[Brain Storm] Fun Talent ideas late in Prot or Ret.

[Rakai]

What about Crusaderstrike increasing your haste? That would make sense for PvE, or just let Crusaderstrike deal Holy damage, just a 110% weapon damage instant isn't worthy as a 41 talent.

[mcstu]

What about Crusaderstrike increasing your haste? That would make sense for PvE, or just let Crusaderstrike deal Holy damage, just a 110% weapon damage instant isn't worthy as a 41 talent.

something like that yes. I think that CS has too important for everyone to segragate an additional effect to a pvp only ability.

[Khan]

Now I haven't read the whole thread, but I'm gonna go ahead anyway.

Paladins; the Warriors with many lifes (bubble and heal, LoH) or the Priests in plate etc.
I was thinking 'bout extending that thought, and do a tanking variant of the Priest's Spirit of Redemption.

The spirit of your Paladin tank lives on. Aggro is increased, but there is no damage output.

The Priest's spirit is there for a 15 sec duration, but unable to move. Movement is crucial for the tank, and to balance it out the duration would obviously be cut shorter.

Why would this be needed? Yes, most of the times this will just delay the inevitable, but sometimes it will be the last resort which results in victory.
Instead of having the Warrior tank beeing the "progression tank", the Paladin will be able to wink its' eye and say "Hey, guys! I can play Jesus "

Unfair to the other tanking classes? I don't know, the duration is the key. The fact that the invulnerable spirit's running around for such a short amount of time I can't say it seems so unfair.
You might as well say that instead of taking a better geared Warrior you can get that Paladin with slightly less good gear, but is able to absolve his duty for as long time as that Warrior would.
But when the item level for the Warrior and the Paladin is alike, the Paladin is absolutely having an advantage. At least when it comes to survivability.
Can't say anything about the aggro generation in WotLK, but perhaps the Warriors are better than the Paladins in that aspect.

Discuss it and/or piss on it or just ignore it; your choice!

And yes, the Druids were intentionally ignored.

[Retrogames]

What about Crusaderstrike increasing your haste? That would make sense for PvE, or just let Crusaderstrike deal Holy damage, just a 110% weapon damage instant isn't worthy as a 41 talent.

I'm wondering why no one considered giving Crusader Strike an armor penetration ability. For example, because it's treated as physical damage, it's mitigated by armor. Would be interesting if they provided Crusader Strike with a "your attack causes x damage and ignores ##-## armor."

... or of course, just switch it over to Holy Damage, I guess. ;D

Now I haven't read the whole thread, but I'm gonna go ahead anyway...

...The spirit of your Paladin tank lives on. Aggro is increased, but there is no damage output.

Should have read the thread, you're 4 pages too late; http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.ph...4483#msg244483

As for the rest of the thread, it would be much easier if people organized their thoughts a little more. Some of these posts give me a headache :-\.

[Endarius]

New "Fun" abilities, eh? Well, there's always the old favorite of:

Judgment of the Crusade (1 Talent point, Deep Ret)

Unleashes the energy of a Seal spell to judge an enemy for 20 sec, giving the target the "Undead" Subtype in addition to its normal type. Refer to individual Seals for additional Judgment effect. Only one Judgement per Paladin can be active at any one time.
5% of base mana, 10 yd range, Instant cast, 10 sec cooldown

It would be nifty to sacrifice regen to add a little more damage & fears, and in pvp you would need to choose between this and justice. Downside is they just cleaned up the judgment system, this would make it a little less... simplistic.

My other idea is a variant on a previous one of mine designed to combat healers, here is a simpler version:

Heresy (3 Talent points, deep ret)

Whenever a target currently under effects of your judgment spell casts a heal, there is a 33%/66%/100% chance of refreshing the cool down of your crusader strike for 5 seconds, and reducing its mana cost by 100%. In addition, all crusader strike damage for the next 5 seconds counts as holy damage instead of physical damage.   

Further leading to my paladin motto- Healing should not be dealt with control, healing should be countered by MORE DAMAGE!!!

Fun stuff.

[Endarius]

Eh, a mana return from opponent's healing seems like it would only be available for about 1% or less of actual play- we should not have any efficiency solutions based upon the actions of an enemy. It IS however a 3 point optional pvp healer-killing talent, addressing the actual problem we have.

Fix regeneration somewhere else!  ;D

[Omatre]

Here ya go Ret's:

Put it 40 points deep.

3 Tiers 2/4/6%

Fury of Arthas

Your attacks cause enrage, while enraged you gain 2/4/6% more critical rating, and movement speed is increased by 5/10/15%. This talent cannot occur more than once every 10 seconds. It has a 5 second duration.

Eliminate Pursuit of Justice in doing so, this speed increase WILL stack with other speed increasing talents or enhants (i.e. boars speed, cats swiftness on boots). Giving you a nice small damage modifier, and for those in PVP, a nice way to hawk someone down as they try to flee.


For Prot. Here's the talent i want

1st tier
1 talent point, 100% chance

Talent is called " Trim my tree "

There's a 100% chance that Blizzard will make kings baseline, and cause my tree to not feel like the fat kid hiding in the closet with a box of king don's and a carton of Yoohoo. This effect cannot last through Live. Has a once in a lifetime use, and the effect can be dispelled and / or resisted by Blizzard developers.

[ionpath]

Been thinking a few ideas for some tweaked trees (including Holy) but also trying to make them as balanced and viable for both PvE and PvP/Arena as possible. Though there's a very fine line between balanced and OP talent/ability I tried to stay somewhere in the middle with this thing


http://www.war-tools.com/t58081.html

[Lumidar]

Deep Prot:
Righteous Defender
reduces the cool down on righteous defense by 2, 4, 7, secs and has a 33/66/100% chance to place a defensive remnant on the target, causing the next damage to the target within 5 secs to judge the enemy for normal Judgement damage and incapacitating the attacker for 4 secs. Damage causes threat to the paladin.

not gonna happen for 2 reasons.. they already reduced the cooldown on it.... and the "Target" is a friendly target cus we cast the skill on friendly targets not the mob directly.

[mcstu]

Been thinking a few ideas for some tweaked trees (including Holy) but also trying to make them as balanced and viable for both PvE and PvP/Arena as possible. Though there's a very fine line between balanced and OP talent/ability I tried to stay somewhere in the middle with this thing


http://www.war-tools.com/t58081.html

Sorry.., again..., improved crusader strike or a revised CS must be pve-friendly...and anyhoo, a 2 sec silence on a talent with a 6 sec cooldown is very OP. CS is a damage ability therefore any improvements to it must enhance damage - no silence, no snare, no cc but damage. I'm Not against there being an interupt per se, but not on CS. Personally i like the idea of improved consecration somewhere near the top of the holy tree ' + dmg of consectration and any enemy casting while in consecration will be silenced for 1-2 seconds'

[Silandra]

Ret
Martyr's Reasoning:
Whenever you receive damage from your Hand of Sacrifice, you gain 1% bonus damage for 10 seconds. Stacks up to 50.

Read: DO NOT F***ING TOUCH MY FRIEND. Most likely it won't stack up to 50 as you - and the person it's on - will most likely be dead by the time it hit 20 in PvP. In PvE there's too much dodging, parrying, etc. going on for it to redirect that many times to you... probably 7-10 max.

Prot:
Improved Hand of Salvation:
While active, 5/10/15/20/25% of the threat generated by whomever is effected by your Hand of Salvation is redirected to you.

[Lumidar]

we have enough threat as prot.. we need mitigation and viability to be main tank.

[Endarius]

Heres a wild deep prot talent- horray for being bored at work!

Inquisition (Deep Prot, 1 Talent)

Whenever you are struck by a spell, and have that school's Spell Resistance Aura Active, that spell is considered as a physical attack.

(Example: Inorder for it to activate against a frostbolt, you would would need your frost resistance aura active at the time you get hit)

This would allow you to mitigate spelldamage by blocking and armor if your quick on the aura swap, as well as allow holy shield to proc (And therefore grant threat) against spellcasters. Its not as powerful as say, shield reflect, but it would always be up. If you think its too good, remember your saccing devo (and imp devo) aura to use it.

Cause honestly, when’s the last time you worried mid fight about your resistance auras?

[Endarius]

While the Spellshield Aura would be nice, I dont think they would allow that easy of Armor use v.s. Spells. Most Spelldamage is based around the fact that the tanking classes cant midigate it with armor- it might as well be a "takes 50% less damage from all spells", which would even be rediculously OP for a deathknight.

I suppose I would modify it to this, if we got your "All resist Aura's in 1" gig.

Inquisition (Deep Prot, 1 Talent)

Whenever you are struck by a spell while under the effect of "Spellshield Aura", that spell is considered as a physical attack for purposes of Blocking".

Again, the Core idea was a little bit of midigation from blocking, as well as threat from holy shield v.s. Casters. Full armor v.s. spells would be too much.

[cenkadin]

Bliz never gave anyone ~70% spell damage reduction

[Endarius]

Right, that is what I was getting at. The exact wording on the mechanic would be tweaked of course- the whole point is it should use up a charge on holy shield, rather than just being treated as if it was. More buttons to push = more fun (and challenging) than all the passive abilities that have defined Holy midigation (This is not to say we aren't busy mashing our five threat spells).

Of course, if you want to get into something "cool and paladinish" with incoming Spelldamage, you could do something like:

Arcane Sanctification (1-3 Talents, deep prot)
Whenever you are struck by a spell and you have holy shield active, you heal for 30% of the spell damage done over 8 seconds.

Give it a graphical blocking effect, and remove spell warding. It would be much more interesting and paladinish than some more weak passive nonsence, without actually reducing any of the incoming damage.

[Retrogames]

All of this magic resistance Inquisition hooey (it's a word, look it up)

The resistance auras have always been pretty mediocre; they invoke the global cooldown and they don't produce a tangible effect you can 'feel' because all they do is affect the number-crunching going on behind a fight (so you're left trying to figure out if switching was effective or not). Nost of the time you're so busy fighting that aura-twisting never really enters your mind. I'm sure all of us, at one point or another, had to remind ourselves to switch off Crusader Aura.

My attempts to solve this issue have led me to a few possible solutions;

1. Separate resistance auras from regular auras, and allow the paladin to maintain both a 'regular' aura (Devotion, Retribution, Concentration) and a resistance aura (Fire, Frost, Shadow) at the same time. My inclination is to provide this not as a baseline ability, but as a Protection or Holy based Talent, somewhere around the third or fourth tier of the tree so it is reachable by other specs. The basic idea is, you don't have to sacrifice the 'regular' auras for a chance to resist a little damage. Doesn't remove the fact that you're still a slave to behind-the-scenes game mechanics though.

2. Allow resistance auras to do more than just resist. For example, one of my approaches was to allow resistance auras to reflect a percentage of the spell's damage back at the caster if the aura and spell school match (IE: A Mage casting fireball at a Paladin with Fire Aura active would be injured a percentage of whatever the spell hit for). In a way, it's Eye for an Eye, but school specific and works for all spells (not just crits). The damage caused to the caster could be applied before the aura's resistance reduces it or after, depending on balance. The idea here is, a magic resistance aura is now a serious offensive tool against casters that's tangible (even more so if there's a visual effect to show it working).

3.Remove the auras and redistribute the resistance effects and just allow players to grab passive magic resistance abilities. Overpowered, surely, and probably not viable for all schools of magic, but shadow for sure (a nod towards Lore where Paladins are strong against evil) Not very interesting, but it gets the job done. Frost might be a halfway decent one considering we're headed to Northrend to beat up Arthas. They would have to be baseline also; since they're still very situational, they'd be considered bloat and quickly passed over if they were talents.

4. Remove them entirely. Whatever value they represented in class balance could migrate somewhere more desirable. I'd trade in all three of my resistance auras to get a mana regen aura.

[Saraphim]

Just a thought... which would be purely for PvP.

Blazing Charge
Instant Cast
2-3 minute cooldown
Level 60-70+ spell

Instantly mounts the Paladin upon his holy charger, increasing movement speed by 100%(epic mount speed) for 5 seconds and making the Paladin immune to stuns and movement impeding effects for the duration, after 5 seconds the Paladin automatically dismounts and any cooldown present on either Judgment, Crusader strike or Divine Storm is instantly reset. This spell can be used during combat.

I have always wanted to have a "charge" type ability for the paladin, bit did not want to encroach on warrior turf by creating something almost identical to their intercept/charge abilities. Blazing Charge just smells of Paladin if you ask me. The 5 second duration is there so it can't be used as an escape mechanism, Paladins should not be fleeing from battle imo.

I was thinking that the cooldown refreshment effect could also be applied if the ability is removed/dispelled, but after giving it some thought I noticed it could, and properly would be used to increase burst damage by quickly burning the spell then dispelling it, therefor resetting your DS,CS and Judgment CD's with just a global cooldown, but on the other hand you need to have the ability to dispel the mounted effect when you are within melee range of your enemy and still get the full benefit of the spell. We can't really have paladins running around in circles on top of their fleeing/kiteing enemies waiting for the 5 seconds to expire so they can get the cooldown resetting effect. ;D

[Omatre]

Or they could actually roll spell warding into them, oh wait, crap, I thought of something intelligent.

Scrap that idea

70 resistance and 4% reduced spell school dmg doesn't sound too op to me. Not to mention 70 resistance is only what, 20% of the resistance cap? Hardly anything useful. In capped gear its nice and helpful to have, but besides that, its pretty well useless in my experiences, and nothing that blows my skirt up enough to not use devo/ret aura's.

[criticize]

not gonna happen for 2 reasons.. they already reduced the cooldown on it.... and the "Target" is a friendly target cus we cast the skill on friendly targets not the mob directly.

Maybe not the cooldown reduction sure. Yep, places a buff on your friendly target that causes the next attack dealt to them to cause judgement damage to the attacker, and mezzing them, causes threat the the paladin. Like a extra taunt if they get hit again within 5 secs. And pvp mez. Doesn't have to do all that, but it would be cool if it just mezzed.