Level 80: Hit Cap

[Sakuratei]

Maybe it would be like going to Serpentshrine with +175 hit now.. would you do that? I know I wouldn't.

At the same time there was little or no Expertise or Haste on the gear available when you entered Serpentshrine Cavern.

[Fuzzyduck]

I do concede that point to you Sakuratei there was indeed a lack of both expertise and haste starting out in SSC.

With raiding as it currently is, you know it is all about finding a balance between stats to be able to do some decent dps. Its looking more and more likely that the balance of the scales is tilting heavily toward the need to gem and enchant for hit. I just hope the gear available at end game has the built in stats to restore that balance by leaning heavily toward expertise, haste, crit and AP etc.

[slue1234]

There will be alot of hit gear to get. If your worried about it just wait until the gear comes out. You have upp to now only seen a small amount of the gear that will be released. And btw just getting pvp cloak and trinket from honor is 60 or 70 hitrating alone. So no need to think you wont get enought of it. And not to mention from weapons. So you will be fine

[Fuzzyduck]

I realise we have only seen a very small selection of available gear but as a large percentage of that gear is going to be for both rogues and druids.. our gear options with rogueish stats diminish accordingly.

I do also concede the point that there are lot of people involved who are much cleverer than I am so i have faith in them getting it right. I for one am looking forward to see what they do.

[zbik]

i have 450 something hit at 80 in beta with mix of old/new gear
1 or 2 fast daggers is also still unbalanced ( will probably change to make a normal/slow main hand favorable threw poison scaling or talent changes)
one option is to use a :
Saronite Shiv
Binds when equipped
One-Hand Dagger
122 - 183 Damage Speed 1.40
(108.9 damage per second)
Requires Level 76
Equip: Improves hit rating by 55 (2.28% @ L76).
Equip: Increases your expertise rating by 20 (3.32 @ L76).
Equip: Increases attack power by 56.

this thing is crafted, quite easily as well
12 saronite bars (adamantite in bc terms, the higher of 2 base ores)
2 crystallized shadow's (basically shadow motes in bc terms found very commonly in saronite mines,not even primals,which are now called eternals)
55hit not unique, isnt gonna solve your problems forever,but to level and maybe even start to raid you'll be able to land mut/poison's

the last time i added up a naxx 10/25/badge gear set (2 weeks+ago) w/ purpose of only getting hit on everything ,there was enuf to cap after gems/enchants ,so its not out of reach ,even from the kara'esque instance to start

the general trend dosent seem to be for maxing hit at expense of everything else atm, haste, crit,exp are all in abundence all over the leather , and your crit takes huge hit by leveling, w/o gear changes you lose more then half 70 to 80 b/c of revalue'ing of crit rating ,and agility

[Bunta]

Thanks zbik.

This is what I was hoping for, and clearly I'll be able head towards Naxx with a fair amount of hit rating. It was possible to head to Kara with about a 230 rating.

I'm not going to hit the soft cap before going in, but as long as I have a fairly good rating enabling me hit and sustain my damage I'll be happy.

Thanks for the post.

[Lesane]

Were people hitcapped in Karazhan gear? No, I didn't think so. Yes, Hit is a strong dps stat, but the items in question have other stats to compensate for the lost hit, expertise and haste being examples. Reaching the hit cap doesn't magically increase your dps, it's just a limit to tell you when hit rating becomes useless.

Except the default stats on the gear are made up with a terrible DPS stat (crit rating) on a lot of pieces. I'd rather get the hit from my gear and then socket a not so terrible stat into the slots.

[wearsglasses]

Good feedback in this thread, thanks for the help.

[Mootilate]

Here's the thing...everybody is forgetting that, first of all, we still have a cape, bracers, belt, boots, 2 rings, 2 trinkets, a throwing weapon, and both melee weapons that will most likely have hit on them...you can even replace one or more of the pieces in the set with something that has hit rating if you prefer to do that. Most of the non-set naxx gear has more hit and AP on it anyways.

For example, here are a different set of hands than in the set. In my opinion they are much, much better than the naxx 25 set gloves - http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...handguards.jpg

The next thing to remember is that this is only T7 loot... T7 = T4 in bc terms...so we still have at least two more tiers to go and imagine how buffed the stats are going to get on those new sets.

All of this + gems and enchants isn't going to leave us at a major shortage of hit rating. The thing that I'm really happy about, is that blizz is actually giving us some choice on what we want to do with our gear. All this +haste and +expertise on the gear and gems really gives us some options on what we want to do. Also the +crit isn't such a horrible thing either. On live, my t4 rogue only has about 24% crit so getting above that is looking pretty good in my eyes.

[fizyx]

Except the default stats on the gear are made up with a terrible DPS stat (crit rating) on a lot of pieces. I'd rather get the hit from my gear and then socket a not so terrible stat into the slots.

You're forgeting that combat now has a talent that greatly increases the effect of crit rating. The bonus damage means for a combat rogue, 1 crit>1% dps increase now, and as you near the hit cap, it becomes even more worthwhile. With a boomkin in the raid, the hit cap drops even lower, and at a certain point you hit some pretty massive diminishing returns. Combat potency is important, but near the hit cap, hits not going to affect you as much, and other stats start having a much larger impact.

[zbik]

With a boomkin in the raid, the hit cap drops even lower, and at a certain point you hit some pretty massive diminishing returns. Combat potency is important, but near the hit cap, hits not going to affect you as much, and other stats start having a much larger impact.

they changed improved farie fire to no longer add melee hit =(

[crocky]

they changed improved farie fire to no longer add melee hit =(

hmm thats bad...

[MasterDinadan]

The hit obsession has to stop!

Pre-3.0, hit rating was a strong stat. The hit rating was often good to aim for because you could easily get there without giving up many other DPS stats. If you weren't well geared, you don't push for the hit cap because doing so usually involves giving up so many other stats.

As for the comment about going into SSC with 175 hit rating, honestly I don't see the problem if the attack power and crit rating is high enough to make up for it. There is no "magic number" for hit. The hit cap is a LIMIT on how much hit is useful, it is not a GOAL to reach for.

Now, after 3.0, hit has actually become weaker. Agility and crit are more valuable relatively, once you've past the poison hit cap. Hit doesn't become useless after the poison hit cap, but it's value is weak enough that you shouldn't be gemming specifically for it and instead you should focus on gemming agility. The hit cap at 80 is really high. This just means you don't have to worry about passing it. You don't have to make a choice about which pieces you get hit from and worry about passing the cap by taking the wrong combination of items. You just take whatever items have the best stats, without obsessing about hit.

[Facktotum]

The hit obsession has to stop!

Pre-3.0, hit rating was a strong stat. The hit rating was often good to aim for because you could easily get there without giving up many other DPS stats. If you weren't well geared, you don't push for the hit cap because doing so usually involves giving up so many other stats.

As for the comment about going into SSC with 175 hit rating, honestly I don't see the problem if the attack power and crit rating is high enough to make up for it. There is no "magic number" for hit. The hit cap is a LIMIT on how much hit is useful, it is not a GOAL to reach for.

Now, after 3.0, hit has actually become weaker. Agility and crit are more valuable relatively, once you've past the poison hit cap. Hit doesn't become useless after the poison hit cap, but it's value is weak enough that you shouldn't be gemming specifically for it and instead you should focus on gemming agility. The hit cap at 80 is really high. This just means you don't have to worry about passing it. You don't have to make a choice about which pieces you get hit from and worry about passing the cap by taking the wrong combination of items. You just take whatever items have the best stats, without obsessing about hit.

What he said

Rogues that keep insisting hit is the stat that improves our dps are totally way off in Wotlk. Agility,AP and Crit are the most important stats to look for when choosing your gear in Wotlk.

[Jyagan]

I plan on giving Combat spec a try in WOTLK lv80 raids (5/51/5), even if everyone is saying Mutilate is better. The problem is that I am torn between 2 theories and maybe some of you could help... (please keep in mind I am referring to combat spec here)

Theory 1: I must try to reach the highest hit possible, which would be a maximum (not attainable for the moment I'm fairly sure) of 755.
Less miss = More combat potency proc = More DPS.

VS

Theory 2: I'm aiming for a soft hit cap ( 151 I believe for poison hit cap - correct me please if I'm wrong) and stacking Agi after that point, because Agi is now worth more than Hit now, point for point.
More miss but total DPS better because more Agi.

Of course, the best way to optimize DPS might just be a bit of the 2 theories... what's your thoughts ?

[d8abyte]

Number crunching is not really my thing, but I just want to point out that TG penalty has been reduced to 5% now. That should change some of your figures on this particular case.

[jizzyburnizzy]

Number crunching is not really my thing, but I just want to point out that TG penalty has been reduced to 5% now. That should change some of your figures on this particular case.

TG is a warrior talent. this would be the rogue forum...

[zbik]

around 752,with 5precision to never miss white attacks at 80
mut being king atm though ,youll want 12%+ 5 in precision to never get resiested on your poisons, thats gonna be around 393

been few weeks, 393 relates to melee hit not spell hit, and spell hit is the number you want to prevent your poisons missing
80 melee hit is 32.8 per 1%
80 spell hit is 26.2 per 1%

that changes the basic minimum hit (With precision 5/5)you want to retain to around 320 not 393, and 3% in raids is another 78 off the 320, making it a generally trivial number around 242

[heeps]

With the new talents, hit is a lower DPS stat than crit, attack power, agility, and expertise.