lol 5k dps for the lock, 4k for rogue and mage. There is a big difference. Ah and lol at the ret and dk dps. :P
lol 5k dps for the lock, 4k for rogue and mage. There is a big difference. Ah and lol at the ret and dk dps. :P
Quoting from a blue post
Ret should be as close to the top as anyone else [...] For almost all of us, it's going to be impossible to tell whether the rogue doing 2500 dps and the paladin doing 2300 dps is because of the class or the player. And it is likely to be a different number on the very next boss.
Honestly, numbers dont mean much when we dont konw what kind of gear the players had...
Edit: Hell, a couple hundred DPS is even better. I have a Ret pally and Combat Sword Rogue right now. Would love to do some raiding with my Pally, but its tough to get into them on live.
Munk u seem to love paladin and ret spec :P
1. feral druid cat
2. feral druid bear
3. moonkin druid
4. restokin druid
5. resto druid
6. rest of classses
Yes I do, after 17 months of nothing but being the World of Warcrafts bitch I do enjoy getting to do a little dmg myself. More info about it is located in the link.Originally Posted by jangkun
I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you are looking for ransom, I can tell you I don't have money; but what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I've acquired over a very long career, skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you let my daughter go now that will be the end of it. I will not look for you, i will not pursue you but if you don't; I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you.
1) DPS specced/ geared players.
2) Tank specced/ geared players.
3) Healing specced/ geared players.
4) People not specializing properly.
5) Unskilled players.
LOL you are all just throwing numbers around without having any idea what you're talking about.
Equal dps when speced for dps means in a raid environment (and raid speced), not pvp. The fact that druids, shamans, priests and paladins can heal is not a utility that should by any means lower their dps in a raid, nor will it be used as a justification for tuning them below "pure dps" classes, in fact the idea that a "hybrid" should not be able to do "pure" quality dps because they can heal is retarded. You just misunderstand that the supposed pure classes possess a different and often more useful type of utility. Which is more useful in a raid, the fact that a Balance druid can shift out and heal himself, or the fact that a rogue/hunter has a utility to boost the tank's threat? Which one is used more often? Both "pure" and "hybrid" classes bring substantial buffs to the table as well, you cannot use those as a reason to gimp anyone's dps anymore. Now, within a given spec, there may be room for "pure dps" vs. "hybrid/utility" builds based on specific talent choices, but that does not mean that hybrids are automatically pigeonholed into being the buff bitch.
The point is that all classes are being engineered to have very, very close to equal potential. You will never see exactly equal DPS from all classes because each fight favors the mechanics of a particular class/spec or type of dps and because it's impossible. But across the board, if you look at numbers across a variety of different fights, things should be pretty close to even for all classes, and everyone should have the chance to hit #1 on certain fights. The numbers you see in the beta, prior to final tuning, should not be used as a basis for comparison of the dps of different classes. Only after release will we know what the comparative numbers really look like, and even then there will still be many adjustments made in future patches.
The classes that will be most desired in any raid will be those needed to balance the raid's numbers. Overall, you will still need 1-3 tanks, 6-10 healers, and around 15 dps for most raids, and in most cases there will probably be an advantage to bringing both melee, ranged and spellcasters, and in general you'll get more buffs from bringing a variety of classes as opposed to stacking a single class. Kind of like now. The only real difference I see based on the change is that it gives more viability to that second enhancement shaman or boomkin or ret paladin, so their raid invite is not solely dependent upon a buff. Which is a good thing, since nobody enjoys feeling like the spec you enjoy isn't raid viable, and nobody enjoys feeling like a walking crit totem either.
I am not one to implicitly trust Blizzard's class design so much, but when they explicitly say that all classes should have equal dps potential, I am willing to trust that they will implement something close to that. In any case if you play a "pure" class and are upset because hybrids won't be capped at 95% of your dps, consider that it could be because "pure" classes have utility too.
Lol, if you people honestly think Blizzard is capable of creating classes of equal, even semi-equal DPS output.... you've obviously been playing for a month.
Don't forget that arena is also an area of balance, and as long as it exists, one class will always be superior at damage dealing, and one class will be the worst, and the gap will never be close.
Maybe closer than TBC, but a 10% margin I don't foresee as being possible.
You seem to forget...they have never tried beforeOriginally Posted by Baever
That's an old dps chart.Originally Posted by Menin
For example, that was before AB got nerfed into the ground for arcane mages. Arcane mages can't put out anywhere near that amount of dps now.
Fixed.
1 Malakai (lock-destro): 4922
2 Xenocloud (rogue-assn): 4175
3 Cheesy (mage-arc): 3975
4 Leica (hunter-surv): 3744
5 Nukezz (lock-affliction?): 3707
6 Lightnyn (ele sham): 3689
7 Sorebawlz (hunter-bm): 3536
8 Mysticfox (mage-frost): 3217
9 Empyrea (mage-fire): 3186
10 Priz (hunter-surv): 3149
11 Wishes (priest-shadow): 2792
12 Teq (DK-blood): 2537
13 Supyo (Pally-Ret): 2255
14 Rekk (War-Arms?): 2197
15 Devium (DK-Frost): 1843
Good thing they are just recently working on numbers. Ironic that I have heard nothing but people complaing Ret pallies are OP and yet they are doing less than half the DPS of the the guys at the top of the charts.
Calm down. Angry McRage.Originally Posted by Menin
I'm just pointing out to people that those numbers are old and shouldn't be relied upon as to how the various classes and specs perform on the dps metres. A lot has changed since then. No need to get defensive.
And we'll see about the devs making output numbers the same. We know that in end level raiding for BT they got it wrong. Classes raiding SWP had quite a big gap in dps compared to others.
Im not so sure Menin.
Ive seen plenty of weekly reports from retadins doing well over 3k @ 80 in raid enviroments. I would be much more apt to believe your retadin sucked donkey nut balls than that the spec/class is weak. I know a lot of live retadins who should do over 1k raid dps but cant seem to break 500 too.
Call me silly but I believe Blizzard is telling us the truth when they say on their spreadsheets ret pallies are doing competitive EG +-200 dps than pures.
I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you are looking for ransom, I can tell you I don't have money; but what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I've acquired over a very long career, skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you let my daughter go now that will be the end of it. I will not look for you, i will not pursue you but if you don't; I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you.
In BT/SWP Blizzard was not trying to make all classes have equal DPS potential, this was not even remotely a goal for them. Now it is an explicit goal.Originally Posted by Pasture
They didn't "get it wrong", they changed their class design philosophy.
Ironically if you care to do the research you will see that well played/geared players preform almost exactly how blizzard says they designed them to.Originally Posted by Badeggplant
I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you are looking for ransom, I can tell you I don't have money; but what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I've acquired over a very long career, skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you let my daughter go now that will be the end of it. I will not look for you, i will not pursue you but if you don't; I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you.
Agree 95%, I'd put Warriors on par with locks and huntersOriginally Posted by Morden
I'd like to remember everyone that rogues and mages can ONLY do dps so i think they deserve to stay on top...
I'm talking about raid dps, not instances/heroics.
thanks for info Menin...
from what i saw on videos, enh shamy and dk are little behind rogues and mages...
Originally Posted by tetrisgoat
5. an outcome of events contrary to what was, or might have been, expected From dictionary.comOriginally Posted by Menin
Its ironic because you inferred that Blizzard in spite of their best efforts could neither predict the end-game results nor could they make it "balanced". They actually did both It just wasnt what us hybrids wanted.
I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you are looking for ransom, I can tell you I don't have money; but what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I've acquired over a very long career, skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you let my daughter go now that will be the end of it. I will not look for you, i will not pursue you but if you don't; I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you.
Mages can only DPS, AoE, CC, buff the raid, interrupt, put debuffs on mobs...Originally Posted by Eclipsed
Rogues can only DPS, CC, buff tank threat, interrupt, stack healing/movement/haste debuffs...
Wait, what were we talking about again? Please tell me this isn't that "hybrids can heal so they should be capped at 90-95% of a pure class" crap again...