Hey, ret pally's.

[Cronk]

The time of the new (useful) Retpally has come!

[sapiokwlhs]

Good god, you people will jump on anything. Do I need to post a mile long list of various figures in wow lore that are excellent combatants that aren't paladins? Why do you even care? It's not exactly a big deal unless you're trying to provide some sort of reasoning as to why the class should be overpowered.

hey trolly go play in another cave!no little brainless kids allowed here!

[sapiokwlhs]

Whenever I fight in PvP against a Ret Paladin I just /lol and walk away from them since they can't stop me anyways.

whats your class naby?

[sapiokwlhs]

I'm going to put this out as simply as I can. Why are Ret OP? It's not because their base damage is ridiculously high. It's higher than pretty much everyone else, but not that much higher. The problem lies in melee design.

All melee (other than ret & the new DKs) primarily use physical damage. The new ret has all the advantages of mana (being able to frontload all your damage, don't have to build up rage) with none of the disadvantages(new mana pool is infinite). The real deal-breaker though is that most of their damage is now spell damage, which goes straight through armor.

On a target with 0 armor, a TG fury warrior with the best gear in the game actually does damage almost comparative to the ret pally. The thing is, to get there you have to fully sunder and use some ArP on a low armor target (priest, for example). A ret pally gets the same kind of insane damage with no preparation, on any PVP target.

Basically, MS + new ret pally = unhealable.

NOOOOO MOAAAAAAAR QQ!we ll drown in a lake of tears!ret is allready WAY to nerfed!so STFU plz!ty bb kk thx

[wemwarven]

I think retribution deserves to be overpowered for at least a little while...

[Mysmere]

enhancement used to blitz people instantly (or at least clothies)

and a good pally can time his freedoms to break every rogues stun, you just have to repent or stun or move your 15% faster away from them for 5 seconds (or 2 or w/e, anyway, you break it quite a bit early)

against mages, just stack magics, i've gotten 7 magics on myself easy, one of them almost undispellable, which is sexy.

droods can kite, but only with cyclone. right as they roots cleanse all their crap and you're clean for instant remove. feral droods seem like a close fight right now..

shammies have major problems against us =/ i dont reallycount armor as a mitigator anymore, the most mitigation seems to come from rng such as dodge (or bear armor?+dodge wtf) shammies can't kite a dedicated cleanser.

hunters with trap spam are annoying.. especially if they bother to drop the slowing one, freedom doesn't last like it used to =/

some of you resto fools forget you'll havve just as much spell power as any caster now. especially resto shammy v ele shammy where you get extra spell power from talents.

i'd also liek to note you should all spend some time looking through sapiokwlhs sig war tools. good deal. do it.

[ionpath]

Delicious popcorn om nom nom nom

[Bainz]

Good god, you people will jump on anything. Do I need to post a mile long list of various figures in wow lore that are excellent combatants that aren't paladins? Why do you even care? It's not exactly a big deal unless you're trying to provide some sort of reasoning as to why the class should be overpowered.

'WHAT ARE YOU, LORE BOAR??!?!'

[GuuD]

Hello.
My main char on live is retribution paladin and i think i'm pretty ok in playing it.
I tried dueling on US beta with some really skilled players and that's what i got:
Warrior - they stand no chance.
Rogue - 2 rogues managed to win, but it's EXACTLY same situation as on live, but we just swapped places. Rogue still has no problems in kiting us to death, but it's retarded way of dueling. When both classes actually try to kill each other withot eating 10-100% in stealth for five times, ret paladin wins.
Death Knight - equal chances against good DK, you are really forced into early bubble.
Now the more interesting duels:
Mage - great mage just teared me apart as much times as he wanted. I couldnt do shit. Just running away burning my CDs, then poly, shatter, hai
Warlock - meta lock can easily kill us if we are not wearing glyph of turn evil. Curse damage is retarded, pet getting zero damage from Divine Storms lives long enough to make us burn CDs.
Hunter - good ones can kill me with no problem, we are still vulnurable to kiting.
All duels vs ranged classes were starting from 40y range.

[Happy Jedi]

My love for Shamans dropped out in the removal of original wf totem ;D
I have to rebuild it

p.s.: don't forget the fact that this game isn't balanced for 1V1 / nVn

[Val3rim]

its fun to see all QQ from other classes, of wich i wonder from: did they ever play a paladin

do you know how frustrating it is in arena wether you are holy, prot, ret
to see classes able to reset the game after you blown your CDs and just wait till your shield goes down or just even dispell it LAWL, EASY LIKE THAT!

take for example mage - rogue team:
rogue saps my team mate, is able to jump on me stun, at that point listen VERY CAREFULL mage is able to make me bubble in 3 casts with a rogue kidney shotting me so i bubble mage runs away leaving my partner sheeped , rogue vanishes
GAME RESET and i just blow a trinket and bubble of 5 min CD and forbeance on my ass. you can guess what happens when shield goes down, do you

same goes for druid rogues: cyclone me and root my partner, re -stealth Game Reset

those combos are ussually top of the ladder

the reason why you hardly see any spec of paladin in 3 vs 3 or 2 vs 2
is because paladin is the most vurnable to CC, and we are the weakest link

the burst damage is their to give the paladin a chance to be able to kill a target before he gets CCed to eternity, if the target survives its game over for him

how many times my spells get interrupted, spellstolen, purged dispelled, eaten

the instant flash heals the retri paladin receives is just to survive longer than the normal initial 30 secs zerg-the-paladin-time.


im happy with the changes, and im happy to see all the QQ as well that shows that people finally need to start paying more attention to this spec to avoid a 2hander getting planted in their faces.
no more: /point /rofl at a ret paladin trying to kill the mage for 1 min now because mage is cleary playing with him.

[Snix]

I would really enjoy all those recriminations and must admit, that at some point I have literally lost the thread as to what - in this very context - is QQ. I really would if it wasn't for all those bad memories that come up with it. Like everyone playing a druid atm and failing. I cannot believe why any class would want that.

do you know how frustrating it is in arena wether you are holy, prot, ret
[..]
the burst damage is their to give the paladin a chance to be able to kill a target[..]

Guess what I am not going to say

[Viser]

I do love how Tigercat has managed to hijack this thread though.

Retribution is getting its Vengeance on all those who tried to pass Judgement on the class with so much Vindication in their Hearts of the Crusader. Why don't you let us have our Divine Purpose and unleash our Righteous Vengeance in a Divine Storm upon you? Afraid that we might get so caught up in our Crusade that our Benediction will subside to raw anger and Fanaticism?

I honestly think you're just an ignorant sod so unfamiliar with The Art of War that you cry wolf against our Sanctified Wrath and Swift Retribution. So I urge you to take back your original conceptions and come back with Judgements of the Wise so you can more clearly see our side of things... maybe then you will not fear our Crusader Strike or our keen belief in Eye for an Eye tactics. Then again, maybe you will realize our Vindication has finally come and we are the class we were meant to be four long years ago.

/thread

[Elektrik]

I play a ret pally in Beta. I play a ret pally on the PTR. I play a ret pally on live.

I will not be playing a ret pally in WotLK because it is SUPER GAY to play a class THAT OP. Nobody wants to fight you, because you will kill them before they have a chance to move. If you attack someone in a BG, they don't fight back because there is no way they are going to kill you.

No single class should have 1 counter, while easily destroying every other class. Our ONE counter is a mage. Sure, people can trinket out of it, but in case you didn't realize, the trinket CD is longer than the HoJ cooldown.

I have been through a lot with my Pally, and it will be painful to lose all that rep and those old achievements, but it is seriously just not even fun.

Playing a Pally at 70 (and yes, 80 too) is like being the big bully in highschool that starts fights with 8 year olds. My favorite part of this game is killing someone in PvP and doing something game breaking in that fight. I like to make the person think "Wow, he really knows what he's doing". There is absolutely no sense of that right now playing a pally, and unless they are toned WAY down in PvP, they will be overpopulated with children who think they are big and bad because they stomped the hell out of an ant.

[Arekhon]

...., palladin is support character in my eyes and this dont seems right tho ???

There are no more Support-Classes in WoW. At least when WotLK ist out this will be a thing of the past. To quote one of the Developers (Ghostcrawler) from Beta:

"Ret should be as close to the top as anyone else. Our buckets at this point are basically DPS, Tanks, Healers. When the tank and healer are doing dps, it's even closer.

You may be a couple hundred dps lower than a pure dps class (hunter, mage, warlock, rogue) but for most players, the numbers will be close enough that a raid with a good Retadin and an okay rogue will see Ret on top.

This is a change in philosophy from the BC era, where we would engineer hybrid classes to be 25% to 30% and sometimes much lower than dps classes."

Therefore a Rets DPS will stay approximately where it is now. You all have to burry your oldschool ways of thinking - Blizzard has already done that, you are kicking a dead corpse when discussing this.

No single class should have 1 counter, while easily destroying every other class. Our ONE counter is a mage.

Simply not true and overblown. Mages destroy us easily, yes. But warlocks, hunters, rogues, moonkins, elemental shamans also have good to equal chances in beating retribution paladins if they know how to kite.
We probably destroy warriors and enhancement shamans. Most healers will last a while against us if they survive the first burst, which they will once most players have reached level 80 and when resilience is fixed.

[ShinKosh]

You all have to burry your oldschool ways of thinking

NOES!!!!!!!111!

WHEN I RAIDED MC PALA WAS HEALZ ,NO DPS

You know the QQ will be strong when the Epeen Jockies otherwise known as Rogues start to come second to Paladins now that is is more than just "My class is designed to go pewpew".

I can't wait. I have the Chalice of Tears ready for them.

[Newor]

Why? It's fun getting you folks riled up, even better when it's done with the truth instead of via being inflammatory.



And since I can never post in this thread without being told a new post has been made, I'll address Moar Pew Pew as well:

Boomkins do have some pretty strong burst, yes, but as you've said they do have some gaps in survability. Mages can do a lot of damage as well, but again they are limited in their survivability. Paladins can bubble, or basically Shield Wall, or if facing melee HoP, and can instant-FoL themselves anytime they feel like it. The dps alone is not the problem, let me make that clear. If ret is supposed to have the highest burst that's fine. The problem is all the survivability they have while using that burst.


And now 2 new posts, ok.... Biral:

I see what you did there. Nice.

Dire:

What level are you? What server?

Sigh, another from Moar:

I'm a lore fan too. The Paladins that are shown to be so powerful in the lore act nothing like the paladins of wow. They're closer to the holy warrior style of fighting that I think the class should be built around.

And edit: holy crap, the post actually went through that time!

"I want my free honor kills back! snif! buaaaaaa"

QQ

[cifer33]

"I want my free honor kills back! snif! buaaaaaa"

QQ

It would be better if ret is freekill for everyone then everyone is freekill for ret.

(of course ret shouldnt be freekill, nor should they be OP)

[LordSidious]

yep i read bout that blizzard changed way of thinking bout all classes and they want(or atleast they r trying) to somehow make all dpsers to be somwhere at 2000 dps or something like that and i agree with that, ofc that is for pve and this changes made pally realy something else for pvp and that was done with many classes, ofc i myself was whining about realy weak ret in tbc and was forced to be healbotbut this is something else maybe its only me but i dont find theese changes that hot as many players do, but its realy soon for complaints so i will wait and ill see but im afraid...

Longest sentence I have ever seen.

[Adamson]

yep i read bout that blizzard changed way of thinking bout all classes and they want(or atleast they r trying) to somehow make all dpsers to be somwhere at 2000 dps or something like that and i agree with that,

I can do 2000dps now.

Usually 1600 or so on average, but 2000 is doable on fights like gorefiend or Najentus.

Blizzard isn't picking a dps number and aiming to make all dps'ers about that. There's so many variables to that clause it's not even funny.