Blizzard over these issues. If it doesn't get fixed when 3.0 goes live, it won't get fixed for months afterwards.

Good points all around. My only counter point is that blizzard asked for more feedback in the middle of this past week. Im guessing this means this coming friday or the next at the latest we will see some more changes to pallies of all specs. Around the same time They said the would "get to" the mana issue and the interupt issue. After saying that they will have to have a really good reason for not changing some of the paladins regen mechanics. But as you say, If we don't get any changes this coming friday there should def be some complaining going around.

[LTCrystallite]

<< plays a shaman =D

Instant cast hammer of wrath for pallies?
*thumbs up*

sounds good to me.

[Tigercat]

So why are Paladins magically doing so badly then? The idea of a Paladin just has some magnetic pull that attracts bad players? Yes arena is laughable and it's laughable precisely because some classes such as Paladins are so weak. By the way if you had any clue what so ever you would know that THE BEST PALADINS IN THE WORLD who are rated 2k+ all admit that it took them way more effort to get there than it did with any of their other toons. The only people who argue that Paladins are fine are casuals who do nothing but bgs and troll.

You're fucking retarded I'm telling you that paladins suck in arena but you disagree with me and then tell me arena is a joke. So you're basically agreeing with me but you're too stupid to realize it.

Paladins are FINE in arena. Gasp. The only paladins doing so terribly bad are the paladins that are....terribly bad!(Read: most of them, they're the new huntards I swear) The skill cap for paladins in arenas may be a tad low, but you're far from the only class that applies too. About the only class currently out of tune with any sort of arenas are druids in 2s and to a lesser extent 3s. I'd say warriors too, but that's mostly just the mace stuns talking, and that's more into my hatred for all the RNG stuns and such in the game; Blackout, I'm looking at you too. Are Paladins perfect as it stands right now? I think Blizzard would say no. Every class can always use a little fine tuning, and with their recent attitude of pleasing the casuals, morons, and casual morons at all costs, I expect Paladins to be one of the best classes come WotLK.

That doesn't change, nor is it influenced by, the fact that arenas are, in general, badly done and are nowhere near the e-sport status some people are clamoring for. You can see the same paladins that are skilled now in arenas dominate people the same ways in world pvp(also known as real pvp) and battlegrounds.

If I'm such a fucking retard, in your words, then why am I somehow able to elude your logic that I must be some sort of casual? I'd wager I've been playing this game longer than you have, have seen and done more than you have, and can simply roll with the changes much faster than you can. Enjoy your delusions though, the number of paladins around lately with unwarranted, yet massive inferiority complexes is getting out of hand.