so what do prot paladins want?* lol

[Deleted]

I'm not asking for amazing, just not completely worthless. Check out how much prot warrior PvP is getting buffed

You won't get any useful tanking gear from pvp anyway, so, why care? Atleast I haven't bothered to get much more than the pvp shoulders for my tankadin, none of the other gear gives defense/dodge/parry so it's useless in pve.

[Maenetus]

it's not about getting the gear, easy enough to respec for that.

it's about having fun PvPing in your main spec

[Deleted]

it's not about getting the gear, easy enough to respec for that.

it's about having fun PvPing in your main spec

Well, the issue is, you're pitting a tank against human players. You can't just build agro on them and expect to be able to tank them. They'll always do stuff you have no control over, very much different from pve situation. As such, tanks in pvp are mostly redundant. They do well in WSG or AB, but in those situations you are taking a defensive stance; tanks going offensive is totally the opposite of what their role is all about.

So, sure, give tanks a little bit more survivability in pvp, I am not against that. Just don't expect to fair well in arena or AV.

[Maenetus]

You can't just build agro on them and expect to be able to tank them.

hence the trick is to lower the bonus threat and raise the damage.
like warrior's shockwave.

survivability is a great trait for PvP, it's the threat multipliers holding down tank damage that make prot PvP stink

more survivability

we've got that part covered. we even have a fair number of threat talents that could double as DPS talents. Even the PvP gear is itemized well for us (str + stam)

it's just that will all the threat modifiers we're tuned to do weak damage, and we don't have many tools to make up for it.

[Deleted]

But if tanks started making more damage and less threat....they'd just become another dps spec.

[Maenetus]

currently we do a quarter as much damage as the DPS when things are being pushed, that's a lot of room to work with.

we do ~double our damage as TPS and DPS classes do half their damage as TPS

I'd be much happier doing half the damage that the DPS do. In DPS gear that would likely put me at 75% as much (as opposed to the 50% of top line dps that I can hit if I'm lucky in DPS gear)

[Deleted]

Well, you do a quarter of the damage, but...have you noticed that you can take almost double the damage, too? I've had several times 2 rogues on me and I've killed them both, that's not something dps classes are capable of.

[Spoonerism]

have to admit my feral druid does more dps in bear than either palas or warr tanks(in similar gear) - typically 2x vs a single target, although obvioulsy palas make up for it on multi-mob packs using consecration.

given that the same feral druid can kill rogues in bear form in battlegrounds(lacerate spam lolz) I dont think increasing single target dps would hurt prot paladins - at the end of the day I'm talking about 300-400dps while tanking its hardly going to worry pure dps classes. The arena is another matter, but that seems to need ideal spec and class combo in 2v2/3v3 so this prob is not unique to paladins.

I gather the idea of wrath is that paladins share many items(possibly all bar tier?) with warriors/death knights so hopefully more str = more ap = more dmg? :-\

[Maenetus]

yeah taking on 2-3 melee classes is nice... but the smart ones know how to bleed you.

besides, what's the harm?

I gather the idea of wrath is that paladins share many items(possibly all bar tier?) with warriors/death knights so hopefully more str = more ap = more dmg?

our tanking set actually has the highest str ^.^

though the feral set being a hybrid set is loaded with expertise crit and Arp so ferals will likely still have the edge.

though the real reason ferals do more is all about bonus threat and multipliers.
Warrior tanks have lots of bonus threat on their abilities, which means they do very little DPS per TPS (at least in TBC) and paladins do 190% holy damage to threat as opposed to druids/warriors doing ~150%

[Maenetus]

Concussion Blow now deals [75% of AP] damage (up from 25%) but doesn't cause a high amount of threat anymore.

Shockwave now deals [75% of AP] damage (up from 50%) but doesn't cause a high amount of threat anymore.

no change in TPS but a big boost to DPS