New paladin changes newest build....

[Marudas]

Hurray for Excessive Holy Paladin Nerfing!

I mean, as Ghostcrawler posts repeatedly, Holy Paladins were the best healers in TBC Amirite?

Really though, I don't care that much about the nerf to divine plea. I already can't see myself relying on that ability for any type of PvE healing, since I got along just fine without it before. But slashing Infusion of Light? Because Holy paladins were already so incredibly effective in PvP....

Oh, Right,i forgot, our haste buff. It lasts a minute now- Too bad Judgments last 20 seconds, so greater uptime on the haste buff is sort of a side-buff.

[pallyzzpower]

In PvE, i dont understand how that helps ret pallies ... in-combat, we cant afford t o sit there for 15 secs, and out of combat we might as well be drinking. someone clarify cuz i dont know much and may be making a fool of myself .

[Mysmere]

pillar + regen, yes? mass skill required of course.

[Trylan]

This has to be the most useless change ever. Some classes insist on JoW being on the boss all the time so you gotta refresh it every 20 sec anyway now that there is no way to permanently keep it up. It's just a pathetic attempt to make up for nerfing nearly everything that was added in WoTLK for holy paladins.

...And that's why you should bring a retridin to your raid ^^

[Totschlager]

In PvE, i dont understand how that helps ret pallies ... in-combat, we cant afford t o sit there for 15 secs, and out of combat we might as well be drinking. someone clarify cuz i dont know much and may be making a fool of myself .

Cuz, y'know, ret pallies use nothing but healing spells during boss fights...

The Divine Plea nerf doesn't effect damage dealing effects. L2read.

[mdss]

And I think you dont know how the new judgement mechanic works...

The new judgement mechanic is actually irrelevant for the JotP change. It's more or less useless with both systems.

...And that's why you should bring a retridin to your raid ^^

vv

Retribution

* Crusader Strike (Tier 9) does not refresh judgements anymore.

now that there is no way to permanently keep it up

Do the math.

[AariKanes]

Well. I think I'm about ready to stick a fork in my paladin. What the hell what Blizzard thinking? Seriously? I'm not one to bitch about little nerfs, but this is just stupid.

Reason for going OOM: Party and/or tank is taking a lot of damage

Solution: An innervate-like ability to help cope. Let's add a healing debuff to even it out.

Okay. Then, all the sudden..

'No, better yet, let's make sure they can't heal the party AT ALL.' Yay logic. \o/ ???

Infusion of Light was *awesome*. It really gave us the mobility we needed in PvP. Now we're fodder for counter spells again, fun times. Smarter idea: Infusion of Light reduces the cast time of holy light by 2.5s, this cannot accure more than once every 20 seconds, or something. a 1.5 second cast is easily interruptable, even a 1s(with light's grace) is. Sigh :-\

[Ceramic]

This has to be the most useless change ever. Some classes insist on JoW being on the boss all the time so you gotta refresh it every 20 sec anyway now that there is no way to permanently keep it up. It's just a pathetic attempt to make up for nerfing nearly everything that was added in WoTLK for holy paladins.

Hit the nail on the head. JotP is a pretty bad teir 10 talent honestly =\.

[Trylan]

vv

Retribution

* Crusader Strike (Tier 9) does not refresh judgements anymore.

now that there is no way to permanently keep it up

Do the math.

Ret damage rotation includes Judgement, so you'll be casting it every 8-10 seconds anyway, therefore keeping it up on the target permanently

[Xephan]

I can understand them not wanting to give cookie-cutter abilities to every single class and that Divine Plea is a sort of half-assed answer to innervate. As ret, I see no problems with the ability and it was probably intended more to be an ability similar to Shamanistic Rage to help with Ret mana issues.

However, from the standpoint of a Holy Paladin, I can't see why they had to make a self-inflicted MS on your entire party/raid go all the way to 100% from 50%. If anything, the ability should go back to 50%, or if Blizzard wants to be really nice they could have the debuff make it so that your heals only have 50% or 100% reduced healing on yourself. That would give it both PvE utility and a balance in PvP.

Still, as Ret I won't really care. I'll be damned if I'm caught casting a heal other than an instant FoL.

[Praye]

The change to Judgments of the Wise was needed and I think most of us saw it coming.

But why is everyone saying Divine Plea is for Ret? With Judgments of the Wise, I don't see Ret having any real mana problems. If anything, I would say Divine Plea is best for Prot Pallies. If there are not enough parries or dodges to proc sufficient mana from Blessing of Sanctuary, then Prot will need this ability more than Ret. This is especially needed by prot pallies when soloing or when tanking just one mob at a time.

Either way, Divine Plea is now pretty much useless for Holy.

And I can't believe they gutted infusion of light. It was one of only two new talents Holy was getting that actually helps Pally healing. Didn't see that coming.

[Xephan]

The change to Judgments of the Wise was needed and I think most of us saw it coming.

But why is everyone saying Divine Plea is for Ret? With Judgments of the Wise, I don't see Ret having any real mana problems. If anything, I would say Divine Plea is best for Prot Pallies. If there are not enough parries or dodges to proc sufficient mana from Blessing of Sanctuary, then Prot will need this ability more than Ret. This is especially needed by prot pallies when soloing or when tanking just one mob at a time.

Either way, Divine Plea is now pretty much useless for Holy.

And I can't believe they gutted infusion of light. It was one of only two new talents Holy was getting that actually helps Pally healing. Didn't see that coming.

Probably because Prot never really had mana problems. Even in Warrior tanking gear that I wore solely for the mitigation and stamina, I never had any mana issues thanks to Spiritual Attunement.

However, if you are overgeared for something, you end up having to take your pants off so that you can take enough damage to warrant getting a heal every now and then... I seem to remember rage starved warriors having to deal with the same issue.

[mdss]

Ret damage rotation includes Judgement, so you'll be casting it every 8-10 seconds anyway, therefore keeping it up on the target permanently

Ok that was a bit thoughtless, I failed here. But that doesnt change the fact that the buff is pretty weak compared to the Infusion / Plea nerf.

[solaste]

Agreed this talent needs to be completely redone.

[Carsomyrr]

If Blizzard's intent is to kill us, it better be death by snoo-snoo.

[Keile]

*directs all holy paladins over to the shaman board*

Seriously..

Riptide...

[ionpath]

Just lol @ new Divine Plea.

Totally retarted nerf that made me nerd rage.
So now it's pretty useless for anyone anywhere.
Ret pala? *EEEEK* Wrong answer for the sole reason : JotW>>>Divine Plea
33% of base vs 25% total
Retribution gear doesnt have any intellect so base=total for ret. Then it's simple math 33>25. Also over 15 seconds (what a joke) and 1 minute cooldown vs the 8 of JotW
Protection paladin? *EEEEK* Yeah cause prot has a lot of mana issues with the new BoSanc and spi.attunement. Useless
Holy Paladin? *BOOM HEADSHOT* Right, instead of -50% heal over 10 seconds now we have doubled the debuff and increases duration by 50%. Nuff said.
Also new infusion of light. Yeah, excellent, nerf me baby one more time.
The following two weeks till blizz un-nerfs will be painful indeed for Holy.
Nerfbat hurts like japanese hornets inside your eyeball

[Necrox]

Well I've already said I'm hanging up my Holy gear and going Ret come the expansion.
I would like to thank Blizzard for making that decission more justifiable to my guild every day ^_^ And now I wont have to get 3 gear sets, Tank and Ret is enough! Awesome!

Considering that the ret gear has no int at 80, the JotW change is a buff. You'd have to have over 8k mana or so for it to be nerf, so it's only killing it for Holies, whom we can see is a dying breed now anyway.

I have also before said that Glyph of Flash of Light is pretty good for Ret, and could be situationally good for Holy (reglyph in town before specific fights), but with the newest change the situational value would not be worth it for any fight, so that clears that up ;D
Makes it easy to no choose that glyph (except maybe for PvP healing which I care nothing about) so I can focus on some raw damage and let all the real healers (the other guys who has HoT's and AoE heals) sort out my health loss from SoM/SoB.

It looks like Holy will be the new loladin, Ret is being vindicated :P

[Yso]

The only thing that's positive is that Blizz nerfed us before the release this time. :-X

Where do you want to take us Blizz? ???

[Val3rim]

hmmm

what is everyone complaining about actually

pvp:
druids are the only ones wich were able to innervate theirselves in pvp and the
pvp gear didnt or almost didnt have spirit so not much of a YIPIKAYEEEEEE benefit either

but hey we learned how to deal with that keep the pressure high and make him heal a lot

giving us the divine plea wich gives us the biggest advantage of all on mana regen in pvp wouldnt be fair towards other classes, beside it wont help you much if you dont survive, i think you survivability is more of your concern in pvp than mana regen tbh

pve wise:

seriously i heal at muru wich is overall a very healing intensive fight without a shadow priest r10 holy light having nearly 40% spell crit and 240mp5 while casting for about 6 min straight using mana pots, oils, and mana food
i have crit rating of 54% average during that fight. Even so im OOM when he dies but than again my healing reached 500k on a single target and i kept my tank alive, so im more than satisfied

now lets proceed towards WoTLK i saw lots of spellpower gear have huge crit rating as well.
so if i would heal and use Divine plea without the nerf on CD man there is no way i will go OOM and lets say oh well gimme an awesome SP and resto shaman as well, than there would appear a huuuuuge smile on my face.

thats what happened to the illumination nerf as well, because with huge amount of crit it was possible not to go OOM.
and i remembered that it was the same situation OMG WHY NERFING ILLUMINATION!!111
but we learned to deal with it.

its just to prevent that holy paladins abuse divine plea, and to rely on it as if it is their base mana regen, well it isnt.

i agree that its more a retri spell, when your farming single JoTW helps a lot but in a 25 man raid this will be a different story so yes divine plea would be great addition.

dont flame me about this post its just the way how i experience this.
use a disadvantage to your advantage by adapting.

Val