Hey, ret pally's.

[Tigercat]

tiger cat go qq in the warrior forums, and as for pally's being op, yea maybe a litle but every class is in some way or another. besides blizz has been making sure that for thepast month or so to balance us we have gotton alot of spell and skill balances and still you are all qq'ing about us (well some anyway) seriously ret has never been good now it's not op as much as usefull and people are complaining, learn to kill us and you will it's doable.

Still waiting for some actual proof here. All I'm getting from you folks is a bunch of talk.

Put up or shut up.

[Offhand]

All i can really say is that I've rolled a pally and a rogue and that both classes have been in the shitter at some point in this game. I know y'all hate rogues, but statistically speaking rogues were OP for 1 season, s3, and that was the fault of a bugged ability, we didn't cause that. Druids, warriors and locks have all had at least as much time as the "OP" class but I digress. I know rogues make noobs into grease spots in AV and that's where your opinion comes from.

Come Wrath if I end up spec'ing ret for arena in you hate me then too, not my problem. Blizz balances this game not me.

[Blike07]

As many of u have allready said what ppl don't seem to realize is that tons of ppl see the ptr and think ret are op without seeing data of beta.
When this patch releases I am sure that ret among some other classes will be op and personally I will enjoy the brief stint but that isn't the big picture here.
Blizz doesn't want to and shouldn't focus on this short period of time between the patch being released and wotlk coming out. They are more focused on the future of the game being equal than what happens for a month. Right now ret is doing very acceptable and reasonable damage in beta and that is what they are concerned with.
Who cares if ret is op at lvl 70 what does that mean all pallies will level ret now instead of prot big deal go cry about it cause at level 80 that doesn't mean crap and Blizzard knows it. The fact is for what is planned to be the future of the game ret paladins are not op but finally to a point where they will be not just accepted but wanted in raids and instancing.
You tell em Basutai and let me know bout the play at 80 if u get a key cuz I have stuck with retadin for a long time and I want to hear more than numbers on the future of them.

[Tigercat]

soon as i get a beta key, and as soon as i see YOUR PROOF.

and stop being so sour, theres no need to make a public ass of yourself over a game...though it is mildly entertaining.

Edit: wow, almost 5 minutes and im still waiting for a cheesy, outdated imageshack link from 3 patches ago

Sorry, didn't exactly screenshot or fraps the wintergrasp battles I was in earlier today. I don't care what the other people here think, nor do I really care what you think. I want some sort of proof, anything, that demonstrates that other classes can destroy each other as easily as ret currently does.

[Tigercat]

Thrall? Garona? Rexxar? Jarod Shadowsong? Malfurion? Jaina Proudmoore? I think you get the drift by now, saying the great fighters are paladins just doesn't quite make sense >.>

[Moar Pew Pew]

I suggest you stop trying to use little things like logic and reason with Tigercat, because, while most human beings are universaly bound to at least somewhat make an arguement that makes sense, he seems to not be bound by our mortal code of ethics.

On a serious note, Tigercat, all your arguement consists of is, "Refute this or I'm right!" Mostly all of the beta forums are saying that Ret is a fairly balanced spec, so put some weight behind your words.

[Offhand]

Sorry, didn't exactly screenshot or fraps the wintergrasp battles I was in earlier today. I don't care what the other people here think, nor do I really care what you think. I want some sort of proof, anything, that demonstrates that other classes can destroy each other as easily as ret currently does.

I think this is the polite way of saying "LA LA LA LA I'M NOT LISTENING!!!"

[Tigercat]

I suggest you stop trying to use little things like logic and reason with Tigercat, because, while most human beings are universaly bound to at least somewhat make an arguement that makes sense, he seems to not be bound by our mortal code of ethics.

On a serious note, Tigercat, all your arguement consists of is, "Refute this or I'm right!" Mostly all the beta forums are saying that Ret is a fairly balanced spec, so put some weight behind your words.

Since when? They're pretty much aknowledged as having some of the best survivability, overall utility, and most importantly burst damage in pvp right now. I'm actually pretty well ground in logic, but so far all I'm seeing is people that aren't in the beta saying paladins at 80 are fine in pvp. Doesn't seem very logical to me.

[Biral]

Thrall? Garona? Rexxar? Jarod Shadowsong? Malfurion? Jaina Proudmoore? I think you get the drift by now, saying the great fighters are paladins just doesn't quite make sense >.>

lawl, too easy:

Arthas Menethil, Uther the Lightbringer, Tirion Fordring, Saidan Dathrohan, Turalyon, Gavinrad the Dire, Lady Liadrin...

For extensive lists, please see:
http://www.wowwiki.com/List_of_Knigh..._Hand_paladins
http://www.wowwiki.com/Hand_of_Argus
http://www.wowwiki.com/List_of_Blood_Knight_paladins
http://www.wowwiki.com/List_of_Aldor_paladins
http://www.wowwiki.com/List_of_Argent_Crusade_paladins
http://www.wowwiki.com/List_of_Argent_Dawn_paladins
http://www.wowwiki.com/List_of_Scarlet_Crusade_paladins
http://www.wowwiki.com/List_of_Scarl...aught_paladins
http://www.wowwiki.com/List_of_Shatt...nsive_paladins
http://www.wowwiki.com/List_of_Sha'tar_paladins
http://www.wowwiki.com/List_of_unaffiliated_paladins

[Tigercat]

like rogues?

like mages?
(these are not biased against paladin, these were putting out hefty burst on my shaman as well as several ventcamping beta buddies.)

like the plentiful number of duels i lose on ptr whenever the other class is skilled/intelligent enough to control me?

fear
slows and good running technique
stuns
gouges

I can lose to anyone that has the brain to do those, unless i blow CDs on them to win, or if luck favors me over them.

any class played by someone intelligent enough to time their stuns, fears, and slows so that i can't hof out of them.

warriors that hamstring, run, and force me to hof, then intercept so my divine purpose has already been blown for another 12 sec from the spamstring (though theyre all too stupid to try that so far)

mages that force hof and maybe even trinket, then run till its off and restart kiting.

warlocks' fear. can't break that shy of trinket/bubble.

rogues' stunlock, if they can time their longer ones for right after hof. rogues that are smart enough to pop vanish and re-cheapshot.

hunters smart enough at jumpshotting to keep their distance (easier with instant aimed shit)


that is a cold, hard fact.

any pvp'er worth their salt would have already realized that blizzard had 2 choices...make ret night unkitable/otherwise unable to be controlled, or make them burst kings. any pvp'er worth their salt would have already recognized that they chose the latter.

There are plenty of ways to destroy ret. you just seem more intent on blindly flaming people and the class than you do on figuring out how you can with your endgame toons.

and i'll be blunt. i dont give a flying fuck about your opinion either.

I enjoy how half of your arguements rely on waiting for hand of freedom to run out. What happens when you're already in melee range of your target and you put HoF up? You're going to kill that target most likely before it drops.

As for the bolded segment, again, since when? It's pretty widely aknowledged right now that ret has the highest burst in pvp. I asked you a question with no correct answer, and your attempt to actually answer it only further proves your ignorance.

Still waiting for some sort of actual evidence that ret isn't overpowered in pvp, as is the general sentiment among people that actually pvp on the beta right now.

[Tigercat]

lawl, too easy:

Arthas Menethil, Uther the Lightbringer, Tirion Fordring, Saidan Dathrohan, Turalyon, Gavinrad the Dire, Lady Liadrin...

For extensive lists, please see:
http://www.wowwiki.com/List_of_Knigh..._Hand_paladins
http://www.wowwiki.com/Hand_of_Argus
http://www.wowwiki.com/List_of_Blood_Knight_paladins
http://www.wowwiki.com/List_of_Aldor_paladins
http://www.wowwiki.com/List_of_Argent_Crusade_paladins
http://www.wowwiki.com/List_of_Argent_Dawn_paladins
http://www.wowwiki.com/List_of_Scarlet_Crusade_paladins
http://www.wowwiki.com/List_of_Scarl...aught_paladins
http://www.wowwiki.com/List_of_Shatt...nsive_paladins
http://www.wowwiki.com/List_of_Sha'tar_paladins
http://www.wowwiki.com/List_of_unaffiliated_paladins

Good god, you people will jump on anything. Do I need to post a mile long list of various figures in wow lore that are excellent combatants that aren't paladins? Why do you even care? It's not exactly a big deal unless you're trying to provide some sort of reasoning as to why the class should be overpowered.

[Offhand]

Tiger, maybe you should pay a some attention to you're own little sig and STFU?

[Moar Pew Pew]

Since when? They're pretty much aknowledged as having some of the best survivability, overall utility, and most importantly burst damage in pvp right now. I'm actually pretty well ground in logic, but so far all I'm seeing is people that aren't in the beta saying paladins at 80 are fine in pvp. Doesn't seem very logical to me.

Compared to many other classes, our burst damage at 80 isn't as terrifying as it's made out to be. Mages hit like a truck, Boomkins (while still lacking in survivability) hurt like hell, too. We have our Survivability, which isnt even the best out of all the classes, and we have much less PvP utility than most "pure" dps classes. We aren't monsters of all trades in PvP, we do each roll fairly well. Really, taking 3 people to take down one Paladin really means he probably busted every cooldown he had and that's not terribly impressive for any class. (Note that he probably would have died even with all cooldowns against two targets.)

[Biral]

Since when? They're pretty much aknowledged as having some of the best survivability, overall utility, and most importantly burst damage in pvp right now. I'm actually pretty well ground in logic, but so far all I'm seeing is people that aren't in the beta saying paladins at 80 are fine in pvp. Doesn't seem very logical to me.

I do love how Tigercat has managed to hijack this thread though.

Retribution is getting its Vengeance on all those who tried to pass Judgement on the class with so much Vindication in their Hearts of the Crusader. Why don't you let us have our Divine Purpose and unleash our Righteous Vengeance in a Divine Storm upon you? Afraid that we might get so caught up in our Crusade that our Benediction will subside to raw anger and Fanaticism?

I honestly think you're just an ignorant sod so unfamiliar with The Art of War that you cry wolf against our Sanctified Wrath and Swift Retribution. So I urge you to take back your original conceptions and come back with Judgements of the Wise so you can more clearly see our side of things... maybe then you will not fear our Crusader Strike or our keen belief in Eye for an Eye tactics. Then again, maybe you will realize our Vindication has finally come and we are the class we were meant to be four long years ago.

[Direknyte]

Anyone else think Tiger needs to read his own sig? I find it amusing considering the content of his posts in this thread.

I play a Paladin among others, and yes, I am in beta.

[Moar Pew Pew]

Good god, you people will jump on anything. Do I need to post a mile long list of various figures in wow lore that are excellent combatants that aren't paladins? Why do you even care? It's not exactly a big deal unless you're trying to provide some sort of reasoning as to why the class should be overpowered.

I believe the point most lore fans try to make is that Paladins are meant to be an organized and powerful order. Yes, there are a lot of randoms with equal or greater power, but, Paladins represent a high precentage of that group simply by shear numbers.

[Tigercat]

Why?  It's fun getting you folks riled up, even better when it's done with the truth instead of via being inflammatory.



And since I can never post in this thread without being told a new post has been made, I'll address Moar Pew Pew as well:

Boomkins do have some pretty strong burst, yes, but as you've said they do have some gaps in survability.  Mages can do a lot of damage as well, but again they are limited in their survivability.  Paladins can bubble, or basically Shield Wall, or if facing melee HoP, and can instant-FoL themselves anytime they feel like it.  The dps alone is not the problem, let me make that clear.  If ret is supposed to have the highest burst that's fine.  The problem is all the survivability they have while using that burst.


And now 2 new posts, ok....  Biral:

I see what you did there.  Nice.

Dire:

What level are you?  What server?

Sigh, another from Moar:

I'm a lore fan too.  The Paladins that are shown to be so powerful in the lore act nothing like the paladins of wow.  They're closer to the holy warrior style of fighting that I think the class should be built around.

And edit: holy crap, the post actually went through that time!

[Moar Pew Pew]

Boomkins do have some pretty strong burst, yes, but as you've said they do have some gaps in survability. Mages can do a lot of damage as well, but again they are limited in their survivability. Paladins can bubble, or basically Shield Wall, or if facing melee HoP, and can instant-FoL themselves anytime they feel like it. The dps alone is not the problem, let me make that clear. If ret is supposed to have the highest burst that's fine. The problem is all the survivability they have while using that burst.

Arcane Mages have a lot of survivability against melee, which is their main problem. Also, every ability you just mentioned shares a 3 minute cooldown on the Paladin himself regardless of any spec because of Forbearance. Divine Protection (our shield wall) is useless for all but flag capping.

About FoL, at absolute retarded maximum, we can get 4 instant FoL casts off in 10 seconds. Most likely it will be two, though. So it's not really "whenever we want".


About the lore stuff, MMOs have to screw with lore all the time, but, the guidelines of Paladins still stand. An organized and dedicated order devoted to fighting evil. I don't actually give a crap about any of this, though.

[Nookius]

I do love how Tigercat has managed to hijack this thread though.

Retribution is getting its Vengeance on all those who tried to pass Judgement on the class with so much Vindication in their Hearts of the Crusader. Why don't you let us have our Divine Purpose and unleash our Righteous Vengeance in a Divine Storm upon you? Afraid that we might get so caught up in our Crusade that our Benediction will subside to raw anger and Fanaticism?

I honestly think you're just an ignorant sod so unfamiliar with The Art of War that you cry wolf against our Sanctified Wrath and Swift Retribution. So I urge you to take back your original conceptions and come back with Judgements of the Wise so you can more clearly see our side of things... maybe then you will not fear our Crusader Strike or our keen belief in Eye for an Eye tactics. Then again, maybe you will realize our Vindication has finally come and we are the class we were meant to be four long years ago.

best post ever. lol.

[smartAXE]

i would have been satisfied with a simple LoL and nothing else as the OP