Raid DPS Rankings?

[Jerazznor]

1. Awesome players
2. Great players
3. Good players

QFT

[Wintie]

1) Warlocks, Mages, Hunters, Rogues (Pure DPS classes)
2) Fury Warriors, Shadow Priests, Ele/Ench Shaman, DPS DK's (Can fit 2 roles)
3) Boomkin, Ret Pallies. (Can fit 3 roles)

For all you Hybrids saying "well we have to go and respec and get gear", yeah thats all good and stuff but we have to reroll if we want to heal... all our mounts, titles, rep, pets, gear GONE! I rolled a Druid for this very reason, if you want to do good DPS then REROLL LIKE WE HAVE TO! Don't spew this bullshit.

Utility is a non-issue now with the buff changes. The rest is irrelevant, luxuries mostly.

[mud_lime]

^that's just stupid

1. Skilled players (any dps specc even ret and moonkin)
2. Retard player that just pick a lock or rogue cause they "are imba dps"

[Deleted]

Rogues, Mages, hunter, warlocks : 100%
All other dps : 95%
Healers : 70%
Tanks : 60%

And for the ones who always bring up the fact that PvP and PvE won't be able to ba balanced well together, this is the "Raid & Dungeons" section. You made your points, it is valid, but stop shoving it down everybody's throat when they are all arguing about PvE only.

[deemor]

i don`t think locks should be on the top, because they have 1 of the best utility, soulestones.
used on the right person you have 1 mate more per lock per fight (forget about the cd).
also they have healthstones, if they don`t share the cd`s with hp-mana-pot in wotlk.


in my opinion every dd should have a specc thats difficult to play but brings the most dps when ur skilled.
but blizz don`t think so, looking at wls pushing 1 button the whole fight and top dps like zomg, so stupid (i think the wl`s would also love to have a more challanging fight)

when it comes to singletarget bossfights:

1) rogues, warriors
2) hunters 90-95%
3) all other dps 85% (ae classes here, because in aefights they are needed)

[Pasture]

By that argument, Paldins, Priests, Druid are not allowed to do 100% dps because they can also be healers and tanks in another specc...

Everybody brings something to the raid, so all dps classes should put out more dps the more skilled the player is (with compareable gear)

Paladins, priests and druids can also heal themselves WHILST IN DPS SPEC. If things are going badly in the raid and there aren't enough heals going round they can throw themselves a heal to make sure they stay alive.

[Kubba]

i don`t think locks should be on the top, because they have 1 of the best utility, soulestones.
used on the right person you have 1 mate more per lock per fight (forget about the cd).

This argument is one of the worst i had to read against Locks.
Are you serious?

[Xzander37]

@ the above poster, your complaint is typical but not valid. A hybrid can only do one thing at a time too and if he wishes to do something else, he has to not only respec but collect an entirely new set of gear, and when you are trying to gear up to do that new thing competitively it's next to impossible when you account for things like dkp and having to go through a whole series of instances again. So it's not fair to say mages should get to do more dps just because they can't be tanks or healers.

People put alot onto talents. Talents don't make you something they make you better at something. Just cause a mage goes frost dosen't mean they can't cast fire spell, just means his frost is better then a non frost speced. A hybrid has three abilitys heal,damage,tank. The talents don't remove these base skills just enhances the spec you chose.

A boomkin should be able to shift out and heal while still doing as much damage as a mage because that boomkin does not have the ability to ice block, blink, counterspell, polymorph, or do any number of other things that a mage can do just because he is a mage.

But the boomkin can root, cyclone, switch to bear form, switch to travel form. Don't imply that all a boomkin has is dps and heals they have their own tricks other than heals.

It may very well be that your damage ends up being, as you say, 3-5% higher than a hybrid, but there is nothing wrong with that being the case because your support abilities are all built around helping you do damage and continue dealing damage through spells, while a druid or shaman has to put 50+ point in a talent tree just to become a caster.

No a druid or shamman don't have to put 50+ points to be a caster, they have to put 50+ points to become a BETTER caster then one that dosen't. A druid in any spec will still have wrath/moonfire/starfire.

Alot seem to forget that spell damage spell healing is going to become one stat "spell power" so a balance druid today with 1k spell damage has a healing of 1k. but when the change comes he'll all of a suden have (going on 1.88 healing to damage) 1880 healing and 1000 damage.

[Badeggplant]

A druid speced 55 points into Balance does not have raid viability except as a caster. It's pretty stupid imo to say you should be limited in your chosen role just because you can respec and play another role. Hybrids aren't speced 71/71/71 you know. Yes druids do have some tricks of their own, I'm not denying that, but for druids talents do a lot more to define/confine your role than they do for mages or rogues.

Refer to my above example about a Balance speced druid wearing Resto gear. His heals are half as effective and burn his mana twice as fast even in the same gear as a Resto speced druid, and this is taking the spell power change into account, making his off healing a largely null utility. It is simply not worth it to heal at all in the vast majority of boss fights because our heals are ineffective and mana inefficient compared to an actual healer, and we do much better when we focus on dealing damage. Similarly, for caster speced/geared druids, having access to feral forms in raids is largely a novelty useful only in a very small number of fights. Sure your bear form might help you not die when you pull aggro and a mob is beating on you for a few seconds, but non-Feral druids are going to have a pretty darn tough time tanking raid bosses. The fact that we are able to heal ourselves is made up for by the fact that most of a pure classes' baseline abilities to support its role for all specs are stronger than a druid's. Think about it this way, every ability in a mage's spellbook is designed to help that mage deal, continue dealing, and survive to deal spell-based damage. You can't really say the same thing for a druid, since for any given spec around 75% or more of our spellbook is going to be completely useless 99.9% of the time.

You can think of hybrids and damage dealing classes as being on relatively equal footing in TBC because where hybrids cannot match the dps potential of pure classes, pure classes also could not match the type of buffs that hybrids brought to the table. We already could heal and you already couldn't, but that wasn't the reason our DPS was lower, it was because we had high utility. In WotLK, pure classes are being given utility to match hybrids, so hybrids have to be given the DPS of pure classes in order to maintain that equal footing. If you nerf our damage because we are able to heal, you only further unbalance the game.

[Deleted]

People put alot onto talents. Talents don't make you something they make you better at something.

PvE: take a dps/heal/tank that doesn't put points in his corresponding tree. Are you seriously going to consider him viable for that role ? No (unless some very specific and restricted cases), because progression won't work with people not pulling 100% of their weight. A caster that can't dps (ie does 30% damage less because of talents) is not a dps. There's a reason mages were asked to respec on Alar in progression raids.
So yes, talents do define your role.

PvP : take a druid in 2v2 arena. Remove Swiftmend (15s cd IH), Furor (pre-requisite for fast bash and feral charge), Feral charge (interrupt/stun), Nature's Grasp (procced root), CoN (pushback resist on roots and cyclone). You'll notice i haven't touched a single healing power talent.
But i have destroyed that druids ability to CC people and get distance. He's not simply weaker at what he does, he lost a complete role (or you could say that he's just 90% weaker at ccing, great isn't it ?). PvP requires all players to use a much larger portion of their skill array to be efficient, and many of those skills come from/are affected by talents. So yes, talents do define your role in pvp too.

[davesurfer]

in my opinion every dd should have a specc thats difficult to play but brings the most dps when ur skilled.
but blizz don`t think so, looking at wls pushing 1 button the whole fight and top dps like zomg, so stupid (i think the wl`s would also love to have a more challanging fight)

I have an afflic loc, and I push more than one button. The only way to top the meter is perfect DoT management which all timed differently, poping trinkets and SB in between.


I find my Mage much easier to play and dish out DPS.

[Izenhart]

I have an afflic loc, and I push more than one button. The only way to top the meter is perfect DoT management which all timed differently, poping trinkets and SB in between.

Wait wat?

Hey lad, you're doing it wrong.
Wanna see wich is the only viable spec for locks nowadays?

Trinket!

Go on 'till boss is dead.
How sweet! I used 1 button compared to the 5-6 of affliction, and had double of the deepees!

[yomyom]

People put alot onto talents. Talents don't make you something they make you better at something. Just cause a mage goes frost dosen't mean they can't cast fire spell, just means his frost is better then a non frost speced. A hybrid has three abilitys heal,damage,tank. The talents don't remove these base skills just enhances the spec you chose.


But the boomkin can root, cyclone, switch to bear form, switch to travel form. Don't imply that all a boomkin has is dps and heals they have their own tricks other than heals.
No a druid or shamman don't have to put 50+ points to be a caster, they have to put 50+ points to become a BETTER caster then one that dosen't. A druid in any spec will still have wrath/moonfire/starfire.

Alot seem to forget that spell damage spell healing is going to become one stat "spell power" so a balance druid today with 1k spell damage has a healing of 1k. but when the change comes he'll all of a suden have (going on 1.88 healing to damage) 1880 healing and 1000 damage.

Not always true. Prot warriors (untill 3) do not have the tools needed to dps, as warrior attacks are 31 talent points.

Pallys are similar, to dps you need the later ret talents.

To melee as a shammy you need stormstrike, once again, later end talent.

If you want to say that just because these classes can hit things with melee they can dps with it, then everyone is a healer, as we all have access to 1st aid, and mages are now melee dps! go go 5dps from you dagger!.

For some classes you can do it all, but your spec makes you better (druids are a good example) but for others the important abilities needed are only found in the later end of the their respective trees. (this is not a QQ, thats just the say it is)

[Badeggplant]

Paladins, priests and druids can also heal themselves WHILST IN DPS SPEC. If things are going badly in the raid and there aren't enough heals going round they can throw themselves a heal to make sure they stay alive.

Oh noes!

Can rogues use Cloak of Shadows while in "dps spec" too now?

[Badeggplant]

For all you Hybrids saying "well we have to go and respec and get gear", yeah thats all good and stuff but we have to reroll if we want to heal... all our mounts, titles, rep, pets, gear GONE! I rolled a Druid for this very reason, if you want to do good DPS then REROLL LIKE WE HAVE TO! Don't spew this bullshit.

You're absolutely right. It's so OP that I have a class that can DPS and also respec to heal, AND THEY BOTH GET TO RIDE THE SAME BEAR MOUNT. Blizz this needs a nerf. /sarcasm

[Baever]

You're absolutely right. It's so OP that I have a class that can DPS and also respec to heal, AND THEY BOTH GET TO RIDE THE SAME BEAR MOUNT. Blizz this needs a nerf. /sarcasm

Kid..

He meant that if someone's interest in the game changes, i.e. 'no moar DPS for meh,' a player with a current main that is a pure DPS class is forced to re-roll, re-grind rep and re-accomplish achievements should they desire to become a tanking or healing spec.

Regardless of whether or not this holds viability in the current argument, it still makes you look like an idiot for your reply. L2evaluate.

[Spots]

This is not a who you think will be top, but more of a who you would be happy with:

1. Rogue 100%
2. Mage 95%
3. Warlock / Hunter 90%
4. DPS DK/ DPS Shaman / DPS Warriors / Retri Pally / DPS Druid / Shadow Priest 70-80%
5. Tanks any specs 60%


Im hoping they float around those sort of numbers myself, anyone else think different or similar?

You, mister rogue, should be forced to roll druid. And forced to specc moonkin. Maybe then you'll see what shit you are trying to sell here.......

[Dyo]

mage on 2nd place ? i will die before i will see that ~~
1 rogue hunter
2 lock
3 doesnt matter

[chaz079]

1) rogue most over time
2) mage or lock fast at start if lose mana useless.
3) not really important but i would say hunter or fury warrior

[Domonkazu]

1) Warlocks, Mages, Hunters, Rogues (Pure DPS classes)
2) Fury Warriors, Shadow Priests, Ele/Ench Shaman, DPS DK's (Can fit 2 roles)
3) Boomkin, Ret Pallies. (Can fit 3 roles)

For all you Hybrids saying "well we have to go and respec and get gear", yeah thats all good and stuff but we have to reroll if we want to heal... all our mounts, titles, rep, pets, gear GONE! I rolled a Druid for this very reason, if you want to do good DPS then REROLL LIKE WE HAVE TO! Don't spew this bullshit.

Utility is a non-issue now with the buff changes. The rest is irrelevant, luxuries mostly.

wow isnt pve only game.

sorry but we can't do that while stunned, poly, feared, blinded.

would you bring an enh shaman over a rogue or an ele shaman over a mage in your arena team??

reason why hybrid sucks in arena in TBC because their damage is 30% lower than pure classes and their so called "utility" and buff pretty much useless.

show me a 3v3 team on MLG which bring any shaman or pally, feral/balance druid.