[Discussion] SoC Change

[ionpath]

A bad nerf/buff for some good reasons. Sure there's is the talent synergy from RV and AoW but what about Fanaticism? Judgements tend to crit more often now with the new conviction and sanctified seals so this change to JoC is kinda weird.
Unless blizz takes another look between talent that increase critical judgement strike I say this is a bad nerf for RetPvP... But then again we do have lots of time before November 13

[Kawasaki.gdm]

You did know Judgements trigger GCD in Wrath of the Lich King right? So this macro will never work.

Your right, I forgot judges are now on GCD. But anyway you can do a macro, just add the cooldown timer. But is really dont needed now.

[Rollo]

forgive me if im incorrect, but wouldnt JoC already be around 81% chance to crit before this change, assuming 30% crit for the paladin, 25% from fanatcism, 20% from art of war, 3% from sanctified seals, and 3% from heart of the crusader?

this may provide more spike in pvp with a guaranteed crit, but imo, 4/5 judges critting for more dmg is better than 5/5 critting for less.

if it was considered OP, they could have just scaled the stun dmg down. As it stands, the rewording and change makes it seem like its a buff, when ti really isnt.

edit: just read a few of the posts. completely forgot about resilience in pvp when i wrote this. that does seem like a buff as well as proccing vengeance on the target and a instant flash of light. all in all, its a definate situational boost, while still dropping DPS slightly.

[Mysmere]

only fanaticism gives crit, art of war does not. and yeah, if i had fanaticism 5/5 i'd have 55% crit already. new soc is a huge nerf.

[Adamson]

I'm 100% glad they did this.

Our damage is fine. Having double damage + crits on already good damage is OP.

Ret's on the beta have been asking for this for a while. And we finally got it.

Notice that in 2 builds rets haven't been nerfed?



That leads me to believe blizzard is fine with our damage.

[Vorpal]

Yeah but isn't our pve damage still low?

[Adamson]

Yeah but isn't our pve damage still low?

Correct.

[mcstu]

Correct.

And you are fine with that?

I'm not, it was already low compared to other damage dealers, with utility pretty much diluted through other classes we needed to be doing similar dps not even less.

[Vorpal]

We are not ok with it, but the change to command has nothing to do with it.

[Vorpal]

Try adding 400 resilience to the math, it's 10,5% less crit if i remember correct.

[Mysmere]

instead of going for crit, i've loaded up on all the utility lower end crap, so i suppose that this is better for me than anyone who actually took 5/5 fanaticism (i have 2/5, and no divine ret). for the guy ahead of me who did the math, 27% crit chance = 13.5% base dmg, so its rather miniscule compared to the 100% previous.

all in all i'd say this is a soco pvp nerf = to about 1/2 your crit chance (+their resil reduc on crit bleh). so i'd say its about a 25% dmg nerf for me......yeah

also less dmg control, which is what i'm pissed about. boring classes ftl

[PalliesThrowStuff]

It's a slight nerf but who cares... it lead to insane burst that was gonna keep us limited in the long run. Now they can buff our DPS more without worrying about off the wall burst.

I need not post more than this, thank you sir for saving me some time.

[m1tch]

No one had mentioned how SoC giving us crits all the time when stunned also means an instant FoL all the time.

[PalliesThrowStuff]

No one had mentioned how SoC giving us crits all the time when stunned also means an instant FoL all the time.

Fair point, guaranteed heal against stunned opponents.

I think it's obvious that Ret's burst is too high, and their DPS is slightly too low at 80.

We have room for more talents, let's pull down some of our burst abilities, and add something new (Maybe a ret talent that refreshes Holy Vengeance/Blood Corruption on strikes or soemthing.

[b37x]

a ret talent that refreshes Holy Vengeance/Blood Corruption on strikes or soemthing.

Mmmmmmmmmmmm

[Deleted]

i don't know if anybody has watched the new tooltip but in mine JoC should do more dmg than JoB
lvl 70: blood ca. 870-930
command ca. 910-980

command does only half the dmg now, but i think that the tooltip is right(but NYI), and that in the next build we will do a lot more dmg with command.

[exphius]

Sorry but a talented seal over a baseline skill should some how be better in one way or another, But that is not the case.
Right now seal of blood does more consistant damage and seal of vengence has more all around damage. The only thing command has is the ability to "burst" (critting now on stunned targets) and even that is not enough to use it over the other seals.
That and keeping in mind that it is Socasino on the procs.


I know im horrid with my english, But to summerize on what i just said. Command needs to be noticeably better in one way or another than other seals that are BASELINE.

[Montoya]

I know im horrid with my english, But to summerize on what i just said. Command needs to be noticeably better in one way or another than other seals that are BASELINE.

It is better. In PvP, it is the king of seals. Pure and simple. The amount of burst damage that can be obtained with it is incredible.

PvE wise, yeah, it's lackluster. But for PvP, it's great!
Sorry, but I've tried it, your not going to use Blood in PvP...

[exphius]

I agree with not using blood in pvp. But seal of vengence on the other hand seems it could be alot more effective. Example being-

Im in arena vs a druid or warlock doesnt matter, but its hard to stay on your target 100 percent of the time. After vengence is stacked up on them, you have 15 seconds to refresh it b4 it is done and during that time they will continue to take the damage as they pillar hump. Dont get me wrong, ill switch over to command if they have a way to dispell. But Vengence seems like it would be alot more effective.

[Montoya]

I've thought about this as well.
Especially considering that it bypasses mitigation.
It keeps Rogues and Druids out of Stealth as long as it's active.
It's judgement damage scales with application.
Combined with Divine Storm it's a AoE DoT.

The main problem with it is that it's not truly effective until it's at 5 stacks.