Not happy with this new build

[GrumpyJester]

Can't get Tactical Mastery anymore, the Intervene bonus heavily nerfed (60% -> 30%)... my Prot Arena spec just became a lot less viable.

No doubt good news for the conservatives though: Arms/Fury for PvP, Prot for tanking...yawn.

[Trolgar]

Can't get Tactical Mastery anymore, the Intervene bonus heavily nerfed (60% -> 30%)... my Prot Arena spec just became a lot less viable.

No doubt good news for the conservatives though: Arms/Fury for PvP, Prot for tanking...yawn.

if youd call someone doing arena as full fury conservative i have some late and breaking news about live servers for you...

I would agree with you though about the intervene bonus. Safeguard is not worth picking up on any level unless you raid with a bunch of monkeys.

[Deleted]

Lol'ed..prot never meant to pvp,Arms is,fury is just the best dps spec,so it got SOME viability to arena(nonetheless,I dont see many in fury going high up in,lets say 2v2,due to fury's need to crit for flurry to increase dps and such).If you're prot,u anyway gt some nice BG survivalibility and can pwn the face of a non way superiously geared caster if u have talent into it.And yes,prot WAS,IS and WILL BE tanking spec,if u dont like it reroll pala/rogue whatever u like.

[Glencar]

Safeguard has got the bat but it still remains interesting.

Think Gurtogg Bloodboil or Zul'Jin.

[Deleted]

I can't stand to hear 'prot pvp' i have to avoid lookin in the warrior forum >.<

[Sard]

Safeguard was going to be OP as hell in pvp as a 30 second Pain Suppression. Are you sure you can't get Tac Mastery anymore, its only 2nd tier Arms? Anyone who doesn't think Safeguard is going to have at least some raiding uses is sadly mistaken - any kind of serious boss debuff/predictable damage spike may be able to be mitigated by having one warrior safeguard another.

[GrumpyJester]

Safeguard was going to be OP as hell in pvp as a 30 second Pain Suppression. Are you sure you can't get Tac Mastery anymore, its only 2nd tier Arms? Anyone who doesn't think Safeguard is going to have at least some raiding uses is sadly mistaken - any kind of serious boss debuff/predictable damage spike may be able to be mitigated by having one warrior safeguard another.

Yes, I guess Intervene was a bit overpowered in PvP, but I liked the role it gave me: a sort of PvP tanking. I was hoping they would nerf Prot damage, rather than Prot utility. Oh well, it's still decent.

And I can still get TM if I want to, of course. But it would be a choice between between 2/3 TM or 2/2 Imp. Charge...and I figured I'll gain more Rage through Imp. Charge than through TM. In my old build I could take both. Too bad TM isn't in the first tier of Arms.

[player404]

Fury is now much more viable for PvP.
Fury has a passive healing debuff, snare remove, and more dps.
Fury is now what arms has always been pre-3.0.

In arms, you get imp. hamstring and imp. intercept for PvP. That's about it. Even when comparing mortal strike to furious attacks, you get like:
Passive debuff that procs off of normal attacks, or an active ability that costs you 30 rage.

And if you are fighting spellcasters then alot of the talents in arms become useless because you need your zerker stance for interrupt and intercept.

Only good thing I can say about arms PvP is that its a rogue killer, thanks to unrelenting assault.

Oh, and BTW, safeguard was OP in arena, that nerf is good. And the new warbringer might now be able to remove roots. 2/2 safeguard didn't remove roots in the last build, only slowing effects, but now that its baked into warbringer, who knows. We'll have to see when the PTR is back.

Armed to the teeth is really a great addition IMO, for every spec, especially prot. Giving arms tactical mastery back is also great, but still arms has too few attractive talents in the lowest few tiers.

Oh, and one more thing: Blizzard has already said they have plan to improve the tree even further, especially arms. so I'm not worried at all. Their internal client (and server) is already some builds ahead of the beta/PTR, they only let loose what's ready to be tested. In my speculations, the build we will see today might be 1-3 builds behind what they have internally.

[AnArmedKurd]

Yeah. I find it kind of shocking though that while Mages/Rogues get buffed even more Warriors get nerfed, even if it's just changing stuff for the lulz.

[chester1908]

i agree with the creator of the topic. i know that prot arms and fury being equal in pvp may sound strange,but im also sick of seeing all warriors pvp as the same hybrid /yawn spec. lets try something different for once,pick fury dps style (now with more pvp viability),pick arms usual dps and pvp-focus talents,or pick less dps but more pvp-utilities as prot. now that is gone. there is no good reason to spend the 5 first talents in prot tree,only imp bloodrage is worth it.maybe incite should move up?toughness nerfed,imp s.r. nerfed,but still there are talents worth gatting in there,as long as they move warbringer up a tier or two...
as for fury,they nerfed the heroic leap-intercept combo...to compensate,they should add to heroic fury description (adds 2/3 secs of movement impairing effects immunity).bt was sure to be nerfed,but at least now its not affected by tg penalty. ofcourse the glyphs are not done yet (they are an important factor in wotlk) but if things remain as they are,arms will be the first choice for pvp by far.

[Kristul]

I am also seriously displeased by this new build. Rather than adding vague complaints I'll try to point out exactly why.

Exciting abilities nerfed hard:

- Safeguard (Tier 8 ) now reduces damage taken by the target of your Intervene ability by 15/30% for 6 sec

This ability now does half of what it used to. That is a very heavy-handed nerf. Warriors had to give up many other talents to get it in its previous state. Now, nobody will pick it up for PVP purposes. It seems that "protection" warriors can no longer "protect" anyone else in the battle.

- Improved Spell Reflection (Tier 4) no longer reduces the cooldown of Spell Reflection.

This was not only another tool that made Protection viable, but it was also a part of many diverse and exciting builds that went 2-4 tiers into the protection tree. Spell reflect is a very important tool in PVP, and instead of reducing the cooldown, it now works awkwardly for nearby party members. Casters already would just moonfire or ice lance it off. Now they can just moonfire or ice lance any nearby opponent to remove the spell reflect. It's almost like they made it easier to remove it. I imagine many times people won't even notice spell reflect, it will just catch a syphon life, a fire blast, or some other nonessential spell. Then, it's cooling when you need to reflect that polymorph, cyclone, shatter/deep freeze.

- Toughness (Tier 3) reduces movement impairing effect duration by 6/12/18/24/30%. (Old - 10/20/30/40/50%)

I find this extremely discouraging. This is the third protection talent that has been heavily nerfed. I never got the chance to try out the mobility that many other melee classes already have (feral druids, shadowstep rogues, swift assassination rogues with surefooted, etc.) I can't see the reasoning behind this. I don't know why we have to be the snared rooted CCed class all the time.

- Heroic Leap has been removed.

I wish they had fixed it instead of scrapping it. If they simply used the ability "blink" or "shadowstep" as a mechanical base for the ability, I think it would have been fine. Just a blink or a shadowstep that looked and sounded different would have been quite fun and useful in a large variety of situations. Change the cooldown, distance, or target vs. no target. Just don't scrap it.

- Bloodthirst (Tier 7) healing reduced from 1.5% of your max health to 0.6% of your max health.

Why did you do that? These are very small amounts of health. Before the health gain was laughable (what was it, like 30 health?). It my mind, you fixed it, and then you broke it again. In what situation was this too much health?

- Iron Will (Tier 2) now reduces the duration of all Stun and Charm effects used against you by 7/14/20%. (Previously 10/20/30%)

What for? cutting down a nice ability by 33% is very displeasing. What it says to me is that you want us stunned longer, and combined with the protection nerf you want us slowed longer. I want to be controlled less often, and I'd pay for it with talent points......if you'd let me.

I feel like the above nerfs together have caused many warriors to abandon the protection tree for PVP. They have also made us easier to stun (iron will nerf), easier to snare for a longer time (toughness nerf), and easier to crowd control (spell reflect nerf). It is worse than a damage nerf, they have made it so that warriors are more easily controlled by every form of control possible (even mind control!). This will make warriors very frustrating to play in PVP, and has eliminated countless exciting and interesting builds.

I feel like we're back to the point where our PVP specs only differ by 3 or 4 talent points, and where we sit in sheeps, cyclones, crippling poison, roots, and stuns all day.

All of this combined with the following assassination buffs

Ambush damage increased.

Backstab damage increased.

has got me working hard on my rogue. I'm not saying "wah wah I'm going to unsubscribe," I'm just very close to abandoning my warrior.

I hear rumors that they'll "take another look at our talents" soon, but if that "look" is anything like what they just did, I dread it.

[gatgat]

- Toughness (Tier 3) reduces movement impairing effect duration by 6/12/18/24/30%. (Old - 10/20/30/40/50%)

I find this extremely discouraging. This is the third protection talent that has been heavily nerfed. I never got the chance to try out the mobility that many other melee classes already have (feral druids, shadowstep rogues, swift assassination rogues with surefooted, etc.) I can't see the reasoning behind this. I don't know why we have to be the snared rooted CCed class all the time.

Prot pallies got the exact same nerf...I guess blizz decided 50% was too much

[Kristul]

- Toughness (Tier 3) reduces movement impairing effect duration by 6/12/18/24/30%. (Old - 10/20/30/40/50%)

I find this extremely discouraging. This is the third protection talent that has been heavily nerfed. I never got the chance to try out the mobility that many other melee classes already have (feral druids, shadowstep rogues, swift assassination rogues with surefooted, etc.) I can't see the reasoning behind this. I don't know why we have to be the snared rooted CCed class all the time.

Prot pallies got the exact same nerf...I guess blizz decided 50% was too much

Really? I was not aware of that.

Did Shaman "toughness" get nerfed as well?

[gatgat]

Toughness - Increases your armor value from items by 10% and reduces the duration of all movement slowing effects by 30%.


Thats the tooltip it reads for shammys, pallys and warriors

[player404]

- Safeguard (Tier 8 ) now reduces damage taken by the target of your Intervene ability by 15/30% for 6 sec

This ability now does half of what it used to. That is a very heavy-handed nerf. Warriors had to give up many other talents to get it in its previous state. Now, nobody will pick it up for PVP purposes. It seems that "protection" warriors can no longer "protect" anyone else in the battle.

I think you have been blinded by the nerf, 30% is still alot. 60% is simply insane, it's like pain supression with 30sec cooldown.

- Improved Spell Reflection (Tier 4) no longer reduces the cooldown of Spell Reflection.

This was not only another tool that made Protection viable, but it was also a part of many diverse and exciting builds that went 2-4 tiers into the protection tree. Spell reflect is a very important tool in PVP, and instead of reducing the cooldown, it now works awkwardly for nearby party members. Casters already would just moonfire or ice lance it off. Now they can just moonfire or ice lance any nearby opponent to remove the spell reflect. It's almost like they made it easier to remove it. I imagine many times people won't even notice spell reflect, it will just catch a syphon life, a fire blast, or some other nonessential spell. Then, it's cooling when you need to reflect that polymorph, cyclone, shatter/deep freeze.

First of all it also caused nearby friendly targets to reflect spells in the previous build aswell. The only change is the removal of the cooldown decrease, Which I have to agree with you that it was unessecary. It's not like we were OP with it. The -5sec cooldown was really awesome.

But I don't understand why you think that having the reflect affect nearby friendly targets is bad. You say "It's almost like they made it easier to remove it", but you forget that it reflects a spell when its removed :P. Now you imagine a situation when you see someone trying to nuke your partner. They won't notice when you use spell reflect because they are too busy with the other guy. It actually increases the chances it will reflect the big bad spells instead of the ice lances and the moonfires.

- Toughness (Tier 3) reduces movement impairing effect duration by 6/12/18/24/30%. (Old - 10/20/30/40/50%)

I find this extremely discouraging. This is the third protection talent that has been heavily nerfed. I never got the chance to try out the mobility that many other melee classes already have (feral druids, shadowstep rogues, swift assassination rogues with surefooted, etc.) I can't see the reasoning behind this. I don't know why we have to be the snared rooted CCed class all the time.

As already stated, this also affects paladins and shamans. However, it still isn't justified. In my opinion, even 50% was too low.

- Heroic Leap has been removed.

I wish they had fixed it instead of scrapping it. If they simply used the ability "blink" or "shadowstep" as a mechanical base for the ability, I think it would have been fine. Just a blink or a shadowstep that looked and sounded different would have been quite fun and useful in a large variety of situations. Change the cooldown, distance, or target vs. no target. Just don't scrap it.

Blizzard plans a comeback for it some day. Hopefully.

- Bloodthirst (Tier 7) healing reduced from 1.5% of your max health to 0.6% of your max health.

Why did you do that? These are very small amounts of health. Before the health gain was laughable (what was it, like 30 health?). It my mind, you fixed it, and then you broke it again. In what situation was this too much health?

It wasn't 30 health, it was 1.5% per hit, which was OP in my opinion. I'll explain:
You get health back every hit for 5 charges. That's a total of 7.5% health returned every 6 secs. That's really alot. It's now 3% health every 6 secs, and coupled with blood craze it's pretty decent I would say. With TG however you get much less health unfortunately, because you don't usually land 5 hits every 6 secs.

- Iron Will (Tier 2) now reduces the duration of all Stun and Charm effects used against you by 7/14/20%. (Previously 10/20/30%)

What for? cutting down a nice ability by 33% is very displeasing. What it says to me is that you want us stunned longer, and combined with the protection nerf you want us slowed longer. I want to be controlled less often, and I'd pay for it with talent points......if you'd let me.

Agreed, we need more anti-cc, not less.

All in all, you are being a wee bit too much dramatic. Relax, the trees aren't done yet. Patience my friend
We all shall soon wtfpwn everyone again.

[GrumpyJester]

I think you have been blinded by the nerf, 30% is still alot. 60% is simply insane, it's like pain supression with 30sec cooldown.

And half duration. And usable on others only. And it didn't give the 65% dispel immunity, which, combined with the other Priest abilities, is a large part what makes Pain Suppression so useful for them.

Yes it was really useful, and very powerful...but I feel it could have been balanced by nerfing other aspects of the Prot PvP Warriors. Nerfing our damage output a bit, and/or make it a 3-point talent. Now Prot is looking more and more like yet another DPS spec, and we already have two of those.

[Kristul]

I agree 100% with grumpy.

If the talent also increased the cooldown of intervene to 3 minutes, I still would have loved it: I could really make an impact every 3 minutes and save a teammate.

Instead of having the talent raise the cooldown of intervene by 600%, they just weakened the ability by 50%. It's junk now in terms of PVP. Yes, I understand hitting a tank with that in a few PVE situations is nice, but I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about finally giving warriors a way to do something besides smash n' snare. It would have opened so many doors for PVP warriors to pick vastly different builds, and defend thier teammates instead of being some big armored baby that needs to be cleansed, healed, and pampered.

Almost every class can wreak havoc when someone is healbotting them. Warriors are the only ones that require it just to function.

I'm disappointed. Very.

[player404]

All I can say is:
Dude, 30% is still alot.

[Kristul]

All I can say is:
Dude, 30% is still alot.

I agree Player. It really is. I just want you to consider what you have to lose in order to gain it.

you can barely get Mortal Strike after climbing down the prot tree to Safeguard. You have 3 talent points remainding afterwards. You can't even fill out Cruelty, which is typically a part of every single PVP and PVE warrior build.

Before they demolished Safeguard, I thought it was an awesome way to go. A strange new spec: 50% snare duration reduction, Tactical Mastery, quicker spell reflects, silences on shield bash and throw, and the ability to save a teammate.

Then, they took down the snare duration reduction, put tactical mastery in a tree that I was already headed for, removed the improved spell reflect (and made it very awkward to use), and to put the final nail in the coffin, cut Safeguard down by 50%.

Note: I'm not unhappy that Tactical Mastery is in the arms tree now. but removing it from the protection tree makes the prot tree even weaker. I had many good reasons to go prot in PVP, now I have 4 fewer than I had before. Ouch.

So Yes, it is alot. It's just not enough to go thirty-seven points into a tree that is no longer enticing to PVP players.

[Dyo]

prot for arena ... idd it will be good at 1300 bracket ...