Sub Daggers

[Zutasu]

I tried out a sub daggers spec today, and I really like it. I know, daggers work better with assassination, but I seem to be doing decent atm with daggers as sub. Right now I am, 11/0/50,
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogu...20150135201250

I tried out mut before, and it just seemed that I got kited way to easily.

For a rotation I usually do something like, premed -> Ambush-> backstab -> Ks -> Backstab until dead. Now depending on the situation, I will use what else is needed. Now, I am planning on trying out this spec with the addition of shadow dance, and I have a macro ready to do this.

Has anyone else tried sub daggers out? If so, what is your opinion on it.

[Itsuka]

You're going to love Shadow Dance once they fix the hotbar for it. You can KS your enemy, pop SD and Ambush him 3 times in a row for some wicked burst damage. I pretty much killed anyone like that when I tried this spec. However, I still like Mutilate better because it puts out much better longterm DPS (and still VERY nice burst). Backstab is kind of weak IMO and I don't like having to wait 2 minutes for SD to be ready every time I want to kill someone.. With Mutilate you can just keep going and going and although I miss the mobility Sublety offers my main is a warrior so I'm used to getting kited all the time, but own face when I finally get close

[Zutasu]

Mhm. I tried shadow dance with a macro, and it just got a bit messy. Not that I didnt like it, it just got confusing. Usually though, if I get the jump on someone I have no trouble at all staying behind them to keep using backstab.

[cerealK]

Sub daggers is really at a disadvantage without having the talent point of a level 80 player, much more so then mutilate any other normal spec option atm. If you enjoy the spec now you'll be much happier with it at 80 with lethality.
The only spec that suffers this much is prep mutilate not being able to get prep at level 70.

[Itsuka]

Mhm. I tried shadow dance with a macro, and it just got a bit messy. Not that I didnt like it, it just got confusing. Usually though, if I get the jump on someone I have no trouble at all staying behind them to keep using backstab.

Yeah that's not really the issue with it. The damage is just really weak IMO. My Mutilates are doing like 2 or 3 times as much damage as a Backstab for just a little more energy, giving me 3 combo points instead of 1 and I don't even have to worry about positioning. I think they need to buff Backstab a bit and this spec will be much more fun. I still like having to position myself for Ambush/Backstab. It requires a bit more skill than just mindless Mutilate spamming. Unfortunately simplicity is often more successful. Mutilate is the new ShS swords spec which is a shame because it was fun and unique before the patch.

[awake283]

If you have decent daggers, and are speccing ShS over 42/5/14, then I don't understand your logic.

Hemo hits like a wet noodle.

[RyRock]

Maybe because some people spec the build that's most fun, and not mathematically best.

[ant1pathy]

Maybe because some people spec the build that's most fun, and not mathematically best.

If you have fun doing less damage, killing less people, and being unable to contribute, then sure!

[Vapor]

I am pretty much that exact spec, and I was doing more damage than when I was mutilate.

as for

If you have decent daggers, and are speccing ShS over 42/5/14, then I don't understand your logic.

Hemo hits like a wet noodle.

you wouldn't ever use hemmo as this spec.

[Strykier]

Played with Shadow Dance on the PTR when the action bars were working. It was so damn sweet. Easy, quick, and humiliating 15-18k damage with those three ambushes. But until they get it to work on live, I think I'll stick with mut. (Although I'm testing combat spec out right now and it's actually pretty nice in pvp, especially if you're fighting one target...muahahaha...so much killing spree...)

[Refreshment]

If you have fun doing less damage, killing less people, and being unable to contribute, then sure!

Yes! Since it's a game, I play it for fun. If x is more fun then y, I will go with x.. Though this was kinda obvious.

[RyRock]

If you have fun doing less damage, killing less people, and being unable to contribute, then sure!

I do just fine with my build, and I get to say I'm doing it in a different way than the thousands of other people who aren't creative or skilled enough to A) Make their own build and B) Make said build work.

Sorry I don't get a boner for statistics. My boners come from killing my opponent with skill, not a cookie cut talent tree.

[ZeykShade]

I do just fine with my build, and I get to say I'm doing it in a different way than the thousands of other people who aren't creative or skilled enough to A) Make their own build and B) Make said build work.

Sorry I don't get a boner for statistics. My boners come from killing my opponent with skill, not a cookie cut talent tree.

Then you should go for the ultimate boner and spec 0/2/0 and see how well that spec does!

[RyRock]

That sounds like a bonerific time.

What should I put the 2 points in?

[Keoni]

Personally, I enjoyed the spec but for raiding it wasn't worth it.

[ZeykShade]

That sounds like a bonerific time.

What should I put the 2 points in?

DW spec of course, who needs cheap Sinister Strikes!

You could opt for gouge duration increase, but many will whine about it being OP because they can't do anything while gouged.

[Marc]

I use the following spec with merc swords and macros that switch out my main hand to merc dagger when I stealth or vanish (very easy to write). I have been having a blast in BGs and Arenas (when not bugged). The crits from ambush are amazing and switching back to swords for hemorage and/or GS has been finishing off classes that I used to have problems killing. For those armored classes, premed-ambush-hemo-KS-vanish-ambush again is even more fun. I can not imagine going full daggers with a deep sub build; the lack of damage and trying to get a backstab off would (has, tried it before the latest patch) drive me insane.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogu...21350105201000

[Righteousone]

My biggest questions for this spec is:

1. Why would you choose Vigor over Shadow Dance. Spec'd properly, Ambush + Backstab is only a total of 90 energy. You do not need the addition 10 at the beginning of the fight.

2. Why would anyone skip over Honor Among Thieves? To my knowledge, the talent is not bugged and does work for yourself. 3 points 'HAT' > 5 points 'Seal fate'